adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml-lang.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<NaCl> Is there an emacs mode for editing .mly files? I know tuareg highlights the ocaml parts correctly, but it doesn't seem to know about the "yacc" stuff.
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<nicoo> NaCl: Not AFAIK but if you find (or write) one, please tell me ;)
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<pippijn> does ocaml work on EBCDIC platforms?
<nicoo> Doubtful
<nicoo> pippijn: You want to use OCaml on AS/400 ?
<pippijn> I'm just wondering, because what I'm writing now depends on ASCII
<pippijn> so I'm wondering if I can continue doing so because ocaml wouldn't work on anything else, anyway
<pippijn> in my C programs, I take care to support all character sets (ASCII, EBCDIC and anything that could ever exist within the constraints of the C standard)
<nicoo> It seems EBCDIC is unsupported (no surprises)
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<Kakadu> Do you have any ideas why Printtyp.signature describes only items which describe types?
<Kakadu> for normal values only empty string is generated.
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<callen> has anyone here done web dev in OCaml?
<pippijn> not yet
<callen> I was hoping for a pointer to a post...a tutorial...a library...
<callen> not a sarcastic remark.
<pippijn> that was not sarcastic
<pippijn> I meant to say: I'm planning to
<callen> o lawd
<Anarchos> callen did you notice ocsigen ?
<callen> Anarchos: yeah, I was hoping for something a little more lightweight.
<pippijn> ocsigen is an application server which I wanted to use
<pippijn> oh
<Anarchos> callen sorry i don't like web dev so i am not so skilled in it, even in ocaml
<callen> it's okay, I'm just trying to find a lightweight library for OCaml for making a web app/server.
<Kakadu> callen: AFAIR there is another framework, developped by Nicollet
<Kakadu> afair it is a 2nd name of guy
<callen> I looked at Ocsigen, dude, their web stack is stateful. That is *BAD* mojo.
<nicoo> callen: I heard good stuff about Opa; it's not OCaml, but it is built with OCaml.
<Anarchos> callen what is a webstack stateful ?
<callen> nicoo: I am *NOT* using node.js
<callen> nicoo: I'd rather quit programming and start delivering pizza than use node.js
<flux> you don't need to do stateful apps with ocsigen
<nicoo> callen: I didn't say anything about node.js :o
<flux> although I haven't done anything complicated with it, but I've just used reasonable URLs with it
<callen> nicoo: that's what opalang compiles to
<callen> nicoo: javascript that you deploy on node.js
<nicoo> callen: Ah; didn't know that; sorry
<callen> np, just be aware that Opa is more about javascript than ocaml.
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<pippijn> The Opa Framework for Javascript
<Qrntz> there is also Ohm (that thing by Nicollet) and something else very small and light I forgot the name of
<Qrntz> it's called ocamlX, where I'm having trouble recalling the X
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<Qrntz> whoops, lied here actually
<Qrntz> it's camlserv
<Qrntz> doesn't see a lot of activity but might be interesting
<pippijn> [".ml"; ".mli"; ".mll"; ".mly"]
<flux> one can do traditional cgi apps with ocamlnet, and fastcgi/scgi ones as well
<pippijn> this sucks
<pippijn> oasis doesn't support custom file extensions for sources
<pippijn> I want to use noweb (literate programming) so all my files end in .nw
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<pippijn> does oasis have a repository?
<Anarchos> pippijn oh you use noweb too ?
<Anarchos> pippijn just extract .ml files from your noweb sources ...
<pippijn> Anarchos: before running setup.ml?
<pippijn> I hacked oasis instead
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<Anarchos> pippijn yes
<pippijn> I don't want that
<pippijn> so I added .nw to the list of extensions
* jbrown__ played with mod_caml once but I think it's pretty obsolete/unloved now.
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<Anarchos> pippijn ok ok
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<callen> pippijn: Ohm seems promising.
<Anarchos> pippijn how do you use noweb ?
