<c0m>
flux: how he infinite recursion affects this?
<c0m>
*the
<c0m>
oh wait
<c0m>
during merge
<orbitz>
c0m: you are looking for the wrong pattern
<orbitz>
it's not infinite recursion you are seeking
<c0m>
it could be a string and an int
<c0m>
well
<c0m>
"test" and "5"
<orbitz>
huh?
<c0m>
err
<flux>
c0m, think what happens, step by step, if you give list ['a'] as the argument to mergesort
<c0m>
flux: sorts it
<c0m>
value by value
<flux>
c0m, really? how?
<c0m>
persey
<flux>
(I assume finding out what happens when you give it [])
<c0m>
*persay
<c0m>
gives back p[
<c0m>
* []
<flux>
so after let (m, n) .., what are contents of m and n?
<flux>
I doubt you're really trying ;)
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<c0m>
i am but i just don't get it ;[
<flux>
well, answer that question then
<c0m>
m and n are split l and merge (mergesort m, mergesort n) .. repsectively
<flux>
so m is.. exactly what? if l is ['a']?
<c0m>
split L
<c0m>
or ['a'] and []
<flux>
ok
<flux>
so what is mergesort ['a'] then?
<c0m>
['a'] and []
<c0m>
and [] is of type unit
<c0m>
?
<flux>
whaat?
<c0m>
scratch that
<c0m>
so ['a'] and [] but so what?
<c0m>
oh wait
<c0m>
you started out with ['a'] and ended up with ['a'];[]
<flux>
I think you're onto something here..
<c0m>
well i don't see what else there is after that
<c0m>
or
<flux>
what do you mean by ['a'];[] anyway?
<c0m>
if you have [], you end up with []p]
<c0m>
err, [][]
<flux>
m is ['a'] and n is []
<flux>
it calls plain mergesort ['a'] (AND mergesort []), I don't see any ['a'];[] anywhere.
<c0m>
err, nvm, base case of mergesort handles [] as a param
<flux>
so it calls mergesort ['a'] in the function
<flux>
remember though, that we were originally evaluating mergesort ['a']
<flux>
so if evaluating mergesort ['a'] requires evaluating mergesort ['a']..
* c0m
is thinking
<orbitz>
wait fo rit...
<orbitz>
waait for it....
<c0m>
infinite loop?
<orbitz>
c0m: why don't you perform an experiment to find out
<c0m>
fucking brilliant.
<c0m>
mergesort [5;2;4;1]
<orbitz>
c0m: why not just try the testcase flux just mentioned?
<c0m>
error FS0030: Value restriction. The value 'it' has been inferred to have generic type val it : '_a list Either define 'it' as a simple data term, make it a function with explicit arguments or, if you do not intend for it to be generic, add a type annotation.
<flux>
hm, F# is funny
<flux>
so basically you can't run that function?-o
<flux>
although you can define it
<orbitz>
Hrm, i hd heard F#'s type system was a bit broken, but I din't realize like this
<c0m>
so what do you recommend
<orbitz>
if you just solve it you should fix your problem
<orbitz>
otherwise you can try to prove it by adding a type annotation
<c0m>
basically if i do ['a']
<c0m>
it will try to merge ['a'] and []
<flux>
really?
<flux>
that would be the case if you called merge (m, n) - but you don't
<c0m>
well it calls merge (mergesort M, mergesort N)
<orbitz>
so mergesort [1] will try to do merge (mergesort [1], mergesort [])
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<c0m>
yes
<orbitz>
this looks like flux's previous example of let rec f a = f a
<c0m>
because [1] gets split into [1] and []
<c0m>
according to the code
<c0m>
and then merge them together, just becomes 1 again
<c0m>
it seems
<c0m>
err, oh wait
<c0m>
yeah
<c0m>
i got it
<orbitz>
how would it ever merge them togther?, that becoems merge (merge (mergesort [1], mergesort []), [])
<c0m>
to fix it, need to add another pattern to mergesort
<orbitz>
hot
<c0m>
| [x] -> [x]
<c0m>
done
* c0m
thinks
<c0m>
fucking awesome.
<c0m>
you guys rule
<c0m>
that you for all of your time .. and for not telling me the answer and helping me understand this
<c0m>
all of you
<flux>
happy to help. may the lambda be with you!
<c0m>
and also with you!
<orbitz>
why can't math peepz choose something other than lambda
<flux>
:)
<orbitz>
functional programming would be way cooler if it were omega calculus, everyone seems to be goign the FP route anyways, so it seems like the end of the road as is!
