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<
palomer >
what's the third kind?
00:59
<
Alpounet >
is it ironical, palomer ?
00:59
<
Alpounet >
Has anyone read "The Society of Mind", by Minsky ?
01:03
<
palomer >
more funny than ironic, methinks
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05:58
<
jonafan_ >
is there a way to compile with ocamlopt on windows?
06:07
<
Alpounet >
the same way than anywhere else ocamlopt has been ported to
06:09
<
jonafan_ >
i think you've oversimplified things a bit
06:12
<
Alpounet >
just call it naturally
06:12
<
Alpounet >
ocamlopt -o my_binary binary.ml
06:13
<
jonafan_ >
** Fatal error: cannot find file "libws2_32"
06:13
<
jonafan_ >
File "caml_startup", line 1, characters 0-1:
06:13
<
jonafan_ >
Error: Error during linking
06:14
<
Alpounet >
what's your compile command ?
06:14
<
Alpounet >
how do you have installed OCaml ?
06:14
<
Alpounet >
btw, libws2_32 is winsock lib, right ?
06:15
<
jonafan_ >
i guess?
06:15
<
jonafan_ >
ocamlopt -o test iamdumb.ml is the command
06:15
<
Alpounet >
is there some network stuffs ?
06:15
<
jonafan_ >
i installed the mingw version of caml
06:15
<
Alpounet >
do you have mingw in path ?
06:16
<
jonafan_ >
you also have to install flexlinker
06:16
<
jonafan_ >
wait i have an idea
06:18
<
jonafan_ >
FLEXLINKFLAGS="-nocygpath -L C:\MinGW\lib"
06:18
<
jonafan_ >
i have no idea what it is, but i found it on a blog, and it makes ocamlopt works
07:01
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13:06
<
flux >
wish people put the automatically generated documentation to the 'documentation' tab of ocaml forge
13:09
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15:06
<
maxibolt >
does anybody know a profiling tool for caml light ?
15:09
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15:10
<
thelema_ >
maxibolt: why are you using caml light?
15:10
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15:18
<
maxibolt >
thelema: i have no choice
15:18
<
maxibolt >
it s for my studies
15:18
<
maxibolt >
buit after i witch to ocaml
15:20
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15:23
<
thelema_ >
okay, I guess...
15:23
<
thelema_ >
I don't know about profilers for caml light
15:23
<
thelema_ >
I imagine you could easily test runtime by something like:
15:24
<
Camarade_Tux >
you might just adapt your program to ocaml, profile it and backport the changes
15:25
<
thelema_ >
let time_f f x = (f x; Sys.time()) -. (Sys.time())
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16:26
<
palomer >
how do I do "constraint 'a = #(foo bar)" ?
16:26
<
palomer >
where bar is a parametric class
16:31
<
mfp >
constraint 'a = foo #bar
16:31
<
mfp >
# class ['a] foo (x : 'a) = object method foo = x end;;
16:31
<
mfp >
class ['a] foo : 'a -> object method foo : 'a end
16:31
<
mfp >
# type 'a t = 'a constraint 'a = int #foo;;
16:31
<
mfp >
type 'a t = 'a constraint 'a = int #foo
16:32
<
mfp >
# (object method foo = "a" end : _ t);; Error: This expression has type < foo : string > but is here used with type int #foo t Types for method foo are incompatible
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16:33
<
mfp >
palomer: do constraints really simplify the type errors you expect?
16:34
<
mfp >
I mean, relative to just annotating function args
16:35
<
mfp >
(x : _ int_foo) vs. (x : int #foo)
16:40
<
palomer >
ahh, gotcha
16:40
<
palomer >
mfp, not at all
16:41
<
palomer >
I wish I knew a way of simplifying type errors
16:43
<
palomer >
I think constraint is to constrain the parametric argument of classes
16:43
<
palomer >
but I'm not sure
16:46
<
palomer >
I think class foo : bar = ... simplifies type errors
16:46
<
palomer >
sometimes
16:47
<
mfp >
the syntax for class parameter constraints is class ['a] foo = object constraint 'a = whatever ... end
16:48
<
mfp >
in general, you constrain a type variable, no matter where it comes from, polymorphic type or parameter class
16:49
<
palomer >
you can also constrain the class itself
16:49
<
palomer >
class foo = object constrain foo = #bar end
16:49
<
palomer >
and you can also do it with self
16:49
<
palomer >
class foo = object(_:'self) constraint 'self = #bar end
16:49
<
palomer >
I think there are differences between those 2 approaches
16:50
<
mfp >
in the former, it sort of acts as a type variable, doesn't it? (since there's an implicit row variable)
16:50
<
mfp >
the latter is just another type variable which happens to be a self type
16:52
<
mfp >
the error you get with constraint foo = #bar is less informative than that with inherit bar
16:52
<
mfp >
Error: The abbreviation foo expands to type < > but is used with type #bar vs. Error: This class should be virtual. The following methods are undefined : foo
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18:17
<
palomer >
(gives me an error)
18:21
<
mfp >
palomer: module Dud : Dummy with type t = int
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<
mattam >
ocaml cannot handle second-order abstraction in type defs right? Or is it possible to define something like this: type ('a,'m) t = { foo : ('a) 'm }
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18:51
<
mrvn >
What is ('a) 'm supposed to be?
