Alpounet changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | 3.11.1 out now! Get yours from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html - Answer OCaml Meeting 2010 poll https://forge.ocamlcore.org/survey/survey.php?group_id=77&survey_id=1
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<thelema> BigJ: Eventually you'll figure out that you really just want to do OCaml
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<BigJ> I wonder if qsort in c is similar to array.sort
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<BigJ> in emacs, how can u send an entire program to the toplevel?
<BigJ> if I have all my code in a file and I want to send all the lines at once is there a way to do it?
<orbitz> BigJ: try C-c C-b?
<BigJ> right on
<BigJ> thanks
<orbitz> BigJ: M-x describe-bindings is a nice way to see what is setup
<BigJ> excellent thanks
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<ekontsevoy> I am just starting with OCaml and I can't figure out if OCaml allows creating dynamically linked libraries (.so on Linux or .dll on win) I want to use OCaml to implement fast routines in my Python and Ruby projects instead of C.
<flux> ekontsevoy, I haven't tried it, but did you find this? http://archive.camlcity.org/archive/programming/page-16.html
<flux> it's a perl example, but I suppose the C parts are similar
<flux> mind you the instructions are quite old :)
<flux> ekontsevoy, would it be perhaps easier to use PyCaml? http://pycaml.sourceforge.net/
<flux> it sort of does the reverse, but it's a bridge nevertheles..
<Camarade_Tux> isn't pycaml the other way round?
<Camarade_Tux> he ;)
<flux> if it's a complete solution it should do :)
<ekontsevoy> flux: thank you but it doesn't do what I need - it uses OC interpreter it seems
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<ekontsevoy> It's not really about Ruby or Python, but rather about implementing generic .so libraries which can be used by other languages. I just know if I code a kick-ass MIME parser in C, I will always be able to use it later, but if I do that in Java it becomes a dumb .jar useless outside of the JVM, so I am asking if OCaml plays nice by producing real .so libs or lives on its own island like Java/Ruby/Python?
<Camarade_Tux> afaik, you can do .so libs
<Camarade_Tux> never used it though
<ekontsevoy> Camarade_Tux: I think I'll just download it and tinker a bit instead of googling.
<flux> hmm.. caml_names_of_builtin_cprim was something the ocaml linker generated, right?
<ekontsevoy> Not to start a war, just sharing my experience: Haskell can do it, but after 3 weeks of stretching my brain I just had to admit I'm not smart enough to constantly re-think everything into purely functional form...
<Camarade_Tux> http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/manual032.html#toc134 but it's a pretty advanced topic
<ekontsevoy> Camarade_Tux: AWESOME! Thank you so much
<flux> yes, the official documentation is an excellent source ;)
<flux> ekontsevoy, btw, ocaml-tutorial.org has a few links related to the matter also
<Camarade_Tux> well, as I said, ocaml can do it but it takes some knowledge of ocaml (you need to convert between the ocaml/native c/python types)
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<mrvn> And fun to get the GC to work properly with values escaping the library into e.g. python code.
<flux> just tried this for the first time in my life, and apparently it works ;)
<flux> (after a few non-succesfull deviations from the instructions)
<flux> ooh, even the byte code version works
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<flux> I wonder what happens if you have multiple ocaml-written libraries you want to link into a program
<ekontsevoy> flux: yeah, I am wondering about this too. Ugh... seems like garbage-collected languages aren't a good fit for library developers, so the world will continue to be implemented in C with everything else being a glue/business logic
<olegfink> ekontsevoy: not true, refcount gc's play pretty well with foreign code. ;-)
<flux> seems to me that should be a solvable problem, though. but it hasn't been solved yet :)
<ekontsevoy> olegfink: true. another approach would be to embed a GC into an OS and wait for language implementations to hook into it instead of rolling out their own
<flux> ekontsevoy, but the problem is that one gc might not suite everyone
<olegfink> hmm, I think apple's going to have something of the sort in osx?
<olegfink> they already have a central scheduler and they use quite a bit of llvm
<flux> it is my understanding that ocaml's gc is excellent for allocating a lot of small objects fast
<flux> whereas you would not write your code that way in java
<Camarade_Tux> well, gtk is refcounted ;-)
<flux> but, sleep
<olegfink> and things like lua that are often embedded in C?
<olegfink> ekontsevoy: re your question, maybe you can get by with some form of ipc
<olegfink> ocaml supports quite a lot of different fashionable serialization protocols
<olegfink> I think there were some pretty argumented suggestions that e.g. guis in ocaml should be done as an ocaml core communicating with e.g. pygtk/pyqt frontend
<olegfink> anyway this old approach seems to become more and more common.
<ekontsevoy> olegfink: but that requires another process. basically if I want to write an open sourced library, I want as many bindings to it as possible (for scripting languages) which means that binding developers will have a bad time dealing with OCaml runtime sitting in my .so
<Camarade_Tux> it wasn't really about pygtk, more about pyqt since ocaml doesn't currently have usable qt bindings
<ekontsevoy> k, I found something online on the subject so I'm off to reading that paper
<olegfink> I don't think I really understand this claim.
<olegfink> why do you need bindings? Use protobuf or whatever's fashionable this week and you pretty much cover most scripting languages
<olegfink> Camarade_Tux: ok, I think the article I had in mind was talking about wxwindows: http://coherentpdf.com/blog/?p=4
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<Camarade_Tux> and iirc the reason was that wxcaml hasn't been updated in years and was unusable
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<nucleos> Hello.
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<nucleos> I try to use Graphics.sound but it doesn't work, and I have no clue why it doesn't.
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<nucleos> Of course, I can play any sound with a *.wav player, I want specifically to find how to play a sound of a given frequency.
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<mfp> ekontsevoy: I did it for Ruby some time ago http://eigenclass.org/hiki/rocaml --- haven't used it in a while, so the Makefiles might need some tweaks
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