<c0m>
nah
<c0m>
everyone isn't going the functional programming route
<c0m>
neither are languages
<orbitz>
sure they are
<c0m>
but traditionally imperative languages are including functional programming characteristics
<c0m>
just to jump on the bandwagon
<orbitz>
naw, it's more than bandwagon thing
<orbitz>
the peopel who are getting those FP ideas into those mainstream languages are really FP people
<orbitz>
like Meijer
<c0m>
what do you define as functional programming ideas
<c0m>
first-class functions, anonymous functions?
<c0m>
more use of recursion?
<orbitz>
first class functions, LINQ
<orbitz>
closures
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<orbitz>
type inferencing
<c0m>
closure is just scope
<c0m>
just with a different name
<c0m>
err, wait a minute
<c0m>
yeah, just scope
<orbitz>
it's a type fo scope
<orbitz>
it's only really useful if you ahve first class functions
<c0m>
i don't see what the big fuss is about over FCFs
<c0m>
however that could be a naive thing to say even though i've been programming for 10 years or so
<orbitz>
they remove a lot of boiler plate code
<c0m>
type inference is an ok idea too
<c0m>
yeah it removes the need for strict typing
<orbitz>
hrm?
<c0m>
but sometimes it is confusing
<orbitz>
HM type systems tend to be stricter
<c0m>
sure but sometimes it could be ambiguous just when looking at the code
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<orbitz>
I don't follow
<c0m>
meaning private int num = 5;
<c0m>
let num = 5
<c0m>
obviously num is an int in both cases
<c0m>
but sometimes with huge lines of code and many things going on and variables that are derived of other variables ... it is sometimes difficult to quickly understand the meaning/type/etc of a variable
<c0m>
so sometimes it pays to be more verbose
<c0m>
rather than striving for conciseness
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<orbitz>
keeping functions short is a good way around that
<flux>
I sometimes - in some cases even often - annotate function types
<c0m>
sure
<c0m>
that's good
<flux>
I might possibly annotate object's attribute type also
<c0m>
but the instructor is so pedantic
<orbitz>
I do it pretty often in Haskell
<c0m>
he's like, never use annotations
<orbitz>
but with typeclasses erro rmesages become unmanagable without
<c0m>
always do it this way and that way
<flux>
in any case your editor (atleast in ocaml) is able to give you back the types, I assume this is the case in F# also
<c0m>
but it sometimes seems impractical
<orbitz>
IMO, Ocaml types tend to stay so simple annotations don't necessairly help *that* much. but flux probaly has much more experience than I do
<orbitz>
c0m: hvae you worked in a language with HM type system before? I think som eof what you are feeling will subside once you get used to the type system
<c0m>
hm?
<orbitz>
hindley milner
<flux>
orbitz, the thing is that if I start by first writing the interface, I just copy the interface to the implementation and continue on that
<flux>
so the types go along 'automatically' in that case
<orbitz>
flux: so yo write a signature first?
<flux>
orbitz, sometimes
<orbitz>
flux: that makes more sense then. most of what i have written tends t obe replacemetn sfo rpython scripts where I'm not making use of the module system
<flux>
perhaps more likely if I'm not sure what I need. sort of designing the module in the interface.
<c0m>
i speak, though, w/o fluently writing in a language that uses type inference
<c0m>
so i could be a bit naive in speaking about that
<flux>
and then just copying it over to the implementation side and putting failwith "not implemented" as the implementation
<orbitz>
c0m: yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think a lot of what you are feeling now will subside once you get used to work in HM type system more
<orbitz>
although F# might not be the best place for that since it's a bit retarded
<c0m>
but some languages i use more fluently dont explicitly require type either
<c0m>
like php
<orbitz>
that is quite different though
<c0m>
yeah, it isn't strict in nature
<orbitz>
i think you are looking for strong/static
<orbitz>
rather than strict
<c0m>
gah
<c0m>
love to chat some more but i need to run
<c0m>
thanks again all for the help!
<c0m>
i'll be idling since you guys are cool dudes
<Camarade_Tux>
(and mlton, ah, that was funny to try...)
<Camarade_Tux>
last time I needed to get something from darcs, I just used wget
<flux>
can't do it this time too?
<Camarade_Tux>
sure, it's already downloading :)
<Camarade_Tux>
well, it's probably pretty inefficient too
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: if darcs is not used with checkpoint, it is exactly the same thing
<Camarade_Tux>
gildor: OUCH!
