mbishop changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | Grab Ocaml 3.10.0 from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html (featuring new camlp4 and more!)
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<slacker403> has anyone here ever used any ocaml for any web stuff ?
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<slacker403> i might do something in it
<slacker403> but it will require to send a cooie and i dont see ocamlnet or anything providing that , will most likely make me do it myself ey ?
<slacker403> actually found it
<slacker403> ah kinda cool
<slacker403> wow ocamlnet looks really cool
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<slacker403> the ocamlnet lib is really nice lots of cool stuff
<rumpl> :)
<slacker403> im really glad they keep updating it v2 adds aot more
<rumpl> Could you give me some beginner exercices to do in ocaml? I started it two days ago, for now I'm only reading docs and stuff, but that's too slow, I would like to try myself in ocaml. So, know any good exercice for a beginner?
<Smerdyakov> You should be learning from a book that suggests exercises.
<slacker403> i learned from making a jabber client
<Smerdyakov> Either that or you should be learning by already knowing what it is you mean to develop with OCaml and getting started on it.
<slacker403> but i think i annoyed the hell out of pango and everyone else
<rumpl> Haven't found any. They all go on about types and stuff.
<Smerdyakov> But if you aren't that self-directed yet in programming, then you should find a book that suggests exercises.
<lucca> rumpl: try doing something practical that interests you
<Smerdyakov> How does "going on about types" preclude suggesting exercises?
<slacker403> i have a ebook of a popular ocaml book ;)
<rumpl> I don't have anything in mind, just that in september I will be using it in university, and all the other kids already know ocaml
<slacker403> learning the fundamentls and doing something yourself is far better
<slacker403> ocamltutorial.org or w/e is pretty cool too
<slacker403> the o reielly ocaml book is good too
<Smerdyakov> All the other kids already know OCaml? My goodness, what enlightened country do you live in! :D
<slacker403> as is grab a PDF of the documentation
<rumpl> In third year i switched to math, now I'm back to programming, and in third year, they do ocaml. I did Topology.
<slacker403> and i have a ebook of a popular ocaml book that is good too kinda warez'd that one :\
<rumpl> I'm in France.
<Smerdyakov> Has anyone in here tried reserving an ICFP hotel room?
<Smerdyakov> I think I found a bug in the reservation script.
<slacker403> Ocaml is fairly straightforward and well documented
<slacker403> btw if anyone cares ......python sucks :D man that lang has drove me crazy
<Smerdyakov> slacker403, you really claim to be a native English speaker, and yet you just wrote "has drove me"?
<slacker403> ;)
<slacker403> has driven me
<slacker403> well no wtf
<slacker403> drove me crazy is common to say here
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<slacker403> is driving me crazy would sound better but yea
<Smerdyakov> Not with "has" in front, unless you live in Doofusville.
<slacker403> i live in Miami Florida usa but yea
<slacker403> i ws typing fast i ddint know this was an english classroom ?
<slacker403> and where do you live Smerdyakov UK ?
<Smerdyakov> Oh, no. Don't worry about how hard it is for people to parse what you write. Only Commie Pinkos think that IRC is about two-way communication.
<rumpl> So you'r suggesting that I continue reading the books I am now reading? I remember that when I started C I wrote like my_strlen, my_strcpy, my_strcmp and stuff.
<Smerdyakov> No, I'm American.
<slacker403> which country ?
<Smerdyakov> slacker403, "American" is pretty standardized as meaning "USAian."
<slacker403> depends
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, if your classmates learned OCaml in a course, then look up the exercises assigned in the course.
<slacker403> i lived in brazil for many years
<slacker403> what books are you reading ?
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<slacker403> i just gave you all the books you need
<slacker403> but then again i catch myself using ocaml as an imperative language more then functional sooo yea dont listen to me :D
<rumpl> Smerdyakov, I did, but they moved pretty much everything, the only thing I managed to find is some exercices with ocamllex and ocamlyacc, but I think I'll do that later
* slacker403 cries
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, contact the instructor to explain your situation. Ask him for suggestions.
