<orbitz>
written by lisp lover which == language snob but i think it does make some valid points
<diosmalo>
pango_: it should say "Segmentation Fault" but it said "Inconsistency detected by ld.so: dl-runtime.c: 76: fixup: Assertion ......."
<bluestorm>
interesting
<bluestorm>
(haven't read it yet)
<orbitz>
in the end i woudl say the points it makes for ocaml sucking are true but when you do the cost analysis of that to oher langauges it's not so bad relatively
<bluestorm>
orbitz:
<bluestorm>
« Another subtle issue (which cuts both ways, of course) is that you cannot easily modify the behavior of a module outside of it. »
<bluestorm>
that's right, but the conclusions he draws from it are false
<bluestorm>
you can always redefine a new module
<bluestorm>
include the old one
<bluestorm>
and refine the behaviour
<pango_>
diosmalo: actually it should raise an exception, but that doesn't work in all cases on all platforms
<bluestorm>
(or at least extend it)
<orbitz>
bluestorm: can you call the original function?
<bluestorm>
OldModule.func ?
<bluestorm>
hm
<orbitz>
what if you are overwriting teh Date module
<bluestorm>
you could extend it with another name
<orbitz>
i think his conclusino is false but perhaps his major complaint is he wishes to redefine the funciton or his new behavior but also call th eold funciton fo rth eold ehavior
<orbitz>
is that possible?
<bluestorm>
from his Date module
<bluestorm>
i would provied an MoreDate module
<bluestorm>
with an added function that does what he wants
<bluestorm>
MoreDate.date_of_iso_string for example
<bluestorm>
i could even call the new module Date too, but that sound tricky for no benefits
<pango_>
diosmalo: in this case, I suppose the program even fails to start, because of a problem in the glibc
<orbitz>
bluestorm: right, i think that is not what he wants to do though
<bluestorm>
(it would be possible to redefine directly the date_of_string in my new module, but that sounds like a bad idea)
<orbitz>
bluestorm: but i don't really see how that is a valid argument either way, most language cannot od this
<diosmalo>
is the loader that fails, i've not more idea
<bluestorm>
the wrapper argument is strange too
<bluestorm>
"ok you can do it quite easily, but still i suppose it's not done right"
<diosmalo>
pango_: no, no, the program doesn't fail to start
<bluestorm>
"Places" is strange too
<diosmalo>
it fails "real 0m6.230s" later
<bluestorm>
let (+=) aref b = aref := !aref + b
<pango_>
weird
<diosmalo>
yes, is weird the code generation of ocamlopt with linker and libraries.
<orbitz>
bluestorm: that won't work with floats
<orbitz>
or Int64's
<diosmalo>
is there MPFR wrapper for ocaml?
<bluestorm>
let (+.=) aref b = aref := !aref +. b;
<bluestorm>
the "no overloading" argument is given after that one
<diosmalo>
i want sin(x) of 100 digits
<orbitz>
ocaml-tutorials has an argument for + and +.
<pango_>
diosmalo: check the hump
<diosmalo>
thanks pango_
<orbitz>
saying implicitly brinign an int to a float can be expensive andd this allows you to only do the operationg when you need to but i'm not sure i buy that arugetn
<orbitz>
you could make + only with on 'a in which case you woudln't ahve implicit conversion of an int to a float
<orbitz>
i'm unsure of how i feel about + vs +., i think it's kind of annoying in many ways but i haven't done much numericl work in ocaml
<bluestorm>
orbitz: if you need havy float work, you can always rebind (+.) on (+) locally
<bluestorm>
+e
<orbitz>
what would be nice though is beign able to overlaod + and firends for any arithmetic type you create (rather than Num moudle have +/ // etc)
<bluestorm>
there is a syntax extension to do that automagically btw
<orbitz>
bluestorm: i could see that working long enough to realize that you DO ned int arithmetic in some specific place and slapping your head fo rit
<orbitz>
bluestorm: wha ti sit?
<bluestorm>
orbitz: adding generic overloading would add substantial complexity to the language
<bluestorm>
orbitz:
<bluestorm>
let add = (+) in let (+) = (+.)
<bluestorm>
Pervasives.(+) would still work anyway
<bluestorm>
but it's a bit heavy
<orbitz>
bluestorm: i agree. i'm not sure the win would be worth the loss, but just throwing ideas out
<bluestorm>
some peoples have worked on overloading
<orbitz>
bluestorm: (you could probably use 'and' there since th redefintion of (+) doens't require add
<bluestorm>
"Order of evaluation" : i think right-to-left evaluation is the natural choice w.r.t curryfication / partial application
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<bluestorm>
hm
<bluestorm>
i'd say globally that he criticizes : 1) static typing 2) absence of overloading 3) absence of macros
<bluestorm>
i don't think we can do much for 1) and 2)
<bluestorm>
concerning the 3) , i think camlp4 (syntaxic approach) and MetaOCaml (code-generation approach) may be enough
<bluestorm>
but i don't know lisp, so maybe i ignore some impressive things you can do with macros that aren't available to us ocamlers
<bluestorm>
the others points are not very interesting, except maybe for the Standard Library critic : i agree the standard library could be improved
<bluestorm>
(there is a point about the error reporting from the compiler : i'm not sure usual type-checking algorithms make the modification he wants so easy to implement)
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<diosmalo>
the problem lisp is the lost laberynth of parentheses!
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<hcarty>
Proteus: To answer your question from a day or two ago - I have not tried the JoCaml network setup, just for one system
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<jonafan>
how do you define a pair as a type...
<jonafan>
like
<jonafan>
type flimflam = string * string;;
<jonafan>
let x = "flim", "flam";;
<jonafan>
ocaml would say x is a string * string, but i'd like for it to know i mean it as a flimflam!