18:51
<
mattam >
Application of the type constructor 'm to 'a.
18:52
<
mattam >
Actually, I found it is forbidden by the grammar itself.
18:52
<
mattam >
Only named type constructors are allowed.
18:52
<
mrvn >
like ('a, Hashtbl.t) t = { foo : 'a Hashtbl.t }?
18:53
<
mrvn >
I would think a functor could do that
18:54
<
mattam >
Yep. But I tried to avoid that precisely.
18:54
<
mrvn >
Why do you need 'a 'm? Why not just call it 'a?
18:54
<
mattam >
Is there an existing monad/monad-transformer library in OCaml?
18:55
<
mattam >
mrvn: the actual type is much more complicated.
18:55
<
mrvn >
Maybe you can use type ('a, 'b) t = { foo : 'a } with some constraint that 'b = 'a 'm
18:56
<
mattam >
Nope: ['a 'm] is just wrong syntaxically.
18:56
<
mrvn >
I'm not saying write 'a 'm. But some constraint that will have the same effect
18:58
<
mattam >
My guess is that it is not supported at all, and probably for a good theoretical or practical reason, I just couldn't find it yet :)
18:58
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18:58
<
mrvn >
well, a functor supports it.
19:01
<
mattam >
It's not exactly the same if you have to instantiate statically.
19:03
<
mrvn >
no it isn't.
19:05
<
mattam >
I may content myself with functors though :)
19:05
<
mrvn >
palomer: because methods are class polymorphic.
19:05
<
palomer >
mrvn, what does that mean?
19:05
<
mrvn >
palomer: what is the source?
19:06
<
palomer >
really big
19:06
<
palomer >
the ... is huge
19:07
<
mattam >
palomer: mtl in OCaml?
19:08
<
mrvn >
# class ['a] foo (x : 'a) = object end;;
19:08
<
mrvn >
class ['a] foo : 'a -> object end
19:08
<
mrvn >
palomer: I would have said you need to specify the polymorphic types like you did.
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19:09
<
jado >
is it possible to create a postfix operator in ocaml to define something like i++ ?
19:09
<
palomer >
mattam, mattam don't know if it exists
19:10
<
mrvn >
palomer: beats me why it doesn't work for you.
19:11
<
palomer >
creating a test case
19:12
<
mrvn >
jado: I don't see any postfix symbols in the grammar.
19:13
<
mrvn >
# let (++) x = x+1;;
19:13
<
mrvn >
Error: Syntax error
19:13
<
mrvn >
Error: Syntax error
19:13
<
mrvn >
Error: This function is applied to too many arguments,
19:13
<
mrvn >
maybe you forgot a `;'
19:13
<
mrvn >
And no unary infix operators.
19:14
<
jado >
only infix for two so
19:16
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19:16
<
mrvn >
# let (++) x () = x + 1;;
19:17
<
mrvn >
Actually: let (++) x () = x
19:18
<
mrvn >
jado: or let (++) x () = let t = x in incr x; t
19:19
<
mrvn >
let (++) x () = let t = !x in incr x; t
19:19
<
mrvn >
# let x = ref 0;;
19:19
<
mrvn >
val x : int ref = {contents = 0}
19:19
<
mrvn >
- : int ref = {contents = 1}
19:19
<
palomer >
damn you ocaml, generalize!
19:20
<
mrvn >
jado: Not sure what you want with x++ though. It only makes sense for references and mutables.
19:21
<
jado >
actually it was just by curiosity that i wanted to know if postfix operators could be defined ; but i don't really need them
19:21
<
mrvn >
palomer: is one of the initializers calling a not fully polymorphic function on the 'a and thereby fixing the 'a to '_a?
19:22
<
mrvn >
jado: then no. :)
19:22
<
mrvn >
infix with () is the best I can think of to emulate it.
19:23
<
palomer >
not fully polymorphic?
19:24
<
palomer >
it's possible that embedded_col_pred isn't polymorphic
19:24
<
palomer >
is that the case?
19:24
<
mrvn >
palomer: Sometimes you can have a polymorphic function but when you use it with a specific type it gets stuck with that type.