<slacker403> for one http://www.ocaml-tutorial.org/
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, you can't just ask about "exercises" in general. Everyone has his own context of what is worth trying.
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, if what you _really_ want is to simulate the training of your classmates, then you should go to the people who trained them for suggestions.
<slacker403> the last 2 have exercises
<rumpl> The people eho trained them went on vacation. It's July, they will be back in september.
<rumpl> Thank you.
<slacker403> and again i have a ebook of a popular ocaml book you are free to have as well
<slacker403> with all those resources you should have no more questions ;)
<rumpl> Am I bothering you? :)
<slacker403> naw :)
<rumpl> So, if I wanted this popluar book, how would you give it to me? mail?
<slacker403> i will upload to sendspace
<rumpl> Ok.
<Smerdyakov> Those French. Always breaking our God-given copyright laws.
<Smerdyakov> ;P
<rumpl> Acctually, i wanted some exercices because, when people ask me to help them with C I know what kind of stuff to give them so that they learn to manage memory/ pointers and all the exciting stuff you can find in C.
<slacker403> its actually a hard book to find ish
<Smerdyakov> Any instance of someone suggesting an exercise to another person in informal conversation is a failure of educational process.
<rumpl> Can you repeat that?
<Smerdyakov> You either do it the traditional way and have exercises chosen with care to fit with the structure of a text, or you're learning a language because you want to _use_ it, and it's completely obvious what you want to code.
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, here's a rephrasing: it's no good to suggest exercises to people.
<rumpl> I don't agree with you. Take C for example, if someone wants to learn it, then he must know how to manage pointers, so you give his exercices with poitnter, he must know how to manage memory, so you give hime mallo/free based exercices etc.
<rumpl> After that, he is free to do whatever he wants. And go in any direction he wants.
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<Smerdyakov> No, _a_textbook_ gives him exercises involving pointers, included in the text at points where it's certain that the needed material has already been introduced.
<Smerdyakov> If you make stuff up without knowing what he's learned, you're likely to leave him worse off then he started.
<slacker403> i am programming something atm rumpl and my shit is being stupid and i cant access my windows partition on here atm but if you stick around i will be sure ot get it for you in a few hours
<rumpl> Well, a mini project can be a good way to make him search for what he needs.
<slacker403> rumpl, if you would like i could upload my ebook collection ;) lots and lots of useful stuff
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, this "mini project" will almost certainly slow down his learning experience compared to following exercises integrated into a text.
<Smerdyakov> What makes _real_ projects superior to book exercises is the student's actual interest in the finished product. Your "mini projects" don't have that property, and so they combine the worst of both worlds.
<slacker403> i say go over a book spend a few days on it and do what you need to do with it
<slacker403> if you are just learning to learn
<slacker403> read all the books carefully
<slacker403> :D
<Smerdyakov> "Learning to learn" is generally horribly inefficient. You'd be much better served by pretending you actually had a use in mind.
<rumpl> How come the student can't have interest in a mini project?
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, he will probably only have appropriate interest in projects he picks himself.
<rumpl> You can't always choose to do what you like.
<Smerdyakov> Frankly, people who disagree with that tend to end up happier. ;)
<rumpl> And even if you don't like it, the person who gave it to you most certainly gave it because you can learn something of it.
<rumpl> :)
<Smerdyakov> Programming doesn't work like that. It's too involved to succeed it if you aren't loving it.
<slacker403> get a money incentive
<Smerdyakov> s/it if/at if
<slacker403> agree to do some freelance and do it in ocaml there you go
<Smerdyakov> slacker403, unlikely to work well without careful consideration of the social context of your assignment.
<rumpl> Money incentive?
