gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.1 http://bit.ly/nNVIVH
<Drakken> The ocaml distribution has a bunch of "exit 127"s in otherlibs/threads/unix.ml and otherlibs/unix/unix.ml
<Drakken> I hope there isn't anything that needs root access. I'm using a local installation.
<Drakken> (single-user)
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<thelema> not for type-conv
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<thelema> http://bsumm.net/2012/08/11/steve-yegge-and-grok.html "If a language isn.t successful, it.s because the tools aren.t good enough. Through interviews with hundreds of people, online comments, and talks: it always comes down to the tools.
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<testcocoon> thelema: It is what I say here for 3 days: all sucessful languages have a plugin in play IDE.
<testcocoon> BTW I have just released now my first version of the standaloone front end of ocamldebug (http://oqamldebug.forge.ocamlcore.org/). Documentation id in progress, but the code rocks.
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<madroach> Is there a way to avoid the pattern match warning in this statement? let [|a;b;c|] = Array.map ((+)1) [|1;2;3|];;
<madroach> Maybe something like Tuple.map?
<_habnabit> in batteries there's Tuple3.map
<madroach> uh, yes. That's what I need. But linking a 4.5M library for a Tuple.map ?!?
<_habnabit> rest assured that this is not the only feature in batteries
<madroach> :)
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<xenocons> you can turn off the warning message but that would be silly (because it will turn it off for all incomplete pattern matches
<xenocons> )
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<_habnabit> it's easy to write yourself, either way
<_habnabit> just one line
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<madroach> true
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<scri> newbie question.
<scri> what's wrong with: ocamlfind ocamlopt p15.ml -o routes -package num
<scri> says no implementation for the Num module
<scri> i just want to know how to link the modules in
<scri> why not -package <name>?
<scri> when i do ocamlfind list, it lists 'num' as a package
<_habnabit> scri, is there a reason you're not using ocamlbuild
<scri> ignorance?
<_habnabit> oh, that's acceptable (but only if you switch to using ocamlbuild right now)
<_habnabit> what version of ocaml?
<scri> 4.0
<_habnabit> aha
<scri> ok i'm reading up on ocamlbouild
<scri> it's a bit confusing with all these separate tools
<_habnabit> ocamlbuild means you won't have to care about any other tools
<scri> in that case thank you! :D
<scri> like, a lot
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<hcarty> madroach: You could use some camlp4 magic to get around the double quoting. Depending on your approach it may not save many characters, but it could make the regexs more readable.
<hcarty> I should add a regex quotation to xstrp4...
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<Drakken> Why isn't the default for ODB_BUILD_DIR based on ODB_INSTALL_DIR?
<Drakken> Wouldn't that make it easier for users to set both variables together?
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<thelema> Drakken: what should it be?
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<Drakken> thelema I set mine to $ODB_INSTALL_DIR/build.
<Drakken> Mostly I just wanted to move all odb stuff into ~/ocaml/odb.
<thelema> Drakken: that makes sense, I'll change the default to that.
<Drakken> Cool.
<Drakken> Also, is there some kind of standard testing procedure for odb, or do you just start installing stuff?
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<thelema> just try installing stuff
<thelema> a better test would be to run ocamlbrew on a few platforms
<thelema> but most of the time, I prefer quick releases to thorough testing.
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<adrien> grrrrr
<adrien> I hate the fact we can still have "camlzip" and "zip" as names for the same package
<adrien> can someone output me the findlib names of all the packages in debian? in fedora? in odb.ml?
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<hcarty> adrien: http://vpaste.net/lHafA
<hcarty> adrien: That's odb
<thelema> hcarty: you beat me to it.
<hcarty> thelema: I can open terminals super-fast!
<thelema> you can paste to pastebins faster than I.
<hcarty> adrien: I think that zip is more common than camlzip as a findlib name
<adrien> hcarty, thelema: thanks; saved it
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<thelema> hcarty: unfortunately, I just got an email from ashish that godi uses camlzip as the findlib name
<hcarty> thelema: That too. Firefox's history completion gets most of the credit there.
<adrien> it would be a good thing to decide whether packages should be prefixed with ocaml/caml or not (hahaha, supper laggy connection)
<hcarty> thelema: I saw that email. I think Debian and Fedora use zip.
<hcarty> thelema: I had asked both the GODI and Debian folks about the difference a few years ago.
<hcarty> IIRC, Debian used 'zip' first, but the time difference wasn't that large.
<adrien> I remember you had that issue a couple of years ago
<adrien> it's probably the _biggest_ issue with ocaml right now
<adrien> it's simply impossible to make something that builds everywhere because of differences in distribution-provided META files and it's really stupid
<hcarty> adrien: Thankfully (caml)zip is one of the few libraries without an official findlib name, at least up until now.
<adrien> right but there are issues with the content of META files too
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<hcarty> Fedora/RHEL uses 'zip' as the findlib name.
<adrien> need to afk-shower, brb
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<Anarchos> Who compiled bitstring ?
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<thelema> Anarchos: I've compiled bitstring
<hcarty> thelema: You may want to remove the META file in the camlzip repository (trunk/META) if you're going to move to oasis.
<Anarchos> thelema when i configure, it says 'time not found',my shell is bash
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<thelema> adrien: I might argue that the problems of distributing binary executables that work in any sort of cross-platform way are worse than findlib package names
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<adrien> thelema: that's a tough problem, and limùited by some issues that are common with C; find having corret findlib names however is something much much easier and that would provide at least source compatibility
<adrien> (sorry, ssh lag, if not ssh connection drop)
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<fasta> It seems a very recurrent theme that builds are broken here.
