kaustuv changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | 3.11.1 out now! Get yours from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html
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<flux> the bindings look very interesting
<flux> they look more complete than the SDL bindings anyway, from the audio side
<flux> doesn't come with META-file. oh well, you can't have it all ;)
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<flux> please forgive my sins. I've used for twice today and while true once.
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<wzp> hello, i'm learning caml atm
<wzp> and i realised that 'variables' defined with let are exactly as normal variables
<wzp> aren't they ?
<flux> not really
<flux> you can't change their value
<wzp> let x = 2;; let x = x + 1;; there you go, i incremented x
<flux> well, not really
<flux> let x = 2;; let f () = Printf.printf "x = %d\n" x;; let x = x + 1;; f ();;
<bluestorm> wzp: it's a re-definition of x, not a modification
<bluestorm> (see flux example : values referring to the "old" x won't be modified)
<flux> this can be compared to:
<flux> let x = ref 2;; let f () = Printf.printf "!x = %d\n" !x;; x := !x + 1;; f ();;
<flux> but that's an advanced subject :-)
<bluestorm> wzp: wich learning document did you finally choose ?
<wzp> oh, i see. well thanks, gotta keep reading
<wzp> bluestorm: the recent french one
<wzp> flux: but isn't that because x inside the function has nothing to do with the one outside it ?
<wzp> because the*
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<wzp> i mean variables defined with let can't be used in functions and stuff, right ?
<flux> wzp, what do you mean?
<flux> wzp, the code works, doesn't it?
<wzp> yep
<bluestorm> wzp: actually I meant "recent on the web", it's a some-year-old book
<flux> wzp, so it can use the variable x defined with let?
<wzp> flux: yeah, can the function use the variable defined outside the function ?
<wzp> it's value
<flux> wzp, it can use whatever values defined before the definition of the function
<wzp> bluestorm: oh ok
<flux> it's called lexical scoping..
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<wzp> flux: ok, but the function can't redefine the value with let, as it could outside the function, right ?
<flux> wzp, indeed, a function cannot define anything outsite its scope
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<flux> only the function is defined
<wzp> flux: ok, now i got it
<wzp> i've been working with imperative languages quite much, so learning a functional language isn't that easy, i have to say :)
<wzp> anyway thanks, that helped me a lot
<flux> good luck :)
<wzp> thanks :)
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<bluestorm> flux: do you think PostGreSQL sequence functions would reasonably bring the needed expressivity, in absence of real "field default value" support ?
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<bluestorm> you'd use <:insert< $table$ := {id = nextval(Base.my_id); ...}» >>
<bluestorm> err $Base....$
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<newbie> hello. I have this problem when I do this: make opt to compile ocaml:
<newbie> If your assembler produced syntax errors, it is probably unhappy with the
<newbie> preprocessor. Check your assembler, or try producing arm.o by hand.
<newbie> make[2]: *** [arm.o] Erreur 2
<newbie> make[2]: quittant le répertoire « /root/ocaml/asmrun »
<newbie> make[1]: *** [runtimeopt] Erreur 2
<newbie> make[1]: quittant le répertoire « /root/ocaml »
<newbie> make: *** [opt] Erreur 2
<newbie> What can I do? It's built on orion arm
<Evil_Tux> newbie: it's not 'make opt' directly and also, which linux distribution are you using ?
<newbie> make world was ok. It's debian lenny. The code of ocaml comes from cvs
<newbie> erreur = error
<Evil_Tux> is that why you're not using debian packages?
* Evil_Tux is french ;)
<bluestorm> newbie: the error message seems to indicate that you're using an exotic build environment
<newbie> en fait, j'essaie de compiler la version 3.0.0 de mldonkey. make marche mais pas make install. Il me dit qu'il ne trouve pas la commande "no"
<bluestorm> (your platform's assembler is not what the ocaml build system is used to)
<newbie> Donc, je me suis dit que ca pouvait venir de ocaml
<Evil_Tux> I don't think so
<bluestorm> "no" is not an ocaml command, as far as I know
<Evil_Tux> let me check if I can make install mldonkey
<newbie> mldonkey downlod ocaml 3.10, et comme ce n'est pas la dernière, j'ai décidé de compiler le dernier ocaml par cvs.
<newbie> mldonkey downloads*
<newbie> thanks you bluestorm for this info
<Evil_Tux> bah, mldonkey's configure tries to download ocaml
<newbie> I don't know from what package "no" is coming from.
<Evil_Tux> seems it's not happy with 3.11
<Evil_Tux> and I don't have 3.10 anymore
<newbie> On ubuntu 9.10, there is no problem to compile mldonkey 3.0.0
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<Evil_Tux> I guess it has an older ocaml
<Evil_Tux> debian only moved recently
<Yoric[DT]> iirc, Ubuntu 9.10 is still 3.10
<newbie> how can I know in which package is contained the command "no"
<newbie> ?
<bluestorm> newbie: I'm not sure that's related to that "no" command
<Yoric[DT]> Debian command?