<slacker403> Smerdyakov, i wouldnt say i love programming but at time i find it mildly interesting
<Smerdyakov> slacker403, then you're probably not in the top tier of programming ability.
<slacker403> i mean
<slacker403> i do it for the money
<slacker403> anyways python sucks really bad man that thing is bad
<rumpl> Crypto guys seem to like it.
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, they probably haven't used any ML or Haskell.
<rumpl> Maybe.
<rumpl> Does Haskell have support for big ints?
<slacker403> i like ocaml syntax better then any other language
<Smerdyakov> What do you mean by "support for"?
<slacker403> my fav langs are Ocaml Lua PHP and of course C
<rumpl> Hum.. sorry, does haskell have 32 bit ints or has a "class" of ints that can go further?
<rumpl> Like a bigint lib.
<Smerdyakov> So you're asking if a bigint library exists? That isn't a property of Haskell the language.
<rumpl> Python has plain ints, and long ints that's what I'm talking about, does haskell have a type of int that offers unlimited precision.
<Smerdyakov> Haskell isn't so crappy a language that you couldn't implement that as a library in any case.
<slacker403> rumpl, dont mention python in here
<rumpl> Sorry.
<slacker403> that thing wasted me 2 weeks
<Smerdyakov> So I don't think the question is all that important.
<Smerdyakov> slacker403, after you already mentioned it 5 times...
<slacker403> Smerdyakov, just in case yoiu forgot
<slacker403> you*
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, I don't know if Haskell has any support for infinite-precision integers that _isn't_ just in a library. I think Haskell is expressive enough that there is nothing to be gained by adding special language features, except possibly the ability to write integer constants bigger than 32 bits.
<rumpl> If you want to write a quick crypto hack, it is important, if you must use some external libraries to do something, it is important, I think that the fact that python has these long ints makes it so popular in the crypto society.
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> aren't the crypto guys concerned in performance or this kind of things ?
<rumpl> Sure.
<Smerdyakov> "Concerned in performance"? Pull yourself together, man.
<bluestorm_> :D
<Smerdyakov> Oh, I thought it was slacker403 saying that. Never mind. ;)
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<bluestorm_> Smerdyakov: btw. i have to say i'm always highly intersted in what you say
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<rumpl> I don't know python, but I guess it's performant if they use it so much.
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<Smerdyakov> bluestorm_, well, thanks. :-)
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> i'm a little frustrated to express that in english
<slacker403> rumpl, same as php perl etc
<bluestorm_> but you're special way of being helpul while really mean is fun
<slacker403> ocaml is on a c++ level
<slacker403> but yea
<Smerdyakov> I have to object to the "really mean" part. :P
<bluestorm_> rumpl: if you're not fluent with list manipulation and/or recursion, you could try to code some of the List functions
<bluestorm_> it's 1) not so easy 2) a good way to remeber them
<bluestorm_> +m
<rumpl> +m?
<rumpl> Ah, remember.
<rumpl> Anyway, thanks for the advices, the links, and everything else, slacker403 if I come here tomorow will you have that popular book for me? :)
<slacker403> yea no problem
<rumpl> Thanks,
<Smerdyakov> rumpl, in case it wasn't clear, it would probably be illegal to accept it from him.
<slacker403> i would geti t now but i got to restart and i am programming some stuff right now ;)
<rumpl> Smerdyakov, yeah I know, I haven't accepted it yet :)
<rumpl> Ok ok, no rush. :)
<bluestorm_> (which book ?)
<slacker403> a few
<rumpl> A popular book.
<slacker403> apress pratical ocaml and excercises for one
<slacker403> typos
<slacker403> :P
<bluestorm_> hm
<slacker403> apress or aprex something
<bluestorm_> rumpl:
<Smerdyakov> I've heard that this book is genuinely crappy.
<slacker403> lol
<slacker403> its the best selling ocaml book
<thesoko> hey, can someone help me with compiling a C interface?
<slacker403> but W?E
<Smerdyakov> That doesn't mean it isn't crappy.