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<pippijn> callen: good to know, I'll keep it in mind
<pippijn> POSIX Basic Regular Expressions have backreferences?
<nicoo> pippijn: No, they don't
<nicoo> Regular Expression don't have backreferences.
<nicoo> pippijn: They have capture
<nicoo> It is not quite the same thing
<pippijn> Matches what the nth marked subexpression matched, where n is a digit from 1 to 9. This construct is theoretically irregular and was not adopted in the POSIX ERE syntax. Some tools allow referencing more than nine capturing groups.
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<tilarids> Hi. Is there a way to profile memory usage in OCaml? I'm trying to
<tilarids> understand why my OCaml program uses so much memory. I have a list
<tilarids> of 75kk (float * int) elems and it takes about 5 GB of RAM. I've
<tilarids> rewritten same algorithm in C++ and got usual 1.4 GB for 96kk
<tilarids> elems. I assume my OCaml program creates some unneeded intermediate
<tilarids> stuff
<tilarids> OCaml code: http://codepad.org/VU4NgIMz . C++ code:
<pippijn> where was this question copied from?
<tilarids> from the #freenode room, I've missed the right door :(
<tilarids> Does it appear broken?
<nicoo> pippijn: \n isn't POSIX ERE, as is said in the Wiki page
<pippijn> correct
<pippijn> is it BRE?
<nicoo> Ok, you were asking about BRE.
<nicoo> I have no idea; I hope not
<pippijn> I explicitly said Basic
<nicoo> pippijn: Yes, but my brain skipped it :$
<nicoo> tilarids: It might be because of boxing.
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<pippijn> yes, I think floats are boxed except when in float arrays
<tilarids> nicoo: how can I avoid it? Or where can I read about it?
* tilarids is hitting google for it
<pippijn> tilarids: difficult..
<pippijn> you could use BigArray
<pippijn> or use a float array and use indices into that array
<pippijn> you can layout your memory manually
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<tilarids> manual memory layout == using big array or there are any other options?
<pippijn> like I said, you can also use a large float array
<pippijn> but I don't know if it will fit
<pippijn> you have a list, did you use a linked list in C++, too?
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<tilarids> nope, I've used std::vector in C++ version. I have tried using Array in OCaml code but it ended up with 5.5 GB memory usage and really slow sorting so I stepped back to plain List
<pippijn> okay
<pippijn> that's strange
<pippijn> because an array uses half the memory of a list
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<tilarids> here is the Array version: http://codepad.org/oeHElsPM
<NaCl> Needs more custom allocator
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<tilarids> NaCl: what do you mean? Haven't heard anything of custom allocators in OCaml code before
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<tilarids> is there any book/set of articles that describes the internals of OCaml? As far as I understand, I'll not be able to write efficient code if I don't understand which code the compiler produces for each source line
<NaCl> was referencing std::vector
<NaCl> *there is
<NaCl> tilarids: I misread what you wrote, please disregard me.
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<yezariaely> can I split format strings somehow? simply inserting a carret seems to change thetype
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<pippijn> yezariaely: why do you want it?
<pippijn> yezariaely: you can do this:
<pippijn> printf "hello\
<pippijn> world"
<yezariaely> pippijn: ah didn't know, this, then my question gets obsolete ;)
<yezariaely> thx
<pippijn> (that would output helloworld)
<adrien> C's "foo" "bar" is nicer ='(
<pippijn> yes, I agree
<yezariaely> adrien: This is what I tried first ;)
<NaCl> you could also do format_of_string ("foo" ^ "bar")
<yezariaely> hmm that would be nice, too.
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<Qrntz> or use ( ^^ ) which is format concatenation
<Qrntz> # "hello" ^^ "world" ;;
<Qrntz> - : ('_a, '_b, '_c, '_d, '_d, '_a) format6 = <abstr>
<NaCl> Didn't know about that one
<NaCl> oh, wait
<NaCl> it's right on that same page
* NaCl facepalms
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<wieczyk> I have project which is build by ocamlbuild, it has some packages, like Batteries and Threads, in _tags.