19:24
<
palomer >
but here it gets stuck with '_a
19:25
<
palomer >
I have no idea where it popped up
19:25
<
mrvn >
palomer: which is a specific (but unknown so far) type.
19:25
<
mrvn >
palomer: maybe model#set" needs to be 'a. 'b -> 'c-> 'a -> unit
19:26
<
mrvn >
or your create_completion
19:27
<
mrvn >
Actualy I think you can't use let embedded_cols = new GTree.column_list
19:27
<
mrvn >
that is an 'a GTree.something, right?
19:28
<
mrvn >
once you use it the 'a gets fixed to a specific type.
19:28
<
palomer >
lemme check
19:28
<
mrvn >
You can't use the same embedded_cols for an int GTree.something and float GTree.something (or whatever the 'a are).
19:28
<
palomer >
column_list is not polymorphic
19:29
<
palomer >
method set : 'a. row:Gtk.tree_iter -> column:'a column -> 'a -> unit <--but model#set looks suspicious
19:30
<
palomer >
I don't see how that fixes the variable, though
19:30
<
mrvn >
palomer: no, the 'a. makes it polymorphic.
19:31
<
palomer >
so the problem is not with set?
19:31
<
mrvn >
shouldn't be.
19:32
<
palomer >
removing the call to set fixes the problem
19:32
<
palomer >
found the problem
19:33
<
palomer >
let embedded_cols = new GTree.column_list
19:33
<
palomer >
let embedded_col_pred = embedded_cols#add (Gobject.Data.caml : ('a ) Gobject.data_conv)
19:33
<
palomer >
that code gives me the same error
19:33
<
palomer >
but ocaml waits until later to give me the error
19:33
* palomer
kicks ocaml
19:33
<
palomer >
method add : 'a. 'a Gobject.data_conv -> 'a column
19:33
<
palomer >
for some reason that fixes 'a
19:33
<
mrvn >
embedded_col_pred needs a 'a.
19:36
<
mrvn >
let embedded_col_pred : 'a. 'a -> unit = embedded_cols#add (Gobject.Data.caml : ('a list) Gobject.data_conv) ?
19:37
<
mrvn >
palomer: The error goes away when you inline the #add call, right=
19:55
<
palomer >
if I put all the code in my class the error goes away
19:55
<
palomer >
is that what you mean by inline?
19:55
<
palomer >
how do I tell ocaml that I want a type variable to remain fully general?
19:58
<
thelema_ >
palomer: you can't insist that - if it's used in any non-fully-general way, you'll get a type restriction.
19:59
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20:23
<
hcarty >
jado: pa-do allows one to define postfix operators (among many other things).
20:25
<
jado >
ok hcarty thanks
20:34
<
hcarty >
Yoric[DT]: Should Array.(make|init|get|set) be allowed to throw exceptions in the Array.Exceptionless module?
20:37
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20:39
<
hcarty >
Also, Jérémie Dimino++ for the Batteries.Print module and related syntax. That thing is downright nifty.
20:46
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20:50
<
palomer >
does ocaml have higher order signatures?
20:51
<
flux >
palomer, signatures are about the same as module types, and those can be higher order
21:03
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21:11
<
mrvn >
palomer: isn't a functor a higher order signature?
21:13
<
palomer >
I thought a functor has a higher order module
21:13
<
mrvn >
palomer: and what is the difference between a module and a signature?
21:13
<
palomer >
how can I tell ocamlfind NOT to export some modules?
21:14
<
palomer >
mrvn, a signature is about the same as a module type
21:14
<
palomer >
(according to flux, 5 lines up)
21:15
<
mrvn >
# module M = struct type t = int end;;
21:15
<
mrvn >
module M : sig type t = int end
21:15
<
mrvn >
You could say a module is a signature + the code for it.
21:16
<
AxleLonghorn >
as far as I understand it, a module is like a function, the signature is like the type of the function
21:16
<
palomer >
err, that's one way of looking at it
21:17
<
mrvn >
and a functor is sig -> sig
21:17
<
AxleLonghorn >
is it possible to write a functor that takes a functor as argument?
21:18
<
mrvn >
AxleLonghorn: I din't see why not. You just have to write the right module type for it.
21:18
<
AxleLonghorn >
I don't know how to do so
21:20
<
hcarty >
AxleLonghorn: Higher order functors are supported
21:20
<
palomer >
do you have functors that take functors that take functors?
21:21
<
hcarty >
I imagine you could go as deep with nesting as you want
21:21
<
AxleLonghorn >
hcarty: how do you write one?
