mbishop changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | Grab Ocaml 3.10.0 from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html (featuring new camlp4 and more!)
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<slack101> about to make a daemon in ocaml
<slack101> is thier an exec() command in ocaml ?
<Smerdyakov> OCaml has no commands.
<slack101> i didnt mean that
<slack101> function
<Smerdyakov> Have you looked at the standard library documentation?
<slack101> Smerdyakov, downloading now
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<ZabaQ> Is there a standard function to splice off the front of a string? Something like String.right name 4 - which returns name with the first 4 characters chopped off?
<ZabaQ> (i can't find one in the reference manual).
<rwmjones> no, but it's easy enough to write one
<rwmjones> something like this ...
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<rwmjones> let right str i = let n = String.length str in String.sub str i (n-i) ;;
<xavierbot> val right : string -> int -> string = <fun>
<rwmjones> right "testing" 4 ;;
<xavierbot> - : string = "ing"
<rwmjones> right "tes" 4 ;;
<xavierbot> Exception: Invalid_argument "String.sub".
<rwmjones> seems to do what you want?
<ZabaQ> Yes, thx.
<rwmjones> extlib has some more advanced string functions
<ZabaQ> I didn't know about extlib: that was worth knowing. Thx.
<ZabaQ> About how long does it take for a competent C++ programmer to pick up O'Caml? I'm having syntax adjustment pains..
<rwmjones> a month or so? guess it depends how fast you learn ...
<rwmjones> try to avoid using objects would be my advice
<ZabaQ> Yes, I'm deliberately steering myself away from loops and references, trying to pick up a more functional style.
<ZabaQ> And I suspect I'm under-using pattern matching, as yet.
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<Oatmeat|umn> Is there a way to declare the expected number of shift/reduce conflicts in an ocamlyacc grammar in order to supress the warning?
<rwmjones> Oatmeat|umn, no, looking at the source (at least for 3.09.3) there does not seem to be a way to suppress this warning
<rwmjones> and ocamlyacc doesn't understand %expect either
<Oatmeat|umn> ok, thanks... I'll just do without it then
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* slack101 yawns
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<slack101> looks like optimized ocaml code reallly is neck to neck with C++ code
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<slack101> is it possible to optimize asm code that ocaml produces ?
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<mbishop> I read once where someone said the code ocamlopt produced was better than their hand crafted ASM, so I'm not sure there is much to optimize
<mbishop> at least, nothing that you can't turn off (bounds checking and such)
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<slack101> anyone there ?
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<slack101> i need to make a daemon that clients cna connect to a start a command
<slack101> should i use a single process/thread
<slack101> or fork it off for every new connection or use multiple threads or what ?
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* rwmjones_ suggests looking at ocamlnet
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<DB42> hi, anybody here?
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<DB42> i have a problem with a program written in ocaml
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<DB42> and i only know ML :)
<rwmjones_> DB42, hi
<DB42> hi
<DB42> i dont know even what to ask :)
<Smerdyakov> Please don't use "ML" in a sense that excludes OCaml.
<Smerdyakov> Perhaps you meant "Standard ML."
<DB42> yeah standard ML :)
<Smerdyakov> No, not "standard ML." "Standard ML." Proper noun.
<DB42> anybody here has experience with socket communication in OCAML ?
<DB42> OCaml :|
<mbishop> Ocaml is also acceptable
<rwmjones_> DB42 yes - what do you want to do?
<DB42> i have a program now
<DB42> which sends ip multicast messages
<DB42> but it sends them on the wrong network interface on the system
<DB42> and i'm trying to figure out how to cause it to select the correct one
<slack101> i dont think ocamlnet is what i need
<DB42> rwmjones: any ideas ?
<DB42> ok, i found the piece of code that is in charge of the ip multicast msgs
<DB42> ok, i found the bug
<DB42> now i need a clue fixing it
<DB42> i'll pastebin the realted code
<DB42> as you can see, Arge.host_ip is the ip of the interface required, but Hsys.bind sock (Hsys.inet_any ()) port ; doesn't use that information
<DB42> how do i tell bind to use that host_ip if it is defined and inet_any if not ?
<slack101> wow that ocamlnet thing sure is a little network package huh
<slack101> has al ittle bit of everything
<DB42> anybody/
<DB42> ?
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<DB42> tell me if this is corret
<DB42> i nede to replace "Hsys.bind sock (Hsys.inet_any ()) port ;" with "Hsys.bind sock addr port ;" ?
