#ocaml on 2012-09-25 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2011-07-12 19:41 gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.1 http://bit.ly/nNVIVH

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00:52 <_habnabit> arrrrgh

00:52 <_habnabit> is there a tuareg-mode or a way of loading it that doesn't automatically set a bunch of faces? (cc thelema)

00:53 <_habnabit> for some reason my new theme doesn't come with faces preset for tuareg!!

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04:57 <adrien> morning

04:58 <pippijn> morning

04:59 <pippijn> do you know how to use oasis or ocamlbuild to link against a C library?

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05:00 <pippijn> use_lib, maybe

05:01 <pippijn> nope.. not that

05:04 <pippijn> ah, CCLib in oasis

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05:15 <adrien> yes

05:15 <adrien> glad to have helped you

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11:03 <hcarty> thelema: Those are probably the last updates I'll be able to do for at least a few days. But at this point I think BatBounded at least in a useful state.

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11:08 <pippijn> how would one normally go about passing "string array" as "char**" to C?

11:10 <hcarty> pippijn: I've done it this way - https://github.com/hcarty/ocaml-plplot/blob/master/src/plplot_impl.c#L643

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11:11 <hcarty> pippijn: Used here - https://github.com/hcarty/ocaml-plplot/blob/master/src/plplot_impl.c#L674

11:12 <pippijn> thanks

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11:16 <hcarty> You're welcome

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11:26 <Kakadu_> pippijn: You're implementing Qt bindings already?

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12:51 <thelema> _habnabit: afaik, tuareg-mode uses standard faces, maybe your theme isn't a programming theme and doesn't have a full array of faces

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13:04 <pippijn> Kakadu_: just playing around

13:04 <pippijn> Kakadu_: with QList, now

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13:08 <Kakadu_> pippijn: http://paste.in.ua/4792/raw/

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13:11 <Kakadu_> pippijn: and vice versa: http://paste.in.ua/4793/#2

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13:27 <pippijn> Kakadu_: passing int by reference is making me sad

13:27 <pippijn> Kakadu_: QApplication(int&, char**)

13:28 <flux> why does it make you sad? I think the point is to be able to modify it..

13:28 <Kakadu_> pippijn: what are u looking?

13:28 <pippijn> how would you pass an ocaml int by reference?

13:29 <Kakadu_> pippijn: aaah, it is a official docs

13:29 <flux> as a ref :)

13:29 <pippijn> good idea ;)

13:29 <flux> obviously plain integer cannot be passed by reference

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13:31 <Kakadu_> pippijn: I've mustered up enough courage to recommend you to think about signals/slots connection firstly

13:31 <pippijn> oh, why?

13:31 <pippijn> Kakadu_: first I want to learn how to pass things between C and ocaml

13:32 <pippijn> flux: I have a problem

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13:32 <Kakadu_> Maybe that you will get an idea to subclass every Qt class for which yo wnat to create bindings

13:32 <pippijn> I need to store a pointer to that int in C code

13:33 <pippijn> for at least 2 calls

13:33 <flux> pippijn, if no callbacks are involved, you can copy the value from the ref before those calls and restore it after

13:33 <flux> (I'm guessing what your problem is :))

13:34 <pippijn> hm

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13:38 <pippijn> ok

13:38 <pippijn> I'm going to have to do this differently

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14:54 <pippijn> is it possible to put ocaml values into my own data structure?

14:54 <pippijn> (C data structure)

14:54 <Kakadu_> C++ data structure?

14:55 <Kakadu_> I think so

14:55 <adrien> yes

14:55 <adrien> just cast

14:55 <Kakadu_> but don't forget to register roots

14:55 <adrien> but what do you want to do with?

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14:56 <pippijn> ah, register roots

14:58 <pippijn> caml_register_global_root?

14:58 <Kakadu_> pippijn: something like this

14:58 <pippijn> if I put values into a QList

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14:58 <pippijn> I need to remove all roots before inserting and re-add them after?

