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<Tac-Tics>
How suitable is Ocaml for web programming?
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<mbishop>
There is Ocsygen or whatever
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<hcarty>
Tac-Tics: The ocamlnet library also has some cgi/fcgi routines
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<Tac-Tics>
yeah, I saw that
<Tac-Tics>
I was wondering what the suitability of Ocaml is overall
<Tac-Tics>
the ease of use with libraries, how hard it is to set up and learn, etc with respect to web programming
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<hcarty>
My (very limited) experience with OCaml web programming is that it's easier than C, not as easy as Perl
<hcarty>
But I only toyed with it for ~20 minutes, and that was a while ago
<Tac-Tics>
I've never done perl, so I can't really compare
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<free_penguin>
beautiful
<free_penguin>
my first impression of reading a text about functional programming and caml language
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<free_penguin>
herro
<free_penguin>
excuz me
<free_penguin>
why in ocaml unary AND is written '&'?
<free_penguin>
why in ocaml unary AND is written '&'?
<free_penguin>
why in ocaml unary AND is written '&'?
<flux>
bye.
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<flux>
ocaml doesn't have an unary and, though..
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<free_penguin>
i meant bitwise AND is written '&'
<free_penguin>
is this true
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<free_penguin>
i meant logical AND is written '&'
<free_penguin>
is this true?
<flux>
how about a bit less repetition? but yes, that is true.
<free_penguin>
srry
<free_penguin>
i thought & is bitwise and?
<flux>
no, land is bitwise and
<free_penguin>
ok ty
<free_penguin>
what is unary and?
<flux>
I don't have the slightest idea
<free_penguin>
tyvm
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<fremo>
flux: I posted on the ML about the nul byte thing but nobody but nobody seems to care about...
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<jonafan>
asdf
<flux>
I concur.
<jonafan>
so
<jonafan>
do you guys put #use statements in your files?
<jonafan>
cuz i used to
<jonafan>
but i don't anymore
<flux>
nope
<jonafan>
what's the usual strategy for loading files then?
<jonafan>
i wrote a file called "load.ml" that loads everything
<flux>
I build binaries, everything is loaded in to that
<flux>
and I also use makefiles to build such binaries
<jonafan>
i figure if i can just load everything once in a file like that, no problems
<jonafan>
one place for sorting out that crap
<flux>
hmm
<jonafan>
man, i had some weird errors
<flux>
do you have code that uses SomeModule.somevalue and another file needs to be #used before that can be #used?
<jonafan>
and being a newbie still, i tried to fix it in the code
<flux>
sounds evil to me
<jonafan>
no, i was getting like
<jonafan>
Type here is "thistype" but it is being used with type "thistype"
<flux>
I think that can happen if you use the same file twice; the types will have the same name but won't be the same
<jonafan>
yeah
<flux>
I would definitely suggest you to look on how to write separate .ml-files and compile them together with ocamlc
<jonafan>
the weird thing is
<jonafan>
i got it all to load okay at one point by removing a reference to something completely unrelated
<jonafan>
which sent me off in the completely wrong direction for fixing the actual problem
<jonafan>
so yeah, #use is bad
<jonafan>
ocamlc compiles to bytecode, right?
<flux>
yes
<jonafan>
and therefore still requires ocaml to be installed
<jonafan>
but ocamlopt produces executables that do not require anything
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<bluestorm_>
i think you can do standalone executables with ocamlc -custom
<jonafan>
ah neat
<jonafan>
but what is the advantage over ocamlopt
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<psnively>
Portability.
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<Tac-Tics>
are there any good tutorials for using ocaml mysql?
<psnively>
No. One of OCaml's major weaknesses, IMHO, is not having a good database story.
<psnively>
If I had my druthers, OCaml-ODBC would get some love, and then someone would do something like HaskellDB on top of it.
<Tac-Tics>
sadness
<Tac-Tics>
I was interested in trying to use ocaml for a new webapp
<Tac-Tics>
but it would be heavy on the mysql
<psnively>
Oh. Unfortunately, right now, OCaml sucks for web apps (mostly because of the DB issue; Ocsigen looks nice, but I don't think it's ever been used in production).
<bluestorm_>
hum
<bluestorm_>
is HaskellDB the thing whose everybody says "where is the doc ?" ?
<bluestorm_>
hm
<bluestorm_>
iirc there was a "i'm going to create an Haskell blog" guy, and he gave up
<Tac-Tics>
bluestorm_ almost definitely.... it's really hard to find
<bluestorm_>
hm
<bluestorm_>
i'm not trying to say OCaml is better in this area
<bluestorm_>
but "something like HaskellDB" felt a little bit ironic :-'
<Tac-Tics>
well, I actually managed to get HaskellDB to work last night
<Tac-Tics>
it took me quite a few hours
<bluestorm_>
btw there is PGOCaml that looks cool
<Tac-Tics>
but the same was not true for ocaml ;-)
<bluestorm_>
(that static typing thing is interesting at least)
<Tac-Tics>
what's PGOcaml?
<flux>
bluestorm_, too bad dynamic queries are required in many real world operations..
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<flux>
I just use the lower level version of that, postgresql-ocaml
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<psnively>
flux: You can make dynamic queries; what tools like PGO'Caml and HaskellDB do is let you build your dynamic queries while ensuring that they're a) legal with respect to your language types, and b) legal with respect to SQL and your database schema(ta).
<psnively>
Basically, they're combinator libraries (with or without some amount of syntactic sugar).
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<flux>
psnively, pgocaml lets you do dynamic queries?
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<flux>
that's definitely great news and I'll take a new look at it
<flux>
hmh
<flux>
perhaps I misunderstood what the page is trying to say
<flux>
obviously I by dynamic queries I didn't refer to queries where just the values change, _that_ much is expected
<flux>
s/I //
<flux>
I meant actually constructing queries for example with dynamic search criteria; composing queries. can pgocaml do that?
<flux>
from reading the main page at marjis.com, I get the idea it doesn't, under the topic "hard problems"
<flux>
but perhaps it only means some especially hard cases, and it does provide means to combine queries together?
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<flux>
6.2. Can I dynamically construct SQL statements? No. Bear in mind that PG'OCAML must have access to the statement at compile-time. Therefore, you cannot build a statement dynamically from smaller pieces.
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<flux>
so no: pgocaml isn't a combinator library, which I believe haskell db is, and what would be great to have for ocaml also
<flux>
but, sleep now
<jonafan>
hey flux i think i got the whole packet thing with callbacks working
<jonafan>
well, it's not tested, but it compiles which means it's probably right!
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<psnively>
flux: That's interesting; I didn't realize that PGO'Caml generates whole statements from the PostgreSQL metadata. That does seem to be of limited utility.
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<free_penguin>
wow
<free_penguin>
caml is absolutely incredible
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