<DB42> also what are .mli files ?
<pango_> DB42: files containing a module interface
<slack101> DB42, its really better to just wait till someone comes along then ask for help ;)
<slack101> like now :P
<DB42> there werre a few people taking
<DB42> talking
<DB42> ok
<DB42> i've recompiled the code
<Smerdyakov> slack101, you're wrong.
<DB42> now it should work
<DB42> i'll try it
<DB42> would be cool if it works :)
<Smerdyakov> slack101, people don't feel compelled to flood the channel with "I don't knows" if they really have no experience with the subject at hand.
<slack101> true
<slack101> how do memory leaks start / whats the best way to find them ?
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<Smerdyakov> Do you understand what a memory leak is in a garbage-collected language?
<mbishop> an outrage, that's what it is
<slack101> never asked / never looked ;)
<Smerdyakov> Then finding out is your first task.
<slack101> i thought any language could leak
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<Smerdyakov> And you thought that without knowing what a memory leak is? Not very intellectually honest, eh?
<slack101> lol
<DB42> yey
<DB42> i fixed the bug
<DB42> wow, i'm proud of myself
<DB42> a big projects with lots of dirs and files, and i managed to find te bug
<DB42> and fix it :)
<slack101> well im guessssing what it is .....in a language such as C where you set memory allocations etc that you mess up and either dont free something or ya
<Smerdyakov> OCaml has no freeing, so obviously a definition based on "not freeing" won't work here.
<slack101> hmm
<slack101> can you access memory in ocaml ?
<DB42> not nullifing references
<DB42> so the gc thinks you still need it
<DB42> so doesn't free it
<Smerdyakov> Idiomatic OCaml programmers have no "nullification of references," either.
<Smerdyakov> s/programmers/programs
<slack101> can you do memory allocation manually without the garbage collector ?
<Smerdyakov> I and many others try to avoid imperative code wherever possible.
<Smerdyakov> And "nullification" sounds imperative to me.
<Smerdyakov> slack101, no.
<Smerdyakov> slack101, the answer is really "yes" because you have a C FFI, but that's probably not the kind of answer you want.
<slack101> soo all memory stuff has to be done automatically ?
<slack101> through the GC ?
<Smerdyakov> Yes, and the language semantics doesn't require you to think about things like "memory."
<slack101> i see
<slack101> how accurate is the GC ?
<slack101> /well does it handle memory
<Smerdyakov> Read a survey paper on garbage collectors and you'll begin to be able to understand an accurate answer to that.
<DB42> well
<DB42> going to sleep
<DB42> good night all
<DB42> and thanks for the moral support ?
<DB42> i'm submitting the bug fix to the author now
<slack101> Smerdyakov, i was lookign for a it does a swell job compared to blah blah
<DB42> after verifing it works
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<Smerdyakov> slack101, I have no such simple answers for you. Almost all garbage collectors are based on simple heap structure reachability, though.
<slack101> i see
<mbishop> ocaml's garbage collector is generational, right?
<slack101> i havent really looked into anything like that its there so i use it
<mbishop> that's the only collection scheme that ever made sense to me
<pango_> mbishop: yes, 2 generations
* Ober cracks the ocaml book for his first script.
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<Smerdyakov> Bleh. Don't call OCaml programs "scripts. ":P
<slack101> if anyone cares i did use ocaml on a pretty big project, Insurace company
<slack101> typo
<slack101> insurance *
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<slack101> boss liked the language and will donate 30 percent of restituon money to the ocaml project
<slack101> rougly 20-30 k ish
<Smerdyakov> "restituon"?
<Smerdyakov> And does the project accept donations?
<slack101> oh it doesnt ?
<Smerdyakov> It's a question.
<slack101> i will tell him that
<slack101> o
<Smerdyakov> You'll tell him that I asked a question?
<slack101> lol dude
<slack101> back off dude seriously
<slack101> i havent said one word to you and you act like what we call a champeye
<slack101> its hot to be in a bad mood
<Smerdyakov> No, you're being confusing, and I'm trying to get this conversation back into making sense.
<Smerdyakov> I don't know what the status of OCaml is re: donations.
<slack101> 99.99999 percent of open srouce projects accept some kind of donations
<Smerdyakov> But the project is largely a _research_ project. Licensing doesn't give arbitrary open source dogooders a way to contribute directly.