<slacker403> ok
<slacker403> dude anything i say is bad Smerdyakov
<rumpl> Hey, I'm at the jussieu university
<bluestorm_> ;D
<Smerdyakov> I'm only repeating what I've heard. Never anything good about that book, and several bad things.
<Smerdyakov> I've never read it myself.
<bluestorm_> thesoko: hm
<bluestorm_> we'd need some more informations to help you
<thesoko> of course :)
<thesoko> the sample in the manual shows a curses module that looks like it needs to be uses with a compiled program
<thesoko> what would I need to do if I wanted to use my module on the CLI?
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> ocaml foo.cmo
<thesoko> I've got a quickie .mli and .c file with stubs written, but not sure how to compile it
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> by CLI you mean "from the ocaml toplevel" ?
<thesoko> yeah
<bluestorm_> then ocaml your_object_files is the way to go
<thesoko> okay, thanks
<Smerdyakov> bluestorm_, don't you need to build a custom toplevel to use your own C code?
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> i never tried that actually, but i thought the custom toplevel was just an alias for normal 'ocaml' options
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<thesoko> I think I'm still confused...
<Smerdyakov> How do you load C-compiled files into 'ocaml', then?
<Smerdyakov> They won't have any .cm* extension.
<Smerdyakov> Whereas 'ocamlmktop' has the '-cclib' option to specify them.
<thesoko> so I compiled it with ocamlc -a -o bone.cma -custom bone.mli bone_stubs.c -cclib -lbone
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> you're right
<thesoko> and then launched with ocaml bone.cma
<thesoko> but got a external function not available error :/
<Smerdyakov> thesoko, I believe that there is no way to use your own C code in 'ocaml' without building a custom toplevel with 'ocamlmktop'.
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> Smerdyakov must be right, you should try to build a toplevel
<Smerdyakov> 'ocamlmktop' is described on 'ocaml's manual page.
<bluestorm_> if you don't have any doc, it's described there too : http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/oreilly-book/html/book-ora114.html
<thesoko> okay
<Smerdyakov> Everyone has the online OCaml manual!
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> OCaml manual is not very user-friendly
<bluestorm_> at least for a first time, i think it's rather dense
<bluestorm_> wouldn't have been n00bs-aimed enough for me, at least
<thesoko> yeah, I'm quite confused by it all
<thesoko> I took a course last summer on programming languages with OCaml as the primary language we used
<thesoko> want to try and actually to do something practical with it now :)
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> who are the barbarians teaching *summer* Ocaml courses ?
<thesoko> haha, I just opted to take a summer course :)
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> while other where singing, dancing, swimming and idling on IRC
<bluestorm_> what a strange idea.
<Smerdyakov> I can tell you that I'd rather be programming than doing any of those things. Now taking a _class_ on programming, quite possibly not. :)
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> i'm sure you can be singing and programming at the same time
<Smerdyakov> Oh, I often am. Forgot about that. :-)
<thesoko> haha :)
<bluestorm_> <Succ><Succ><Zero/></Succ></Succ>
<bluestorm_> XML guys sometimes have strange ideas
<Smerdyakov> bluestorm_, aha, bigint support! ;)
<bluestorm_> :p
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<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> time to sleep
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<thesoko> I'm still getting external function is not available errors :/
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<mysty> hello
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<afei727_> Hello. Could anyone please suggest a good library for statistical computing?
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<flux> in camlidl, with your custom-provided c2ml-function, can you somehow call the generated c2ml-functions?
<flux> they have the additional argument ctx, which the custom-provided function doesn't appear to receive, due to some #define-magic..
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<Anonyme2330801> hi all
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<rwmjones> hello
<seto_g3> I have a little question in maths, very easy I think, but I don't find, it's about fourier transformation .. why : TF(exp ( -alpha * abs(t)) = TF ( exp(-alpha * t) + exp (-alpha * -t ))
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<rumpl> Hi, can anyone give me any comments about my code? http://rafb.net/p/R4lAqz88.html, and if anyone has another way of doing the print_sign function (a shorter or a better way) it would be nice to give me some tips. Thank you.
