gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.0 http://bit.ly/aNZBUp
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<alexyk> thelema: you were right, it's line 34 but in a different file. Funny how ocamlopt screws up/
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<thelema> alexyk: you're welcome
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<vivanov> hi - i have several threads writing on one socket -> will they automatically wait for each other until each other's single_write is done? thanks
<vivanov> i want the threads to write on the socket one after another
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<flux> vivanov, no, you need to synchronize manually
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<flux> small chunks will get written in atomic fashion, but best not build your program on that unless you are optimizing for performance and guarantee that it works otherwise as well
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<SoftTimur> Hello all, I would like to double check with you one thing... in ocaml, "match a b with ..." is same as "match (a, b) with ..." , right?
<adrien> well, "match a b with" is quite different
<adrien> # match 3 4 with _ -> ();;
<adrien> Error: This expression is not a function; it cannot be applied
<adrien> with '3' underlined: it'll only work if 'a' is a function and you're applying 'b' to it
<adrien> which is quite different from '(a, b)'
<flux> softtimur, however, match a, b with .. is the same as match (a, b) with ..
<milosn> hi guys, i am looking at examples in ocamlnet ... where should i look if i want to make custom protocol servers/clients?
<SoftTimur> thanks adrien & flux
<SoftTimur> guys, if you know monad in ocaml, there are at least 3 operations "ret, bind, run"... I would like to know if "ret" is short for "return"?
<flux> yes
<flux> no reason why it could actually be 'return', I've used return
<flux> ("why it couldn't" of course)
<SoftTimur> flux: thank you
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<vivanov> flux: thanks, can u pls explain why -> i thought this is exactly what blocking mode of a socket means
<vivanov> or does the blocking mode of a socket mean to block until smth was written, and this smth is just a small chunk, and after this small chunk is written the blocking ends and the single_write functions start to compete for the socket again?
<adrien> when using Mutex.lock/unlock, is the order in which the different lockers are awaken specified? I need that the first section that resumes is the section that first tried to lock
<flux> vivanov, blocking means that the thead will stop if the send buffer is full
<flux> vivanov, non-blocking means that you only write as much as fits into the buffer and if you try to write more, you get an error
<flux> vivanov, ..but the plus side is that the thread never stops
<flux> vivanov, when using non-blocking sockets, one would also use Unix.select to determine which sockets are writeable (or readable)
<flux> adrien, while some platforms may provide such guarantees, in general, there aren't
<flux> adrien, but it is feasible to implement your guaranteed-order mutexes from plain mutexes and conditions
<flux> not that much code.. guessing, maybe 50 loc?
<adrien> flux: ok, thanks
<vivanov> flux: i see, thanks vm
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<kmag> I'm having trouble figuring out the syntax for annotating the type of a global value defined in a let statement.
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<ygrek> kmag, ocamlc -i
<kmag> ygrek: okay, so ocamlc -i is able to infer the type
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<kmag> ygrek: but ocamlc isn't able to do the same
<kmag> Obviously the later code that puts Unix.addr_info lists into dns_cache
<kmag> allow the compiler to infer the types
<kmag> but the syntax is to use a "val" statement?
<ygrek> no, val is for signatures
<ygrek> just insert the needed type in place of '_a
<ygrek> let dns_cache : (Unix.addr_info list) StringMap.t ref = ref StringMap.empty;;
<kmag> ahh... I was putting the type anotation on the wrong side of the = sign!
<kmag> many thanks!
<ygrek> it is the matter of style
<ygrek> let dns_cache = (ref StringMap.empty : (Unix.addr_info list) StringMap.t ref);;
<ygrek> parenthesis are needed in this case (cf manual)
<kmag> Is "type annotation" not the correct search term?
<kmag> I was having trouble finding the solution via google.
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<ygrek> it is called 'type constraint' in the manual, section 6.7.1
<ygrek> but I guess type annotation is also used
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<kmag> ygrek: again, thanks!
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<vivanov> can i join several multicast groups with only one socket?
<vivanov> these groups have different ports as well
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<ygrek> npouillard, is there a way to print camlp4ast item from within camlp4 (i.e. I get assert false for unmatched pattern in Camlp4Ast2OcamlAst and I want to inspect what was the item)
<npouillard> ygrek: which line the assert?
<thelema> hmm, ocamlfind seems to work on only one datadir at a time?
<ygrek> 325
<ygrek> I thought of constructing Printer, but there is no Syntax
<ygrek> npouillard, ^^
<ygrek> but I am interested in general approach - how do you debug it - you definitely need some way to introspect items at different stages
<ygrek> thelema, datadir?
