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<Modius>
What's the best Emacs/flymakey thing for OCaml?
<thelema>
flymakey? typerex supports flymake, but I've not figured out how to set it up
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<f[x]>
> is a GC root never moved?
<f[x]>
thelema, adrien: of course values registered as roots can be moved by GC, the only difference is that the pointer registered as root is updated to reflect the new value address
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<abdallah>
how come Hashtbl.hash is not consistent over functional values which are (==) ?
<abdallah>
never mind the functional values were not (==)...
<abdallah>
is it possible that the address two equal functional values differ?
<abdallah>
For instance I do let f = ..., then later let l1 = [f], then even later let l2 = [f]. Is it guaranteed that List.hd l1 == List.hd l2?
<abdallah>
(f being a function)
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<everyonemines>
hey, is there k-means done in ocaml somewhere
<everyonemines>
or do i need to port a c version
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<adrien>
everyonemines: shootout.alioth.debian.org has one :-)
<adrien>
it should be pretty fast (but maybe hard to read)
<everyonemines>
i know that site!
<everyonemines>
google, you have failed me
<everyonemines>
they actually have all submitted versions
<everyonemines>
:-)
<everyonemines>
i don't see k-means on there...
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<adrien>
arf, maybe I mixed up the names with n-body and k-nucleotide =/
<adrien>
NaCl: you mentionned you felt like implementing k-means in ocaml; have you done it?
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<Kakadu>
hi all
<Kakadu>
for this META http://paste.in.ua/4151/ is execute ocamlfind install test1 a.cmo b.cmo c.cmo META
<Kakadu>
why ocamlfind doesn't know about both subpackages?
<Kakadu>
sorry, my stupid mistake
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<adrien>
license question: when statically linking against an LGPL library *without* the ocaml exception, isn't the license of the library pretty much like GPL?
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<mfp>
adrien: you're theoretically compliant as long as you distribute the objects and allow the user to link himself
<adrien>
mfp: ok; but that's definitely not the easiest thing to manage
<mfp>
another workaround would be dynlink
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<mfp>
adrien: reading the fine print, there's another option: you can just accompany the work with a written offer to provide the object code, so at the very least you're not forced to distribute the .o, .cmx and friends with the product
<adrien>
I'm not looking for workarounds: I was talking with Maxence Guesdon about that because he has some LGPL-licensed things and I think he thought LGPL was fine
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<NaCl>
adrien: no
<thelema>
f[x]: ah, thanks
<djcoin>
I have a question for french folks: in which masters/university may you be taught functional programming (whether OCaml, Erlang, Haskell, etc.) ? I ask myself this questions a few times because it seems there are relly few.
<djcoin>
I mean, not a few courses, but rather as the main paradigm/tool used throughout the study
<djcoin>
Like say, hm, Java :)
<_andre>
i have a trivial ocamlnet program: let () = Unixqueue.run (Unixqueue.create_unix_event_system ()). when i compile it with ocaml 3.12.1 the binary is linked to libpthread, which doesn't happen on 3.12.0. does anyone know what could be the reason?
<thelema>
_andre: how were your two ocaml installations created?
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<_andre>
thelema: 3.12.0 from the ubuntu package, 3.12.1 tested with an ocamlbrew install and from a newer ubuntu package
<_andre>
compiling with ocamlfind ocamlopt -o test -package equeue test.ml -linkpkg
<thelema>
_andre: I guess that somehow the 3.12.0 package wasn't compiled with native threads support.
<thelema>
There's nothing in the changelog that immediately suggests a difference in ocaml's use of pthread
<_andre>
well ldd on /usr/bin/ocamlc.opt shows libpthread.so
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<thelema>
same here on my ocamlc.opt, but not on my ocamlopt.opt
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<_andre>
yeah
<_andre>
but 3.12.1 is like that too
<_andre>
no pthreads on ocamlopt.opt
<thelema>
OCaml supports two threading backends, its own and a system thread modal (pthreads on unix)
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<thelema>
I guess if a program is compiled with threads, and it's using the system threads, it adds a pthreads dep
<_andre>
in 3.12.1 it adds netsys_oothr.cmxa when compiling
<_andre>
maybe it's actually the way ocamlnet was compiled...
