mbishop changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | Grab Ocaml 3.10.0 from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html (featuring new camlp4 and more!)
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<Yoric[DT]> Syntax extension packaged and ready for upload.
<Yoric[DT]> Now waiting for one last answer regarding licensing...
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<context> does ocaml have any type of local daemon to show the docs through a webbrowser
<kmeyer> web browsers can usually browse the local file system..
<context> is there a designated directory ocaml puts all the docs
<kmeyer> depends on the package I'd imagine
<context> gotcha, thnx
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<context> anyone here use Unixqueue
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<Yoric[DT]> hi
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<Yoric[DT]> erf
<Yoric[DT]> I have a syntax problem again.
<Yoric[DT]> For lists [ bla | stuff ] is a form of list comprehension.
<Yoric[DT]> For streams, [bla | stuff] is several cases.
<Yoric[DT]> Oh, no, that's only for stream parsers.
<Yoric[DT]> So I'm ok.
* Yoric[DT] returns to debug his parser.
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<Yoric[DT]> Well, pa_comprehension now works with both the original syntax and the revised syntax.
<flux> ooh
<flux> I'm thinking support for the original syntax will greatly enlarge the potential users of the extension :)
<Yoric[DT]> :)
<flux> hm, that wasn't quite right, "enlarge the AMOUNT of potential users" :-)
<flux> the former version sounded a bit like v!i4gr/\-spam..
<Yoric[DT]> :)
<Yoric[DT]> Now, I'm documenting while waiting for Likai Liu to answer my question regarding the license of his source code.
<Yoric[DT]> I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be public domain, as it's in a public tutorial, but I'd like his agreement first.
<flux> what are the options?
<Yoric[DT]> Well, he put that code on ocaml-tutorial.org, but without giving an explicit license.
<Yoric[DT]> I've altered it a little.
<Yoric[DT]> Nothing major.
<Yoric[DT]> (that's just one of my modules, of course)
<rwmjones> Yoric[DT], which page is that?
<Yoric[DT]> Camlp4 3.10 foreach tutorial.
<Yoric[DT]> Now, I'm documenting while waiting for Likai Liu
<Yoric[DT]> (sorry, copy-paste problem)
<rwmjones> all the merjis-contributed stuff is PD
<Yoric[DT]> What is merjis ?
<Yoric[DT]> Or who is merjis ?
<rwmjones> the company that runs the site
<Yoric[DT]> ok
<Yoric[DT]> Well, I don't think Likai Liu is at Merjis.
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<jonafan> o hai
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<Yoric[DT]> hi
<flux> hello
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<Proteus> So I've been trying to use inter-library loan to get a copy of Ocaml for Scientists and had absolutely no luck. I'm told the handful of copies that exist are either checked out or reserved.
<Yoric[DT]> I've just received my copy.
<Yoric[DT]> The beginning is quite ok.
<Proteus> ANY ideas on how to get that book that are feasible for a poor student would be helpful
<Yoric[DT]> I haven't reached the meat, though.
* Yoric[DT] had it ordered by his lab.
<Yoric[DT]> Proteus: does "feasible" contradict "will land the student in jail if he's caught" ? :)
<Proteus> absolutely not
<Proteus> ;-)
<Proteus> When it comes to learning I am totally unscrupulous.
<Proteus> Yoric[DT], did you have something in mind?
<Yoric[DT]> Acutally not.
<Yoric[DT]> Actually not.
<Proteus> Damn and blast.
<flux> even copying the thing with a photocopier might turn out to be expensive
<Yoric[DT]> Well, blasting will land you in jail but won't get you that book.
<Proteus> I've probably saved thousands on textbooks by downloading through various p2p nets - ed2k/kad seems to be particularly good at finding textbooks
<Proteus> But not this one
<Proteus> because, like, 50 copies exist.
<Proteus> I might even pay for it if it didn't cost so much when you include the exchange rate and shipping costs
<Proteus> Yoric[DT], have you looked over the meat of the book? How good is it?
<Proteus> And has anyone checked out his ocaml journal?
<Yoric[DT]> I'll try and read it tomorrow.
<Yoric[DT]> Not really.
<Proteus> sigh
<Proteus> Yoric[DT], well, when you get a chance to assess it's quality let me know so I can decide if putting in my $1 for an interlibrary loan request every week is worth the effort.