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: but if you want 100% efficiency, ssh to forge.ocamlcore.org
<gildor>
and darcs export /darcsroot/obus/obus/
<Camarade_Tux>
gildor: I'll remember that next time, it shouldn't take too long now (I hope)
<Camarade_Tux>
I might do it in parallel actually
<Camarade_Tux>
gildor: hmmm, darcs failed: No such command 'export'
<gildor>
better something like darcs dist
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: you can do a "darcs get /darcsroot/obus/obus/"
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: cd obus
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: darcs dist
<gildor>
and download the tarball generated
<Camarade_Tux>
I thought I couldn't cd there so I just used tar :p
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<Camarade_Tux>
and wget just finished
<gildor>
cd obus will be somewhere like /home/Camarade_Tux/obus
<Camarade_Tux>
(my connection is crappy)
<Camarade_Tux>
gildor: oh yeah, I had missed the line where you said "darcs get", makes more sense now ;)
<gildor>
bah, this is for next time
<Camarade_Tux>
I probably won't forget, 13 minutes is long enough
<gildor>
is your connection so much crappy or ocamlcore.org has a problem ?
<Camarade_Tux>
gildor: "Neuf WiFi" right now, I don't even know where the routers are
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<Camarade_Tux>
definitely the connection
<gildor>
.... is this YOUR connection ;-)
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<Camarade_Tux>
I just moved in ;-)
<Camarade_Tux>
I wanted to go for optic fiber but the building is not connected ='(
<gildor>
and they don't protect their wifi network... I just cannot understand
<Camarade_Tux>
no, that's "Neuf Wifi" and "FreeWifi", it's a free "service", you allow people to connect to these networks from your box and you can connect to them from theirs
<gildor>
ah ok
<Camarade_Tux>
(provided you are a neuf or free customer, or have a dns tunnel [ which I don't have right now ;) ] )
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<Camarade_Tux>
crap, obus needs lwt 1.2.0 and godi only has 1.1.0
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<Camarade_Tux>
errr, not 1.2.0, 2.0.0
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<Camarade_Tux>
and lwt depends on react through findlib but react doesn't install with ocamlfind, time to steal some META file
<Camarade_Tux>
ok, it was there actually (/me hides)
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<Camarade_Tux>
why would ocamlfind tell me : "Installed /ocaml/lib/ocaml/site-lib/react/META"
<Camarade_Tux>
and
<Camarade_Tux>
ocamlfind query react
<Camarade_Tux>
/ocaml/lib/ocaml/std-lib/react
<Camarade_Tux>
?
<Camarade_Tux>
I love ocamlfind but that is a bit annoying
<Camarade_Tux>
cp solved that problem...
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<flux>
camarade_tux, godi?
<flux>
because I think it mixes things up a bit
<Camarade_Tux>
flux: yeah, godi
<Camarade_Tux>
someone here made a comment about how it was almost impossible to install an ocaml package that didn't come from godi once you were using godi, I didn't understand ... at first =/
<Camarade_Tux>
anyway, it seems obus doesn't want lwt 2.0.0+rc1's api which means I can't compile it
<flux>
well, you get points for trying
<Camarade_Tux>
;p
<Camarade_Tux>
I may package daniel bunzli's libraries for godi
<Camarade_Tux>
he doesn't use ocamlfin but he provides a META file :)
<thelema_>
yay, I have aaa-batteries compiling, and the tests running again. Now back to more architectural cleanup
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<Camarade_Tux>
cool, the first function I have to use for "labldbus" is one that can't be bound automatically since it has an out-parameter (GError**) :)
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<kaustuv_>
What is the omake invocation equivalent to make distclean?
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<Camarade_Tux>
yeah, kernel-headers are required for regular compilation (php for instance) [ follow-up for something months old ]
<hcarty>
Camarade_Tux: I use lots of non-GODI libraries with GODI, including React, and I haven't had any trouble with ocamlfind looking in the right place. Is it possible something got mixed up in the installation?
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* thelema_
is able to dogfood aaa-batteries again
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<thelema>
now I probably need someone to test it...
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<hcarty>
thelema: Does it work alongside Batteries?
<thelema>
It's not nearly as monolithic as it was, although there's a compatibility layer to allow the nice "open Batteries" effect.
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<thelema_>
it should work alongside batteries - it installs as a separate findlib package - 'aaa'
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<hcarty>
thelema_: I'm happy to test it out, though it will likely be a few days before I get a chance.
<hcarty>
My hope is still for success on the monolithic Batteries front though. I think that its improvements to OCaml are very important.
<Camarade_Tux>
hcarty: I haven't changed anything, but I think I have one other package that is non-godi and has no problem, so pretty weird (and I haven't spent much time on that)
<Camarade_Tux>
(since that was for obus, I went back to ocaml-gir/dbus-glib and improved a few things which will maybe give me the functions I need by tonight [that is if I get home early enough])
* thelema_
hopes AAA leads to 1) better structure for (non-aaa) Batteries and 2) more flexible install for Batteries
<thelema_>
the improved structure directly leading to easier absorption of other libraries
<thelema_>
other stdlib replacements
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<hcarty>
thelema_: I hope that happens too. There are some very good ideas for restructuring Batteries on the list. I hope to be able to contribute to that effort soon.
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<thelema_>
I welcome your support
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