<rwmjones_> slack101 is that troll from a few weeks back - I think he was calling himself slacker403
<Smerdyakov> OCaml is a project of a French national research lab, funded by the government.
<Smerdyakov> (the French government)
<slack101> i did not know it was directly funded by the french ogvernment
<Smerdyakov> It's far from clear to me that there is any avenue for donations to a team of PhDs.
<pango_> rwmjones: and many more nicks before that ;)
<Smerdyakov> By the way, this is one reason why I bet against OCaml in the long run. Bad social arrangement.
<slack101> lol
<slack101> im out
<slack101> rwmjones, you argued speed did not matter REMEMBER ?
<rwmjones_> Smerdyakov, you may be right about that, but remember that it's open source so could be forked if for instance they decided to stop developing
<slack101> i siad it did i still used it and it worked
<rwmjones_> s/developing/developing it/ (where did that final word go?)
<Smerdyakov> rwmjones, but if they keep developing for decades but keep making choices favoring papers instead of products, then that's unlikely to happen.
<slack101> Irc has and always will never changed rude people
<rwmjones_> Smerdyakov, that is also a danger .. it's not happening too much at the moment though
<Smerdyakov> slack101, learn English, please.
<slack101> where you live ?
<Smerdyakov> Question marks never have spaces before them in English.
<slack101> i will ask again where you from ?
<Smerdyakov> That's very easy for you to determine for yourself, and I don't want to talk to you, so I leave that detective work as your sole option.
<slack101> lol
<rwmjones_> heh heh, get your mom to send the legal letters to Jane St :-)
<Ober> good to seek slack101 trolls here too... :(
<slack101> its ridiculous
<rwmjones_> you can send ones to me c/o Red Hat :-)
<slack101> i love how non native english speakers love to correct your english
<slack101> and if it matters I live in Miami Florida a city in south eastern usa
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<Ober> slack101: cubano?
<slack101> no
<Ober> that explains why you troll ##c too... #si
<slack101> i dont NOT troll in ##c
<slack101> lol
<slack101> me and Zhivango just dont get along
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<slack101> its a personal thing and he makes it a channel one
<slack101> Ober, 2ndly theres no cubans in miami just americans , maybe americans of cuban heritage but never does someone classify themself as cubano
<slack101> but to play devils advocate about 60 percent of miami is of cuban decent
<mbishop> Wait, you mean ##C has another use other than to troll?
<Ober> nahh just this same guy getting banned for intolerance :P
<slack101> no
<slack101> god man
<slack101> you dont know Zhivango i do
<rwmjones_> xavierbot, please restart yourself
<xavierbot> Objective Caml version 3.10.0
<xavierbot> Camlp4 Parsing version 3.10.0
<rwmjones_> Random.int;;
<xavierbot> - : int -> int = <fun>
<mbishop> I usually just go in ##C and ask them why C sucks
<rwmjones_> Random.int 100;;
<xavierbot> - : int = 34
<rwmjones_> good ...
<mbishop> but in a discreete manner
<rwmjones_> Random.float 1234.;;
<xavierbot> - : float = 1019.30075834609124
<mbishop> Random.self_init();;
<xavierbot> - : unit = ()
<mbishop> Random.int();;
<xavierbot> Characters 11-13:
<xavierbot> Random.int();;
<xavierbot> ^^
<xavierbot> This expression has type unit but is here used with type int
<mbishop> whoops heh
<mbishop> Random.int;;
<xavierbot> - : int -> int = <fun>
* rwmjones_ considers offering a prize to the first person to find an exploit
<mbishop> Random.int 100;;
<xavierbot> - : int = 60
<rwmjones_> Random.int 100;;
<xavierbot> - : int = 57
<mbishop> Random.int 10000000;;
<xavierbot> - : int = 3838629
<pango_> rwmjones: did you add other modules beside Random ?
<rwmjones_> no, just Random
<rwmjones_> I think the version on the website is up to date apart from that single addition
<mbishop> List.iter print_endline [1; 2; 3];;
<xavierbot> Characters 26-27:
<xavierbot> List.iter print_endline [1; 2; 3];;
<xavierbot> ^
<xavierbot> This expression has type int but is here used with type string
<slack101> anyways to hot ot be inside and Ober i do not troll in C as i said that dude and me dont get along from way back
<mbishop> List.iter print_int [1; 2; 3];;
<xavierbot> 123- : unit = ()
<rwmjones_> List.iter print_endline (List.map string_of_int [ 1; 2; 3 ]) ;;
<xavierbot> 1
<xavierbot> 2
<xavierbot> 3
<xavierbot> - : unit = ()
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<pango_> Interesting. I didn't know about Random.State
<rwmjones_> it's a functor -- never used it though
<Ober> slack101: aja chupabicho
<slack101> speak spanish ?