21:21
<
mrvn >
module type M = sig type t end
21:21
<
mrvn >
module F = functor (M:M) -> struct type t = M.t end
21:21
<
mrvn >
module type M2 = functor (M : M) -> sig type t = M.t end
21:22
<
mrvn >
module F2 = functor (M2:M2) -> functor (M:M) -> struct module Mx = M2(M) end;;
21:22
<
mrvn >
functor (M2 : M2) ->
21:22
<
mrvn >
functor (M : M) -> sig module Mx : sig type t = M.t end end
21:26
<
palomer >
hrmph, I have a program with a file called Utilities.ml, and I installed a package with ocamlfind which has a file Utilities.cmi so they conflict
21:26
<
palomer >
how do I fix this?
21:26
* palomer
doesn't understand why they conflict though
21:27
<
palomer >
maybe I should write a test case
21:27
<
mrvn >
doesn't the package have a common namespace where all its files are?
21:27
<
mrvn >
like Foo.Utilities.bla?
21:27
<
palomer >
ohhh, that would be a good idea
21:27
<
thelema_ >
mrvn: most don't
21:27
<
palomer >
but they should!
21:27
<
palomer >
that way you won't get any conflicts
21:28
<
mrvn >
Then they should not have a name like Utilities
21:28
<
palomer >
so I should only export a single cmi, right?
21:29
<
palomer >
but the conflict is coming from the installed package
21:29
<
palomer >
that's the weird part
21:32
<
palomer >
The files Utilities.cmi and /usr/local/lib/ocaml/3.10.2/oset/Oset.cmi
21:32
<
palomer >
make inconsistent assumptions over interface Utilities
21:32
<
palomer >
(even when I add a toplevel module)
21:32
<
thelema_ >
rename your module
21:32
<
palomer >
Utitilies.ml ?
21:33
<
palomer >
but there will always be potential name conflicts
21:33
<
palomer >
I have a module called gui
21:33
<
palomer >
that's pretty common too
21:40
* thelema_
mumbles something about bad naming
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21:48
<
palomer >
better to prepend every module name with the name of the package?
21:50
<
thelema_ >
palomer: that would eliminate these conflicts
21:50
<
thelema_ >
there's a big cost to packed libraries - the entire library gets compiled in to anything that uses a part of it
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21:55
<
palomer >
thelema_, I don't mind that so much
21:56
<
palomer >
I'm writing a gui toolkit
22:01
<
palomer >
ok, I have a test case!
22:02
<
palomer >
hrmph, better zip this stuff
22:06
<
palomer >
unzip, go into the findlib directory, do make install, go into the omake directory, type make
22:06
<
palomer >
and then you get the error
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22:08
<
palomer >
plenty of packages have common module names
22:08
<
palomer >
things like "xml"
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<
mrvn >
Be prepend do you mean Foo_Utilities or Foo.Utilities?
22:17
<
palomer >
mrvn, Foo_Utitilies
22:17
<
palomer >
Foo.utilities doesn't fix anything
22:18
<
palomer >
there, the full test case with files
22:20
<
palomer >
I find this state of affairs rather disturbing
22:20
<
palomer >
looks like I'm going to have to preppend an O to all my files
22:25
<
Yoric[DT] >
hcarty: I believe that it should be allowed to raise Invalid_arg exceptions.
22:27
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22:29
<
hcarty >
Yoric[DT]: Ok, cool
22:30
<
Yoric[DT] >
The rationale being that Invalid_arg is not actually an *exception*, it's more an *error*.
22:30
<
hcarty >
That makes sense
22:31
<
hcarty >
Should List's hd, tl, first, last be added to Exceptionless?
22:32
<
hcarty >
Also nth, reduce, min, max
22:33
<
hcarty >
If not, then perhaps I should remove them from Seq.Exceptionless
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22:44
<
mrvn >
palomer: your testcase doesn't have Test.Foo, only Foo.
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23:14
<
palomer >
mrvn, even if you change it around, it doesn't matter
23:16
<
palomer >
oh, I understand what you're saying
23:16
<
palomer >
actually, I don't
23:16
<
palomer >
what's the solution being proposed here:P
23:17
<
palomer >
how do I add a toplevel module to every module?
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23:28
<
palomer >
do I need to put my whole library in a single file?
23:30
<
thelema_ >
palomer: look up -pack
23:30
<
palomer >
ocamlfind?
23:31
<
palomer >
install: oset.cma oset.cmxa
23:31
<
palomer >
OCamlLibrary(oset,$(FILES))
23:31
<
palomer >
that packs my whole library into oset.cma and oset.cmxa
23:32
<
palomer >
but I still get the inconsistency error
23:32
<
palomer >
that's what I don't understand
23:32
<
palomer >
(it's also in my test case)
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