<thelema>
hmm, actually, I realize that there's no -thread or package threads in your command line... hmmm...
<thelema>
so it shouldn't be compiled with threads
<thelema>
can you compile with -verbose so ocamlfind prints the ocamlopt command line it uses?
<_andre>
that's how i found out about netsys_oothr.cmxa. let me paste the output somewhere
<_andre>
the 3.12.1 install uses ocamlnet 3.x while 3.12.0 uses 2.x so this could be it
<thelema>
could be - apparently ocamlnet 3.x is linked with pthread, so pthread gets linked into the final executable even though ocamlopt isn't compiling with threads
<thomasga>
adrien: you can send me the patches if you want
<thomasga>
or I can simply get them from your repo
<thomasga>
I'll look at that, thx!
<adrien>
thanks for the website :-)
<adrien>
it's probably better if you get them from the repo as I'll probably do other changes in the future
<thomasga>
sure, I've added your repo as a remote of fine, so would be easy to merge future changes
<thomasga>
"of mine"
<adrien>
:-)
<mononofu>
So I just did "sudo aptitude install libplplot-ocaml" but "open Plplot" still returns "Error: Unbound module Plplot"
<mononofu>
what am I missing?
<mononofu>
I'm on ubuntu 12.04
<_andre>
libplplot-ocaml-dev
<thomasga>
adrien: your changes are online, thx!
<mononofu>
_andre: that package doesn't exist, I'll try libplplot-dev
<adrien>
thanks! :-)
<thomasga>
(if you make some new changes, please ping me here or by email to be sure that I don't miss it)
<mononofu>
hm, libplplot-dev didn't help either :S
<adrien>
sure
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<_andre>
mononofu: did you load the module before trying to open it?
<mononofu>
_andre: I just started using ocaml a few hours ago - how do I load a module?
<_andre>
easiest way is to type '#use "topfind";;' and then '#require "plplot";;' on the toplevel
<_andre>
this requires libfindlib-ocaml-dev to be installed
<thelema>
_andre is right assuming that the plplot module is setup for findlib - the lack of a -dev module indicates nonstandard packaging
<mononofu>
nice, this works
<_andre>
and you can put the '#use "topfind";;' line in a ~/.ocamlinit file to avoid typing it every time
<mononofu>
so I need to put the '#require "plplot";;' directive in my .ml file when compiling?
<thelema>
mononofu: no, that won't work, sadly
<thelema>
mononofu: only in the toplevel does that work
<thelema>
mononofu: for compiling, use ocamlfind ocamlc -package plplot <rest of compile command>
<thelema>
mononofu: or use ocamlbuild with the tag package(plplot) and execute as ocamlbuild -use-ocamlfind myproj.native
<mononofu>
thank you, now it compiles :D
<mononofu>
though it fails when linking with: The external function `camlidl_plplot_core_c_pladv' is not available
<thelema>
-linkpkg
<thelema>
sorry
<thelema>
sorry that the ocaml build system is junky
<mononofu>
thank you very much, now it works :D
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<hcarty>
mononofu: If you have any OCaml/PLplot usage questions or suggestions for improvements please let me know. I don't have a lot of time for it these days, but I'll do what I can.
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<mononofu>
is it possible to refer to a record from itself? something like a this-pointer in c++ ?
<thelema>
mononofu: let rec foo = {next: foo} ?
<thelema>
type 'a r = {data: 'a; next: 'a r}
<thelema>
let rec r1 = {data=3; next=r1}
<thelema>
or
<thelema>
type 'a r = {data: 'a; mutable next: 'a r option}
<mononofu>
but when I do {r1 with data = 4}, how do I update next?
<thelema>
let r2 = {data=3; next = None}; r2.next <- Some r2;
<mononofu>
without mutable
<thelema>
without mutable, can't update.
<thelema>
gotta go, back in a couple hours
<mononofu>
I'm trying to write a dictonary with records in a pure style
<mononofu>
np
<mononofu>
it's an exercise in Jason Hickey's book, so I assume it's possible
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<adrien>
mononofu: "this" <- use objects maybe
<adrien>
unless you do as thelema first pointed out; it depends on what you can do and what you want to do
<adrien>
but I don't understand your need for that for a dictionary
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<mrvn>
thelema: why not let rec r2 = { r1 with next = r2; }?