<Evil_Tux> I don't think there is such a command
<newbie> yes, debian command
<Yoric[DT]> You could try with "packages.debian.org" (or "packages.ubuntu.com")
<Evil_Tux> (at all)
<Evil_Tux> newbie: do you have an ocaml installed system-wide? if so, which?
<Evil_Tux> installed properly for me, and I don't have a "no" command
<newbie> the answers of make install (for mldonkey) : [12:34:35] <newbie> no -inline 10 -I src/utils/cdk -I src/utils/lib -I src/utils/ocamlrss -I src/utils/xml-light -I src/utils/net -I tools -I src/daemon/common -I src/daemon/driver -I src/utils/mp3tagui -I src/config/unix -I src/networks/bittorrent -c src/utils/lib/syslog.ml [12:34:35] <newbie> make: no : commande introuvable = unfoundable
<newbie> Evil_Tux: Which commandline can answer your question?
<Evil_Tux> newbie: is it the "first" line like that?
<Evil_Tux> newbie: run 'ocaml -version'
<newbie> The Objective Caml toplevel, version 3.11.2+dev3 (2009-07-22)
<newbie>
<newbie> yes, it is the first line like that
<Evil_Tux> newbie: and do you get the line you pasted *immediately* after you start 'make' (or gmake)?
<Evil_Tux> my guess/bet is that 'no' is actually no... found
<newbie> no, make finished whitout error
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<Evil_Tux> oh, yeah, it wants to use ocamlopt.opt and you said that that didn't work when you compiled ocaml (that's make opt)
<newbie> it's the result of make install
<newbie> the problem is that make opt failed too
<Evil_Tux> newbie: do you have an 'mlnet' file in the mldonkey source folder?
<newbie> i look
<newbie> no, I have a mlnet.byte
<newbie> and also mlnet.byte.static
<Evil_Tux> I think that it tries to build a native-code version when you 'make install' (because of make's dependencies)
<newbie> in the 3.0.0 version
<Evil_Tux> newbie: remove the ocaml mldonkey compiled, and get the debian packages, if they install ocaml 3.11(.1), edit config/Makefile, line 3800 and change the values to match the version of ocaml you have
<Evil_Tux> (you *now* have)
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<newbie> make uninstall failed :(
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<Evil_Tux> it only installs a few files in /usr/(local/)bin
<Evil_Tux> mlnet, mlslsk, mldc, mlbt and a few others which names I've forgotten
<Evil_Tux> (and I think that in your case it didn't manage to install anything)
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<newbie> do you think it's possible to install debian package from sid (to have 3.0.0 version) on a lenny distro?
<Evil_Tux> I don't use debian or any debian derivative so I have absolutely no idea but in general it's a (very) bad idea to mix things
<Evil_Tux> (did I say it was a very very bad idea?)
<newbie> So, i don't understand :"remove the ocaml mldonkey compiled, and get the debian packages,"
<Yoric[DT]> Evil_Tux: actually, it's often feasible.
<Evil_Tux> you'd have two possibilities: compile by yourself/with mldonkey (but don't use cvs! use 3.11.1) and if you get an error, track it down, or you can also use godi to compile it
<newbie> because I am not interested in the debian package of my lenny, because it's mldonkey 2.9.5
<Evil_Tux> newbie: or actually you could get the binary directly from mldonkey.sf.net, it's statically linked and should run on your computer too
<Evil_Tux> Yoric[DT]: he, I've grown paranoid in this regard ;p
<Yoric[DT]> :)
<Evil_Tux> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mldonkey/files/mldonkey/3.0.0/mldonkey-3.0.0.static.i386-Linux_glibc-2.7.tar.bz2/download should/could work, just copy it to /usr/bin, maybe chmod +x it, and start 'mlnet'
<newbie> hum, :(
<newbie> my cpu is an arm
<newbie> not an intel-like
<Evil_Tux> he :p
<Evil_Tux> that could be why 'make opt' failed...
<Evil_Tux> newbie: then just go for the bytecode version: copy your mlnet.byte to /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin, and that's it
<Evil_Tux> (make install does that and creates a bunch of useless symlinks)
<newbie> ok :)
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* Evil_Tux should check french law now...
<newbie> what is the diferrence between mlnet.byte and mlnet.byte.static?
<Evil_Tux> static linking versus dynamic linking, but if it stays on your computer, you don't care
<Evil_Tux> hmmm, actually there may be a difference, run 'file mlnet.byte' and 'file mlnet.byte.static'
<newbie> apparently .static works !!!! :)
<Evil_Tux> :)
<newbie> yes, it's work
<newbie> ing
<Evil_Tux> well, good :)
<newbie> thank you very much Evil_Tux
<Evil_Tux> :)
<bluestorm> gildor: is there a way to syndicate individual blog posts on the planet ?
<gildor> bluestorm: what do you mean by individual blog post
<gildor> bluestorm: some kind of filtering the planet ?
<bluestorm> hm
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<bluestorm> no, I mean pushing a blog post on the planet
<Evil_Tux> isn't it possible to filter by tag?
