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<thelema>
BigJ: Eventually you'll figure out that you really just want to do OCaml
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<BigJ>
I wonder if qsort in c is similar to array.sort
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<BigJ>
in emacs, how can u send an entire program to the toplevel?
<BigJ>
if I have all my code in a file and I want to send all the lines at once is there a way to do it?
<orbitz>
BigJ: try C-c C-b?
<BigJ>
right on
<BigJ>
thanks
<orbitz>
BigJ: M-x describe-bindings is a nice way to see what is setup
<BigJ>
excellent thanks
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<ekontsevoy>
I am just starting with OCaml and I can't figure out if OCaml allows creating dynamically linked libraries (.so on Linux or .dll on win) I want to use OCaml to implement fast routines in my Python and Ruby projects instead of C.
<flux>
it sort of does the reverse, but it's a bridge nevertheles..
<Camarade_Tux>
isn't pycaml the other way round?
<Camarade_Tux>
he ;)
<flux>
if it's a complete solution it should do :)
<ekontsevoy>
flux: thank you but it doesn't do what I need - it uses OC interpreter it seems
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<ekontsevoy>
It's not really about Ruby or Python, but rather about implementing generic .so libraries which can be used by other languages. I just know if I code a kick-ass MIME parser in C, I will always be able to use it later, but if I do that in Java it becomes a dumb .jar useless outside of the JVM, so I am asking if OCaml plays nice by producing real .so libs or lives on its own island like Java/Ruby/Python?
<Camarade_Tux>
afaik, you can do .so libs
<Camarade_Tux>
never used it though
<ekontsevoy>
Camarade_Tux: I think I'll just download it and tinker a bit instead of googling.
<flux>
hmm.. caml_names_of_builtin_cprim was something the ocaml linker generated, right?
<ekontsevoy>
Not to start a war, just sharing my experience: Haskell can do it, but after 3 weeks of stretching my brain I just had to admit I'm not smart enough to constantly re-think everything into purely functional form...
<ekontsevoy>
Camarade_Tux: AWESOME! Thank you so much
<flux>
yes, the official documentation is an excellent source ;)
<flux>
ekontsevoy, btw, ocaml-tutorial.org has a few links related to the matter also
<Camarade_Tux>
well, as I said, ocaml can do it but it takes some knowledge of ocaml (you need to convert between the ocaml/native c/python types)
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<mrvn>
And fun to get the GC to work properly with values escaping the library into e.g. python code.
<flux>
just tried this for the first time in my life, and apparently it works ;)
<flux>
(after a few non-succesfull deviations from the instructions)
<flux>
ooh, even the byte code version works
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<flux>
I wonder what happens if you have multiple ocaml-written libraries you want to link into a program
<ekontsevoy>
flux: yeah, I am wondering about this too. Ugh... seems like garbage-collected languages aren't a good fit for library developers, so the world will continue to be implemented in C with everything else being a glue/business logic
<olegfink>
ekontsevoy: not true, refcount gc's play pretty well with foreign code. ;-)
<flux>
seems to me that should be a solvable problem, though. but it hasn't been solved yet :)
<ekontsevoy>
olegfink: true. another approach would be to embed a GC into an OS and wait for language implementations to hook into it instead of rolling out their own
<flux>
ekontsevoy, but the problem is that one gc might not suite everyone
<olegfink>
hmm, I think apple's going to have something of the sort in osx?
<olegfink>
they already have a central scheduler and they use quite a bit of llvm
<flux>
it is my understanding that ocaml's gc is excellent for allocating a lot of small objects fast
<flux>
whereas you would not write your code that way in java
<Camarade_Tux>
well, gtk is refcounted ;-)
<flux>
but, sleep
<olegfink>
and things like lua that are often embedded in C?
<olegfink>
ekontsevoy: re your question, maybe you can get by with some form of ipc
<olegfink>
ocaml supports quite a lot of different fashionable serialization protocols
<olegfink>
I think there were some pretty argumented suggestions that e.g. guis in ocaml should be done as an ocaml core communicating with e.g. pygtk/pyqt frontend
<olegfink>
anyway this old approach seems to become more and more common.
<ekontsevoy>
olegfink: but that requires another process. basically if I want to write an open sourced library, I want as many bindings to it as possible (for scripting languages) which means that binding developers will have a bad time dealing with OCaml runtime sitting in my .so
<Camarade_Tux>
it wasn't really about pygtk, more about pyqt since ocaml doesn't currently have usable qt bindings
<ekontsevoy>
k, I found something online on the subject so I'm off to reading that paper
<olegfink>
I don't think I really understand this claim.
<olegfink>
why do you need bindings? Use protobuf or whatever's fashionable this week and you pretty much cover most scripting languages
<nucleos>
Of course, I can play any sound with a *.wav player, I want specifically to find how to play a sound of a given frequency.
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<mfp>
ekontsevoy: I did it for Ruby some time ago http://eigenclass.org/hiki/rocaml --- haven't used it in a while, so the Makefiles might need some tweaks