<slack101> corvoavoduane ?
<pango_> rwmjones: doesn't look like a functor, just a plain module
<pango_> I could have used it to make some multithreaded benchmark a bit more deterministic
* rwmjones_ looks again
<slack101> Ober, guess not
<rwmjones_> pango_, oh yes, you're right :-)
<slack101> threads look like of iffy in ocaml
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<pango_> Xavier Leroy wrote the first version of LinuxThreads, that must be the reason ;)
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<leo037> 1;;
<xavierbot> - : int = 1
<leo037> :)
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<mbishop> ~1;;
<xavierbot> - : int = 1
<mbishop> heh
<mbishop> -1;;
<xavierbot> - : int = -1
<Smerdyakov> 0 / 0;;
<xavierbot> Exception: Division_by_zero.
<Smerdyakov> 0.0 / 0.0;;
<xavierbot> Characters 1-4:
<xavierbot> 0.0 / 0.0;;
<xavierbot> ^^^
<xavierbot> This expression has type float but is here used with type int
<Smerdyakov> 0.0 /. 0.0;;
<xavierbot> - : float = nan
<leo037> 1;;2
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<rwmjones_> 1-2;;
<xavierbot> - : int = -1
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<noteventime> This may be a ridiculous question, but I keep getting "Reference to undefined global `Sdl'". I include the Sdl module in the beginning of the file, and sdl.mli e.t.c. seem to exist in /usr/lib/ocaml (where the compiler should be able to find them, shouldn't it?) Is there something else I have to do
<noteventime> I'm still very new to OCaml
<Smerdyakov> Do you understand the difference between header files and libraries in C?
<noteventime> Yes
<Smerdyakov> Here you are doing the equivalent of including the header without linking the library.
<noteventime> Same thing like .ml and .mli?
<Smerdyakov> No.
<noteventime> Ok
<noteventime> Only header source?
<noteventime> I link it to the CMO?
<Smerdyakov> Well, maybe "same thing like .ml and .mli" is accurate here.
<Smerdyakov> You need to link with the .cma or .cmxa file, if it's a library.
<noteventime> Ohh
<noteventime> Can I do that in one compiler call, or do I have to compile my files and then link?
<Smerdyakov> Either works.
<noteventime> Do I need to know if the library was compiled with ocamlopts or ocamlc?
<Smerdyakov> Yes. You can never combine code compiled with different of those two.
<noteventime> I wasn't sure if the libraries always were stored as bytecode or not
<Smerdyakov> At this point I'm thinking you should be reading the manual on the basic compilation tools.
<noteventime> Yea
<noteventime> Was just that everything was going so well this far :-)
<noteventime> Thanks for the help
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<slack101> anyone here have experince with threads and ocaml ?
<pango_> a bit
<slack101> well i answered my own question
<slack101> :P
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<slack101> i was wondering if unix/windows compatibilit ywas good
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<rwmjones_> noteventime, what is glcaml?
<noteventime> OpenGL bindings for OCaml
<rwmjones_> so it's same or different from ocaml lablgl?
<rwmjones_> (which I have used ....)
<noteventime> glcaml supports OpenGL up to version 2.1
<noteventime> I think lablgl only goes up to 1.2
<noteventime> And (according to the author of glcaml) lablgl is no longer maintained
<noteventime> Oh
<rwmjones_> hmmm
<noteventime> No, skip that last thing :-)
<noteventime> Confused it with another binding
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<noteventime> The real reason for me using it was that it was the first one I found when searching
<rwmjones_> in that case I don't know ... lablgl seems to be better supported, but ...
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<noteventime> rwmjones_: Does LablGL try to make the interface use some OCaml idioms, or is it just a direct wrapper?
<noteventime> Becuase that would be a reason for me to switch
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<rwmjones_> I'm not sure I understand the question
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<noteventime> rwmjones_: The API of LablGL, is it identical to the C API?
<noteventime> Or does LablGL make it fit better into OCaml
<rwmjones_> it's pretty similar to the C API
<noteventime> No reason to switch then, not at the moment anyway
<noteventime> I'm just playing around with it, so it doesn't matter if I have to throw away the code later
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