<gildor> it depends on the software you are using to publish your blog
<bluestorm> wich isn't part of a "frequently updated blog on the planet"
<bluestorm> hm
<gildor> some allow to tag and filter on tag blog post
<bluestorm> I could do that, I just wouldn't want to give people, by suscribind as an author on the planet, that I'm going to post there frequently
<gildor> bluestorm: no need to post frequently
<bluestorm> +the impression
<gildor> I don't think people will have the impression neither
<bluestorm> well, ok
<gildor> (see debian planet/number of post per people)
<bluestorm> I'll see if I eventually write something about Ocaml, of general interest and in english :p
<bluestorm> (I know there has been french posts on the planet but I'm not too fond of the idea)
<gildor> bluestorm: the better is to write the first one -- maybe then you will discover that you have a lot of thing to say ;-)
<gildor> (I am not a frequent poster, but I appreciate blog like http://alaska-kamtchatka.blogspot.com/)
<bluestorm> agreed, this one is fantastic
<bluestorm> (although I'm not completely fond of the TAOCP things)
<Alpounet> bluestorm, if you blog soft is good enough, any category/tag generates a RSS feed ; thus, creating an OCaml tag/category would be very practical, you would then just have to give the url of the feed to gildor.
<Alpounet> (that's what most of ocaml planet bloggers do, by the way)
<Evil_Tux> crap, missed zack =/
<Evil_Tux> Yoric[DT]: anything about tar support in batteries?
<Yoric[DT]> Nothing so far.
<Yoric[DT]> For the moment, we should find the time to push all the bugfixes.
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<bluestorm> oh and gildor : macaque isn't in ocamlcore Darcsweb
<bluestorm> I suppose this is because I use a darcs-2 repo format
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<bluestorm> it isn't a hard problem (I could setup an independent darcsweb somewhere if needed), but I just wanted to check I hadn't missed anything obvious
<bluestorm> ("oh but you just have to edit the .../repos.list file")
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<yziquel> hi. i'm trying to package ocaml-R, and the build system issues the following command, which doesn't seem to link dynamically to the R libs. http://ocaml.pastebin.com/m72f87164 As i'm familiar with this way to build bindings, i'd appreciate some advice.
<yziquel> as i'm not familiar...
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<mdmkolbe> Why does ocaml have no first-class constructors? Is there some technical reason or a design justification?
<thelema> I think some minor technical reason - maybe the distinction between [type t=S of int * int] and [type t = S of (int * int)]
<flux> I think I've heard reasons like that it complicates code. caml light did have first-class constructors.
<flux> also I suppose it would be tricky with polymorphic variants to support it
<flux> there exists a language extension that provides similar capabilities, iirc
<mdmkolbe> thelema: I understand the type distinction. In memory "S of int * int" should be (tag,int,int) while "S of (int * int)" is (tag,ptr-to-pair) and (pair-tag,int,int)
<thelema> yes
<thelema> I guess you could have a constructor function for each that corresponds to the represnetation (curried vs. pair)
<mdmkolbe> flux: what would be trickey about the polymorphic varients? I would have thought it would be no more trickey than any other polymorphic function
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<flux> mdmkolbe, maybe I haven't thought it through, maybe there is no trickiness :)
<flux> pft, my META-file for sfmlml doesn't quite work
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<flux> I don't think I'm supposed to add linkopts = "-cclib /path/to/lib/libsfwmlml-audio.a" to the META file
<flux> hey, it works when I put it into the "archive"
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<flux> bluestorm, so did macaque have a darcs repository?
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<flux> bluestorm, I think support for DEFAULT value would be useful for other cases too, not just for SERIAL. you did know you can actually say DEFAULT in an INSERT and it puts in the default value? (instead of just omitting the field)
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<bluestorm> flux: yes, but that would need typing support, to ensure users don't specify DEFAULT values for field wich do not have a default specified
<bluestorm> so I'm going for the lower-hanging fruits right now
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<bluestorm> mdmkolbe: I've written a type-conv/camlp4 extension to generate constructor functions with type declarations
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<flux> actually I think maybe the issue can be worked around with a recent postgresql, with INSERT .. RETURNING .., but I've never used it so I'm not sure
<flux> but I'd expect it should be able to return the newly inserted id
<flux> but I suppose that isn't supported yet?
<bluestorm> isn't
<bluestorm> I'm not too fond of explicitely adding support for PostGreSQL-specific features
<bluestorm> though I'm building on PG'OCaml, I mainly use PostGreSQL decent optimisation framework, and peoples might consider porting Macaque to another SQL server in the future
<bluestorm> (quite inorically, PostGreSQL type system, wich I really appreciate when using PostGreSQL, is a real hindrance in Macaque development)
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<yziquel> http://ocaml.pastebin.com/m59ee5e9 having a problem with -rectypes. the toploop complains while it seems to me that I've put -rectypes everywhere i could when compiling. Any ideas?
<yziquel> moreover "Unit R imports from ," is rather weird to me: from what does it import???
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