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<Yoric[DT]> I'll do that.
<Proteus> thanks
<Proteus> So barring getting a copy of OC for Sci., what's the best way to go about learning ocaml? What resources, tutorials, books(?) did you guys use when you were starting out?
<Proteus> There's a lot of info on the site, but things like the translated o'reilly book - is that out of date?
<bluestorm_> Proteus: are you talking of "Developping applications with OCaml" ?
<bluestorm_> it's quite old, but not out of date
<Proteus> yeah
<bluestorm_> there is basically no difference
<Proteus> That's an unusual thing to say about a programming book
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> is K&R out of date ?
<Proteus> point taken
<Proteus> one other question, which is probably stupid, I know that you can link an ocaml object to a c object and with some magic make them play together, but I'm mainly developing in c++ so I'm wondering what steps would have to be taken, if any, to do the same thing.
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> there is no one-to-one mapping from ocaml objects (in a OOP sense) to C++ ones
<flux> I haven't tried, but the same thing I suppose as you would when interfacing c++-code to a c-program
<bluestorm_> you can use the low-level marshalling procedures
<flux> so: extern "C" etc
<bluestorm_> wich for for C as well as for C++
<bluestorm_> Proteus: there are some exemples of C++-OCaml interaction in the KDE code
<bluestorm_> are you interested in an URL ?
<flux> also, swig is able to generate bindings for c++ modules for ocaml
<Proteus> bluestorm_, absolutely
<Proteus> flux, swig. cool. I'll look it up now
<flux> swig actually comes with a syntax extension also. object->method -stuff.
<flux> I haven't tried it, only read through the documentation
<bluestorm_> hm
<bluestorm_> but actually this is a C-OCaml interaction
<bluestorm_> and then
<bluestorm_> extern "C" {
<bluestorm_> char* solve_equation(const char *);
<bluestorm_> }
<bluestorm_> in the C++ code
<bluestorm_> (from eqchemview.cpp in the parent directory)
<flux> it does go through the easy way, not much data structure sharing to talk about :)
<Proteus> so, you call c code, inside c++ code, and link to that?
<bluestorm_> yes
<bluestorm_> flux: i think in most cases, there is not so much to share
<Proteus> hrmm
<bluestorm_> you'll implement a specific part of your program as Ocaml, wich is separated from the rest
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<flux> are there binding generators from ocaml to c?
<flux> I think there's much potential in generating high-quality bindings..
<flux> because there is so much type information available
<Proteus> glancing around the SWIG page, this may be the easiest way to solve the ocaml->whatever problem. Have any of you actually used it?
<hcarty> flux: Aside from SWIG, there is camlidl which takes a (slightly) modified .h and generates OCaml bindings
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<hcarty> I used camlidl to create bindings for the PLplot and HDF C libraries
<flux> yeah, I've tried that
<flux> it is quite nice, but I wrapping esound wasn't easy all the way
<flux> infact I haven't yet finished them
<Yoric[DT]> :)
<hcarty> The biggest issue I've had has been with void* types
<hcarty> They more or less have to be wrapped manually, I think
<flux> I think I had some trouble using part generated wrappers and part self-written wrappers with the data structures..
<hcarty> I do that with the PLplot code if you want to take a look
<hcarty> It's on Google Code, and it's fairly short overall
<flux> perhaps I should take a look
<flux> ah, now I remember the problems I had: context wasn't being passed automatically everywhere
<flux> quote(c, "#undef camlidl_c2ml_esd_esd_sample_infos #define camlidl_c2ml_esd_esd_sample_infos(c,ctx) custom_c2ml_esd_sample_infos(c,ctx)"); -- NOT pretty
<Proteus> http://www.swig.org/compare.html the list of what it can wrap for C++ covers basically everything
<flux> perhaps I can give that another stab some day
<hcarty> The "Source" tab has the SVN repo if you don't want to download the .tar.gz
<flux> hcarty, thanks
<hcarty> flux: Sure thing. Feel free to ask if any of it is unclear
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* Yoric[DT] is trying to understand how to extend the standard pretty-printer.
* Yoric[DT] is failing.
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<kreaturr> newbie question: is there a standard quick "pretty printer" for quick prototyping / debugging? like what the toplevel gives?
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<Yoric[DT]> Not that I know of.
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