<rwmjones> rumpl, looks ok ... not quite sure what it's supposed to do that is useful, but I guess it's an exercise?
<rumpl> Yes, just truying to learn the types in ocaml.
<rwmjones> btw, you probably want to use = instead of ==
<rumpl> The manipulation and all.
<rwmjones> you rarely if ever use == in OCaml programs
<rumpl> So print_sign2 is better?
<rumpl> I'm a C programmer, so I still have some habits from there :)
<rumpl> Are the ';;' and the ';' in the right places? :)
<rwmjones> print_sign2 is better & can also be optimised more by the compiler
<rwmjones> I think you can remove all instances of ;; from that code
<rwmjones> all but the last one (last m = ...;;)
<rwmjones> if ;; preceeds a "let", "type", "class" (and a few others) then OCaml can infer that a ;; is needed and inserts one for you
<rwmjones> but there's no harm in leaving them in there
<rumpl> :) I can't remove it from this line : let m = Int (-4);;
<xavierbot> Characters 0-2:
<xavierbot> Parse error: illegal begin of top_phrase
<xavierbot> :) I can't remove it from this line : let m = Int (-4);;
<xavierbot> ^^
<rumpl> There is no let after that;
<rumpl> Hehe.
<rumpl> Ah, you already said that :) sorry, didn't sae that one
<rumpl> Thank you very much rwmjones
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> there are some redundancies
<bluestorm_> "negative" and "positive" shouldn't appear twice
<bluestorm_> and the phrase structure could be factorised as well
<bluestorm_> something like "Number %s is %s" would allow you to do that
<bluestorm_> you should for Error one time only
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> rumpl: what about a let string_of_signed = function Error -> "Error" | num -> sprintf "Numer %s is %s" .... ... ?
<bluestorm_> (actually that's still not right because of the SignError case)
<bluestorm_> (btw., couldn't you say Error is Negative ? :-° )
<rumpl> Hold on. Reading.
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<rumpl> How can I do a Number %s when it's not a string?
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> you have to stringify it yourself
<bluestorm_> :)
<rumpl> Ok. :)
<bluestorm_> i proposed %s because it can factor both %d and %f uses
<rumpl> Do you like this better? http://rafb.net/p/m4vttl31.html
<rumpl> Hold on.
<rumpl> I like this better: http://rafb.net/p/ZaCweo28.html
<slacker403> rumpl, good day\
<rumpl> Hi.
<slacker403> i will getthose books for if you want
<rumpl> That would be nice yes.
<slacker403> you want some other books too ?
<slacker403> i can make a collection ;)
<rumpl> If you think that they could help me then yes please :)
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<slacker403> i think they are pretty good books with alot of exercises
<rumpl> Great.
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<bluestorm_> hm rumpl
<bluestorm_> these programs are not equivalent to your first one anymore
<bluestorm_> the error handling is not really god
<rumpl> True.
<rumpl> How could I make him print "Number error is error" ? What should I pass to the function?
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<bluestorm_> hm ?
<rumpl> No no, it's ok.
<bluestorm_> Error ?
<rumpl> I'm raising exceptions now. So it prints out Error is there is an error.
<rumpl> Why aren't they equivalent? They do the same thing, print out : Number %s is %s, num, positive|negative.
<bluestorm_> i was talking of http://rafb.net/p/R4lAqz88.html and your new ones
<rumpl> Well the new one has still the print_sign function that does the same thing.
<bluestorm_> but the error handling is different, unless you use the exception you were talking about
<bluestorm_> hm
<rumpl> Yes I use exceptions now, here: http://rafb.net/p/UiEust69.html comments please.
<rumpl> hm?
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