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<thelema>
mrvn: yes, that looks like it'd work
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<Drakken>
Where's a good place to ask about programming languages in general? (mostly functional) The only place I know about is comp.lang.functional.
<thelema>
LtU?
<Drakken>
maybe so
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<jonafan>
did you guys see that php thing?
<jonafan>
if you like ocaml, you're probably a language nerd and will enjoy reading about the many mistakes of php
<thelema>
the fractal mistakes article?
<jonafan>
yes
* pippijn
is a language nerd
* pippijn
read only half of that article
<thelema>
I stopped reading part-way in; not too interesting to me
<jonafan>
i've successfully avoided actually using php so i was blown away by a lot of this stuff
<pippijn>
thelema: dito
<thelema>
It was amusing to start, but I'm not that interested in knowing all the gory details - it's nice that it's there and I can point people who (think they) like PHP to it, I guess.
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<pippijn>
doesn't really matter.. I know people who write PHP for a living and they are good at it. they know the pitfalls and they are doing fine
<pippijn>
I wouldn't want to change positions with them, but they are quite happy doing it
<thelema>
I agree with one point made somewhere in the discussion - even though one can write COBOL in any language, one can solve people's problems in any language too.
<adrien>
Drakken: for LtU, fasten your seat belt first ;-)
<Drakken>
adrien :)
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<mrvn>
and the author doesn't quite know what fractal means
<thelema>
mrvn: "broken/complex at many levels" is kind-of related to fractals
<mrvn>
thelema: not any language, most problems need a turing complete one and some peoples prolems can't be solved.
<mrvn>
thelema: no, that is just complex. Where is the selfsimilarity?
<thelema>
mrvn: similar in brokenness
<thelema>
not really similar in structure, you're right.
<thelema>
and I agree that my statement is not strictly correct even within the class of turing complete programming languages, see brainf*ck
<mrvn>
lets define the fractal dimension as ugly things per screen full of code. That doesn't realy work as you zoom (change font size). At least only for a very small bit.
<mrvn>
thelema: well, you can solve problems in brainfuck, but would you want to? :)
<thelema>
move the metaphor to examining the language itself...
<thelema>
PHP source code isn't broken, the language itself is broken
<thelema>
and it's not just broken in a few places, but in many places at different levels of abstraction
<mrvn>
obviously. :)
<mrvn>
I'm missing the part where it is broken the same way on different levels => self similarity
<mrvn>
and thats just one aspect of fractals. For me php ist just a clusterfuck.
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<thelema>
fair enough.
<mrvn>
fractals are supposed to be beautifull. :))
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<mrvn>
which reminds me that I still need a shaded renderer for (sparse) height fields in ocaml.
<flux>
mrvn, any chance you could generate STL models? I have a 3d printer and been thinking printing fractals would be nice :)
<ousado>
thanks
<flux>
although I suppose meshlab could generate those given point clouds
<flux>
(directly generating STL from fractals might be a bit challenging)
<flux>
(stl is a 3d triangle data format)
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<pippijn>
mrvn: why do you think brainfuck is broken?
<pippijn>
mrvn: brainfuck is genius design
<adrien>
ssh root@pippijn
<adrien>
/etc/rc.d/rc.humord restart
<adrien>
^D
<adrien>
done
<adrien>
:P
<pippijn>
heh :)
<adrien>
I think that mrvn was simply saying that BF's goal was to _look_ broken and still be properly "designed"
<pippijn>
ah
<pippijn>
brainfuck is the result of computer science genius
<adrien>
URISC ;-)
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<pippijn>
it's not original design, but the turing machine is genius
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<adrien>
URISC is pretty nice in its minimalism too; that's probably all it has for it
<pippijn>
I've seen a stack machine built on top of brainfuck and then object orientation built on that
<thelema>
ick
<pippijn>
that's how you recognise if someone really understood turing machines :)
<pippijn>
if they can write things like that
<adrien>
you also recognize crazy people =)
<pippijn>
an additional bonus ;)
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<mrvn>
flux: generating triangles from a height field should be simple. You can even make it adaptive so it splits triangles that are too scewed into smaller triangles by computing midpoints.