14:59 <Kakadu_> why?

14:59 <pippijn> because inserting into a list may realloc

14:59 <Kakadu_> C++ realloc

14:59 <pippijn> yes

15:00 <pippijn> and that can (and usually will) move the data

15:00 <Kakadu_> I think it will no touch OCaml values

15:00 <pippijn> so if ocaml stores that pointer I pass it, that will be invalid after realloc

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15:01 <Kakadu_> WHY???

15:01 <Kakadu_> OK

15:01 <Kakadu_> If you in OCaml store C++ pointer than after C++ realloc epic fail can be possible

15:01 <pippijn> no

15:01 <pippijn> that's not what I mean

15:02 <Kakadu_> but If u store in C++ OCaml value, after reallocing C++ data type it will not move OCaml value

15:02 <pippijn> vector<value> values; return custom_alloc (value);

15:02 <pippijn> now ocaml has that vector

15:02 <pippijn> ok, now I add an ocaml value to it

15:02 <pippijn> values.append(some_value);

15:02 <pippijn> so now I need to register that root, right?

15:03 <Kakadu_> yep

15:03 <pippijn> caml_register_global_root(&values.back());

15:03 <pippijn> now I add another value: values.append(another_value);

15:03 <pippijn> now C++ may realloc the vector's internal array

15:03 <pippijn> which means that the pointer to values.back() is now invalid

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15:05 <Kakadu_> I don't whink so

15:05 <Kakadu_> think*

15:05 <Kakadu_> really value is int

15:05 <Kakadu_> So you have QList<int>

15:06 <Kakadu_> after internal QList reallocing ints are still the same ints

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15:09 <_habnabit> thelema, no, tuareg doesn't use standard faces :(

15:09 <pippijn> okay, now he's gone

15:10 <pippijn> so, how would I go about keeping a dynamically resizable array of ocaml values in C?

15:10 <pippijn> while paying respect to GC roots

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15:38 <hcarty> pippijn: You should be safe I think - you'd be saving pointers in the array. The pointers can move around with affecting the underlying data.

15:38 <hcarty> pippijn: This is assuming that registering a global root doesn't store a pointer to the 'value' pointer...

15:39 <hcarty> If it does then you'd need to wrap everything behind another layer of pointers.

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17:03 <thelema> _habnabit: oh. :( I wonder why it seems to work with the color scheme I picked on a fresh install

17:04 <_habnabit> thelema, it could be that it was similar enough to your existing theme

17:04 <_habnabit> thelema, also, it doesn't use _entirely_ its own faces. just a few

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17:05 <thelema> _habnabit: could be... Maybe we should push back onto the tuareg developers to use existing faces?

17:06 <_habnabit> thelema, haha, maybe. I'm curious what their excuse is

17:07 <thelema> probably "no existing face was what we needed"

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17:23 <wmeyer`> pippijn: you'd need to resort to custom C++ alocator I think

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17:24 <wmeyer`> pippijn: of course vector will realocate, copy the C++ values, by invoking copy constructor, and then call the destructor

17:24 <wmeyer`> and BTW: you could wrap OCaml value into the C++ class

17:25 <wmeyer`> in the constructor register root, in the destructor delete root

17:25 <wmeyer`> similar strategy in the copy constructor, and default constructor

17:27 <wmeyer`> (so ignore custom allocator: you can do this purely using class)

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17:28 <wmeyer`> if you ask me if it's sane that vector<Object> a(1000000); will call 1000000 copy constructor and destructor: I'd say no.

17:28 <wmeyer`> but that's how it works in the C++ world.

