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<context>
does ocaml support network sockets without a third party library ?
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<kmeyer>
context: yes, I think so.
<context>
kk where would i get like a complete api reference for core functions and modules
<context>
the module list i see
<context>
not core functions though
<context>
im guessing id use Unix. for everthing
<kmeyer>
yeah.
<kmeyer>
there's also ocamlnet
<kmeyer>
but it's third party
<kmeyer>
I think
<context>
yeah
<kmeyer>
sorry I'm a newbie :-)
<context>
same
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<jganetsk__>
question about the ocaml garbage collector
<jganetsk__>
caml_empty_minor_heap() potentially doesn't oldify every live object
<jganetsk__>
in the minor heap
<jganetsk__>
considering major heap objects could point to minor heap objects
<tsuyoshi>
they could?
<jganetsk__>
mutable data structures
<tsuyoshi>
I thought the whole idea behind the major heap was that nothing in it pointed to the minor heap
<tsuyoshi>
on mutation, it's supposed to be moved to the minor heap
<tsuyoshi>
iirc
<jganetsk__>
that would be problematic
<jganetsk__>
wait, let me think
<jganetsk__>
so, if i have an 'a ref
<jganetsk__>
the 'a ref is itself a heap object which contains a value
<jganetsk__>
in this case, i have to move the 'a ref to the minor heap
<tsuyoshi>
I think so
<jganetsk__>
but that's impossible
<tsuyoshi>
is it?
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<flux>
tsuyoshi, how would that work, if you have a megabyte of interconnected mutable nodes, and you modify one of them; they won't all be brought back to minor heap?-o
<tsuyoshi>
isn't that what the field set macro does.. what is it called
<tsuyoshi>
Store_field()
<jganetsk__>
it's not just that, but the semantics are impossible
<jganetsk__>
here let me think of some code
<jganetsk__>
let update x y =
<jganetsk__>
x := y;;
<jganetsk__>
then i say
<jganetsk__>
i have some old ref
<jganetsk__>
z : string ref
<jganetsk__>
z is in the major heap
<jganetsk__>
and i call
<jganetsk__>
update z "hello"
<jganetsk__>
"hello" is a string in the minor heap
<jganetsk__>
z is in the major heap
<jganetsk__>
but, when i make teh assignment
<jganetsk__>
i have no idea what root is pointing to z
<jganetsk__>
if a root at all
<jganetsk__>
so i can't move the actual ref cell
<tsuyoshi>
hmm.. lemme look at the source for Store_field
<jganetsk__>
does my argument make sense?
<tsuyoshi>
Store_field calls caml_modify
<tsuyoshi>
comment for caml_modify says
<tsuyoshi>
You must use [caml_modify] to change a field of an existing shared block, unless you are sure the value being overwritten is not a shared block and the value being written is not a young block.
<tsuyoshi>
maybe it's the reverse
<tsuyoshi>
i.e. "hello" would be moved to the major heap
<jganetsk__>
i feel like you can't move somethnig from one heap to another unless you trace from the roots
<jganetsk__>
because moving something from one heap to another requires you to update all references to it
<tsuyoshi>
well, look at Modify() in memory.h
<tsuyoshi>
it places the block in caml_ref_table_block
<tsuyoshi>
er
<tsuyoshi>
caml_ref_table_ptr
<jganetsk__>
i see
<jganetsk__>
hmm
<jganetsk__>
fascinating
<jganetsk__>
ok, so that guarantees that when a minor collection happens
<jganetsk__>
it will trace through these things in the minor heap
<jganetsk__>
that are being pointed to from the major heap
<tsuyoshi>
yeah
<jganetsk__>
that's beautiful
<jganetsk__>
ocaml is beautiful
<jganetsk__>
ok, thank you!
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<tsuyoshi>
the ocaml gc is very complicated.. but it seems to be faster than e.g. boehm
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<jganetsk__>
is boehm the one for c++ ?
<jganetsk__>
because if it is, it has much less to work with than ocaml
<tsuyoshi>
boehm works with anything
<tsuyoshi>
I think they use it with most of the java runtimes
<jganetsk__>
how does boehm guarantee that the major heap doesn't point to the minor heap
<jganetsk__>
the same way?
<jganetsk__>
i don't think java is trapping destructive updates like this
<tsuyoshi>
boehm doesn't have separate heaps
<tsuyoshi>
boehm doesn't place any constraints on your code.. you can just replace malloc() with the boehm malloc() and it works
<tsuyoshi>
so I was just saying.. the ocaml gc places more constraints but I guess it's worth it
<jganetsk__>
it's not just constraints from the gc
<jganetsk__>
it's good functional programming
<jganetsk__>
making immutable default makes this ref_table thing work well
<jganetsk__>
immutability*
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<tsuyoshi>
that's true.. it would probably be a lot slower in a less functional language
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<Yoric[DT]>
hi
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<suppaman>
hello
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<suppaman>
bye
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<qwr>
let idref = ref (fun x -> x);;
<qwr>
let id = !idref;;
<qwr>
id print_endline (id "kala");;
<qwr>
This expression has type string but is here used with type string -> unit
<qwr>
is this just to make typechecking easier...
<qwr>
or is there any way how polymorphism of that id could broke type soundness?
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<qwr>
s/broke/brake/
<qwr>
s/broke/break/
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<qwr>
hmm, ok, it breaks soundness
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* JohnnyL
waves to Smerdyakov
<Smerdyakov>
If you keep saying my name just to bother me by triggering IRC client notifications, then I'll just ignore you.
<JohnnyL>
Smerdyakov, yes, you are an important man!
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<ita>
JohnnyL: stop highlighting Smerdyakov, he does not deserve it
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<JohnnyL>
ita, I just like saying hi
<JohnnyL>
ita
<ita>
still :-)
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<pippijn>
hi all
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<JohnnyL>
pippijn, HELLO!
<JohnnyL>
how are you?
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<Yoric[DT]>
Good night everyone.
* Yoric[DT]
has done enough Camlp4 for the night.
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<pippijn>
JohnnyL: great
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<Associat0r>
are there any plans of including metaocaml runtime code generation to ocaml?
<Smerdyakov>
I'd fall over if I learned that there were.
<Associat0r>
you want it too?
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<context>
anyone know a good site for learning ocaml, im not finding ocaml-tutorial.org to readable :X
<Jeff_123>
1 sec
<context>
and ocaml doesn't depend on whitespace like python correct ?
<ita>
context: no, but you can if you want (ocaml+twt)
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