<ygrek> thelema, there is one destdir and several search dirs
<thelema> ygrek: thanks, that helps
<adrien> how am I supposed to use "ocamlfind ocamldoc" when the interface uses the Mutex module? I can't pass the -thread parameter to ocamlfind =/
<thelema> adrien: maybe -package threads
<adrien> don't like it but: '-I +threads'
<adrien> thelema: didn't work
<adrien> tried something else with "-package threads" and ocamlfind ocamlopt yesterday and it didn't work either
<thelema> odd
<adrien> well, threads is a bit special but I wish ocamlfind handled it more gracefuly
<thelema> flag ["ocaml"; "doc"; "threads"] & S[A"-I"; A "+threads"];
<thelema> what you're doing seems to be the way to use ocamldo with threads...
<adrien> ok, and might have to add the "mt" predicate too sometimes (sometimes)
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<ygrek> npouillard, it happens for the code like 'type a = | fpclass' but only if run as ocamldep -pp 'camlp4orf pa_deriving.cma', running preprocessor manually happily emits such code without error
<npouillard> ygrek: yes but running it to /dev/null (not a terminal) produces the error
<ygrek> yup
<ygrek> so it is converting such code to ocaml ast which errs out
<npouillard> -filter Camlp4AstLifter
<npouillard> try this option to see the AST in ocaml syntax this may helps
<npouillard> With jaked we made a tutorial at ICFP/CUFP about Camlp4/Template Haskell https://github.com/jaked/cufp-metaprogramming-tutorial
<npouillard> the slides are there
<ygrek> thanks, didn't know that
<ygrek> afk for an hour
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<orbitz> npouillard: i was there for that, unfortunatly it was way over my head
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<npouillard> orbitz: sorry to hear that, don't give up! Learning meta-programming is hard because it asks for a clear understanding of different levels of programming, one working on the representation of the other
<npouillard> ... easy to get lost
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<orbitz> npouillard: yeah, in no way is that a critique of teh CUFP seminar btw, it was just over my head
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<orbitz> what is the production stateof ocamljs?
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<gildor_> npouillard, orbitz; I was at CUFP and at the tutorial, and find it quite interesting, but I already know a bit of camlp4
* thelema plans to make oasis the first target of odbminus
<thelema> as it has many deps
<ygrek> slides are useful, thanks
<gildor_> what is odbminus ?
<thelema> gildor_: oasis-db minus
<gildor_> thelema: don't you think it will be more efficient to work together on oasis-db ?
<thelema> well, if I can have mine working this weekend...
<thelema> then I can have a better perspective on the design of oasis-db
<gildor_> thelema: you know there is already an alpha version online, since ~6 months ?
<thelema> gildor_: is there any program/library that it can auto download and install?
<gildor_> thelema: you can download tarball from there, yes
<gildor_> but the build process doesn't exist
<thelema> okay, so it can't actually install any library
<thelema> you have a program that can download a tarball, but so do I, and mine took an hour
<thelema> (to get to the tarball downloading stage
<ygrek> npouillard, http://paste.in.ua/1799/
<ygrek> 3.11.2 works correctly
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<ygrek> obviously fix for PR#5104 doesn't fully work, submitted new issue..
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<shaun__> hi, does anyone know why the OCaml designers chose to implement typing of constructors in expressions by requiring that the syntactic form of the arguments is a tuple with the same arity as the constructor, instead of an expression with the tuple type of the correct arity?
<shaun__> and why it would be useful to distinguish between type foo = Cons of int * int and type foo = Cons of (int * int)
<thelema> they're implemented differently - often the first saves an indirection
<thelema> and the second is sometimes easier to conmstruct and pass around the untagged value
<thelema> you think they should all be the second?
<shaun__> yes, because in all other cases, when expressions are replaced by (raise E) where E is an exception, the overall program is well-typed if there exists _any_ modification to that expression that makes the program well-typed
<thelema> maybe a case of premature optimization, but in the common case, dropping a pointer adds speed
<shaun__> and in terms of using the language, there is no difference between the two (except typing failure as mentioned)
<thelema> there's a number of ways people can be bitten by the difference, but yes, it's a very subtle difference
<shaun__> so they're different to improve performance in different usage scenarios?
<thelema> yes, flattening most variants helps with performance. If it helps, all polymorphic variants are as you want, with the extra pointer to the tuple
<shaun__> i.e. the first is more efficient when there are many uses, and the second when there are many constructions
<thelema> depends on how you're constructing them even.
<mfp> 'More generally, I think the representation trick for constructorstaking several arguments is so crucial and so hard to perform as atransparent optimization that it deserves to be exposed in thelanguage as a primitive concept of "constructor with arity".' (xleroy)
<shaun__> cool, thanks for the link
<shaun__> thanks dudes
<thelema> Sys.files_of "." // Sys.is_directory |> Enum.get |> Option.map Sys.chdir;
<thelema> (fun use of batteries for the day)
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<thelema> was there a solution found to the type-conv build error "Unbound value Gram.token_location"?
<thelema> ah, I guess that's a 3.12-ism
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