<thelema> hcarty: ack on camlzip META
<fasta> Is that some kind of consulting strategy?
<fasta> I.e. provide broken builds such that if you want a working system, you will provide support?
<fasta> Kind of what Redhat does with Linux.
<jonafan> yes we're raking it in here
<fasta> Probably not, but why would anyone distribute something which doesn't work?
<fasta> It's not like testing would take long.
<fasta> You can even automate that.
<fasta> Writing something like that takes a few hours and could work for all of the projects you release.
<fasta> Some fairly large C projects also have that problem.
<jonafan> what are we talking about here?
<fasta> jonafan: broken builds in general and in OCaml.
<jonafan> i haven't really had any trouble so i don't know what you're doing
<fasta> All of the 'it depends on the environment' arguments could be easily mitigated if Nix would be used.
<fasta> jonafan: try to install Ocsigen and you will see what I mean.
<fasta> jonafan: for extra fun, add Godi and some other systems into the mix.
<fasta> jonafan: for even more fun, imagine that you are not an OCaml build environment expert.
<jonafan> i installed it from ubuntu's repositories at first
<jonafan> then i installed it from godi
<fasta> jonafan: it being ocsigen?
<jonafan> yes
<fasta> Ocsigen from Ubuntu repositories works, yes.
<jonafan> it did require a couple of flags
<fasta> Via godi, not so much.
<jonafan> i think it was explained in the error messages
<fasta> jonafan: which already makes it a failure.
<fasta> jonafan: good software distribution systems can see what's already on your system.
<fasta> jonafan: they do intelligent things, such that you, the user, isn't bothered with details.
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<fasta> If you install something using godi and something else is already in the path which isn't compatible with godi, it will just happily continue.
<fasta> It doesn't solve any problem.
<fasta> It introduces new ones.
<jonafan> you must be using a different godi
<fasta> jonafan: if it's so easy, then write a nice script to install godi, ocaml and ocsigen with one command.
<fasta> jonafan: with decent systems that can be done in minutes.
<fasta> But godi, etc. cannot be more fragile and environment dependent.
<jonafan> i... really haven't had any trouble with it
<fasta> jonafan: try to install all godi packages then.
<fasta> jonafan: you will surely notice breakage.
<jonafan> i just installed every godi package without problems
<jonafan> also i don't think godi will install required C libs for you... that would make things pretty messy
<fasta> jonafan: there are about 200 or so of them.
<jonafan> 246
<fasta> jonafan: there is no way you installed all of them.
<jonafan> of course i did
<fasta> jonafan: compiling Ocsigen alone takes longer.
<jonafan> that included ocsigen updates
<fasta> jonafan: Ocaml4?
<jonafan> ocaml4???? ocaml5 son
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<fasta> jonafan: 5 is the new development version?
<fasta> jonafan: ocaml was at 3.12 or so and then 4.something was released.
<fasta> jonafan: hence referring to ocaml4 is not at all weird.
<fasta> jonafan: especially since it's not 100% compatible.
<jonafan> seriously though i'm not going to install every godi package, that is an absurd bar for you to set
<hcarty> jonafan: fasta is performing a social experiment on reactions to the absurd.
<hcarty> jonafan: That's my new guess.
<jonafan> you know, i think there's a ubuntu ppa with relatively up-to-date ocaml stuff
<jonafan> that might be more your speed, fasta
<fasta> jonafan: I'd like to be able to build everything myself _without_ jumping through hoops.
<fasta> jonafan: I can do the same with every other serious project (Linux kernel comes to mind)..
<hcarty> fasta: Then contribute to the build system
<fasta> So, you are seriously saying that it's not bad on purpose?
<jonafan> building everything yourself is a form of hoop jumping to begin with
<fasta> So, people actually tried to make a working system and simply failed?
<fasta> jonafan: it can be done at night.
<fasta> jonafan: with zero of my time.
<jonafan> so
<jonafan> if i point out some c based projects with less than optimal build experiences, is that an indightment of c or the c community?
<jonafan> indictment!
<hcarty> fasta: If you package ocsigen in a way that is compatible with oasis-db then you can have ocsigen up and running in three commands.
<hcarty> s/up and running/compiled and installed/
<fasta> jonafan: it's the average quality which would count.
<fasta> jonafan: also any C project which doesn't use autoconf is a failure to begin with.
<fasta> jonafan: or which doesn't compile with -pedantic
<fasta> + -Werror
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<jonafan> cool story
<avsm> i think its now kind of obvious that fasta hasnt done much C...
<avsm> jonafan: whats this ubuntu ppa?
<fasta> avsm: think whatever you want, but all my C has worked.
<avsm> jonafan: is it something that compiles newer version of debian packages?
<fasta> avsm: in fact, I have a zero bug track record with C, now I think of it.
<fasta> avsm: that is, the moment I said it was done and handed over to other people it has never come back with anything but compliments.
<jonafan> ah never mind, it looks pretty out of date now
<avsm> jonafan: very nice; i hadnt realised ubuntu had this archive. on the autobuilder list...
* avsm is reviewing a large openbsd/ocaml update. once sparc64 catches up, we should have ocaml-4 in openbsd-current
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<Anarchos> "time" is mandatory to compile bitstring :(
<ousado> fasta: I'd really like to see those wonders all the bugfree projects do that you write over night in no time and compile with -pedantic and -Werror
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<cacho> I missed the bitchz warz
<cacho> someone should save that conversation and email him in a couple of years
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