17:30 <pippijn> wmeyer`: I did that

17:30 <pippijn> ah no, I didn't

17:30 <pippijn> that is actually probably a good idea, though

17:31 <pippijn> right now, I remove/register all roots on every append: http://paste.xinu.at/Jr8OU/

17:31 <pippijn> but I can wrap it and only re-register when the actual realloc happens

17:31 <pippijn> yes, I'll do that

17:32 <pippijn> and it will be binary compatible with a simple "value"

17:32 <pippijn> I'm busy doing more interesting things now, though

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17:33 <wmeyer`> there is almost always something more interesting than delving into C++ pie of sheit :-)

17:34 <wmeyer`> pippijn: I'm getting ready still to try out your frontend....

17:34 <wmeyer`> but stay tuned, for sure i want to use it instead of CIL

17:34 <wmeyer`> and at some point this requirment will converge

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17:45 <pippijn> I just encountered my first use for phantom types

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17:47 <thelema> pippijn: and? happy with them?

17:47 <pippijn> yes

17:47 <pippijn> very

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17:53 <wmeyer`> pippijn: they rock with polymorphic variants

17:54 <thelema> wmeyer`: quite.

17:54 <pippijn> wmeyer`: http://paste.xinu.at/6BBn41/

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17:54 <jonafan> haha one of my coworkers wrote an O(n^4) script and wondered why it was taking like 100 hours to process 40k records

17:55 <thelema> hah

17:55 <jonafan> i rewrote it as O(n log n) and await him running it after lunch

17:56 <jonafan> i expect it will take less than 10 seconds

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18:14 <pippijn> how can I call ocaml class methods from C?

18:14 <nicoo> jonafan: Does he know anything about complexity ? o_O

18:15 <Kakadu> pippijn: easily :-)

18:15 <thelema> pippijn: 19.3.5 Objects

18:15 <thelema> (in the ocaml manual)

18:16 <pippijn> aha

18:16 <pippijn> I knew it

18:16 <pippijn> ocaml methods are hash lookups

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18:17 <pippijn> okay, looks good

18:17 <Uma> pippijn: Hey, what did you expect ?

18:17 <pippijn> looks very good, in fact

18:17 Uma is now known as nicoo

18:17 <pippijn> excellent :)

18:17 <pippijn> nicoo: that makes things a lot easier for me

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18:18 <nicoo> What do you want to achieve ?

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18:18 <pippijn> Qt bindings

18:18 <nicoo> Oh

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18:18 * nicoo wishes you luck

18:18 <pippijn> my first test succeede

18:19 <pippijn> -e

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18:19 <pippijn> eh

18:19 <pippijn> succeeded*

18:19 <pippijn> I created a window with a button in it

18:19 <nicoo> \o/

18:20 <pippijn> about 750 lines of code

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18:29 <jonafan> no nicoo, his talents lie in other realms

18:30 <nicoo> jonafan: Yes, but it seems important to know a bit about complexity, in order to write non-horrifyingly-inefficient programs

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18:36 <jonafan> i tried to explain what i meant by O(n^4) and the problems that can easily arrive with loops inside loops inside loops inside loops

18:37 <thelema> just do some counting - how many times does the middle block inside all the loops have to run...

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18:50 <pippijn> Kakadu: http://paste.xinu.at/2LWz/

18:53 <hcarty> pippijn: Very nice

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18:56 <Kakadu> pippijn: you are on the top of the iceberg

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18:57 <pippijn> I think I'm going into the right direction

18:58 <Kakadu> yeah

18:58 <Kakadu> pippijn: I can recommend you to think about signals and slotes

19:00 <Kakadu> pippijn: like in https://github.com/Kakadu/lablqt/blob/master/simple_signals/test/main.ml

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19:05 <Kakadu> pippijn: You can take slots and signal signatures like here: https://github.com/Kakadu/lablqt/wiki/Type-safe-connection-from-signals-to-slots

19:07 <pippijn> ah

19:07 <pippijn> I'm not going there, yet

19:07 <pippijn> I havea different approach

19:08 <Kakadu> pippijn: Also, are u planning to allow user to inherit OCaml's QWidget class?

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19:12 <Kakadu> pippijn: I'm going to say that You can't listen key press events without overriding QWidget's keyPressEvent(QKeyEvent*) method

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19:59 <pippijn> meh

20:00 <pippijn> Kakadu: QApplication keeps the reference to argc

20:02 <Kakadu> and?

20:02 <pippijn> it's annoying

20:02 <pippijn> because I freed it

20:02 <pippijn> and then it died

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20:16 <adrien> <3

20:19 <pippijn> Kakadu: http://paste.xinu.at/JLPah/

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20:22 <pippijn> Kakadu: http://paste.xinu.at/RWc/

20:23 <Kakadu> And now

20:23 <Kakadu> if you add this object somewhere

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20:24 <pippijn> what do you mean?

20:25 <Kakadu> I'm very slow thinking.... omg

20:26 <Kakadu> How Qt knows that you have overriden some methods?

20:26 <pippijn> subclassing QWidget

20:26 <Kakadu> in C++ code?

20:26 <pippijn> yes

20:26 <Kakadu> OK

20:27 <pippijn> the C++ code then finds the ocaml method

20:27 <pippijn> if it exists, it's called

20:27 <Kakadu> So you call OCaml realization in every method?

20:27 <pippijn> yes

20:28 <Kakadu> and it method is not overriden it calles default Qt realization from superclass

20:28 <pippijn> the only other way would be to build vtables at runtime

20:28 <Kakadu> if*

20:28 <pippijn> yes

20:28 <adrien> how much C++ code does that require?

20:28 <Kakadu> pippijn: How you envented this realization so fast?

20:28 <pippijn> quite much

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20:29 <Kakadu> invented*

20:29 <pippijn> maybe I can reduce it a little

20:29 <pippijn> 724 total

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20:30 <adrien> bah, compiling C++ for each file sounds annoying

20:30 <pippijn> hm?

20:31 <adrien> I need sleep right now :-)

20:31 <pippijn> me too

20:31 <pippijn> it's 4:30

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20:33 <pippijn> 160 lines of ocaml code

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20:34 <pippijn> by the way, the C++ side is completely broken regarding GC handling

20:34 <pippijn> I'm supposed to register local variables as roots, etc.

20:34 <pippijn> CAMLlocal1

20:35 <jonafan> based on the fact taht my version of this script took 2 minutes to run, i estimate that his version would have taken 16 million years

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20:35 <thelema> jonafan: not quite 10 seconds?

20:36 <jonafan> he came up with an estimate of 66 hours by running the script on 100 records and multiplying

20:36 <thelema> hmm n^4...

20:36 <thelema> so it took 40 minutes on 100 records?

20:37 <jonafan> i guess it must have

20:37 <thelema> I only get 7000 years

20:37 <jonafan> i'm not sure though, this script has a print statement for every record which probably slowed it down a lot

20:37 <thelema> 40 minutes * (100^4) = 7 605.30351 years

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20:38 <thelema> well, at least you processed 100* more records in 1/20th the time

20:39 <jonafan> i sort of did 40k * log 40k = 120s

20:39 <thelema> oh, 40k records?

20:39 <jonafan> i dunno if that's a good way to do it

20:40 <jonafan> i actually don't know how many records there were either

20:40 <jonafan> i think it was about 40k though

20:40 <jonafan> i don't have the data but i kinda looked at it yesterday to figure out what he was doing

20:40 <thelema> then his solution would take 1.9 million years, if it was really an n^4 algorithm

20:40 <thelema> anyway...

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20:55 <nicoo> jonafan: What is the script supposed to do, btw ?

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20:56 <jonafan> it calculates weighted averages of west nile virus infection rates i think

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21:04 <nicoo> He managed to do so in n^4 ?

21:05 <jonafan> impressive incompetence

21:06 <jonafan> he's a researcher, not a programmer

21:06 <jonafan> he writes papers

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21:07 <jonafan> that's the difference between a computer scientist and a scientist with a computer i guess

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