<wieczyk> How to build top-level instead of executable, I have done Main.mltop with "Main"
<wieczyk> and when I invoke ocamlbuild Main.top then he is complaining about unknown Batteries module.
<wieczyk> But Main.native can be build without problem.
<Qrntz> NaCl, :-)
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<thelema> wieczyk: maybe ocamlbuild doesn't handle ocamlfind deps when building toplevels?
<adrien> what about Main.byte?
<wieczyk> Main.byte works, thelema must have right.
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<adrien> you can build with -classic-display to help debugging and you can dump which tags are effective for a given target
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<zerbob> hello
<zerbob> I'm getting a really weird typing error in a functorized module
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<zerbob> if anyone can help, I get "type int istead of type t" at line 48
<wieczyk> thelema: Could you help me how to invoke ocamlbuild to link with Batteries without writing _tags?
<wieczyk> Batteries documentation tells about _tags file, which is ignored whed building .top ;/
<yezariaely> zerbob: shouldn't the 1 in q-1 be of type t somehow? e.g. use one instead of 1 ?
<yezariaely> ah no, sorry, got that wrong
<yezariaely> but probably, the "+" and "-" is redefined? Here you need the original ones from Pervasive?
<zerbob> oh right
<zerbob> it must be that, thank you
<Qrntz> zerbob, either place that ( * ) declaration before the (+)/(-) or refer to Pervasives directly as in Pervasives.(q - 1)
<zerbob> in a previous version they were labelled ++ and --, I forgot to change all the occurrences
<zerbob> ok, it works, thank you
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<fasta> Is there any way to make a quick GUI with Ocaml? I know for Python the Qt bindings are easy to use for example.
<flux> lablgtk2 is probably it
<fasta> I have no real preference for gtk/qt.
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<fasta> Isn't gtk already at 3?
<adrien> yes but
<adrien> GTK+3 introduces some annoyances and doesn't have that many benefits
<adrien> support for it is being worked on however
<adrien> but you can count on GTK+2 being available everywhere for years and years
<xavierm02> Hey
<xavierm02> I have trouble understanding when variables get released
<xavierm02> if I do
<xavierm02> let x = 1 in let y = 2 in ...
<flux> it's the same as let x = 1 in (lety = 2 in ( ... ))
<xavierm02> how can I tell ocaml I don't need y anymore but still need x
<flux> do you mean from the scope or from the garbage collection view point?
<xavierm02> scope
<adrien> well, it's a bit similar: values can be collected when they go out of scope
<flux> well, you cannot do that. you can call another function with the y parameter and so the new function (if it's defined in some other scope) will not have access to x.
<flux> or you can rebind x (shadowing the previous definition)
<xavierm02> O_O
<flux> but it cannot be removed from the scope
<flux> I don't know of any statically typed language that would have that..
<xavierm02> that's... unexpected >_<
<flux> (and even in some dynamic ones it would be quite hackery)
<flux> how do you find yourself needing such a feature?
<xavierm02> I don't need it
<xavierm02> I simply don't need some variables anymore
<flux> usually let .. in-binding scopes are short
<adrien> xavierm02: actually the solution is _very_ simple: split your code more
<flux> or at least that's a good goal to have
<adrien> avoid long functions, it'll prevent 99.99% of the cases where you would keep things in scope without wanting to
<flux> xavierm02, so you're afraid you might accidentally refer to some variable you wouldn't have even needed at that point of code?
<xavierm02> no
<xavierm02> oh wait
<xavierm02> you mean if I don't use it after a give point
<xavierm02> it gets released
<xavierm02> before the scope is left?
<flux> well, I've never found that issue to matter, but I'm guessing it won't be released
<adrien> I've found it to matter once
<adrien> it's not very hard to find out if the GC can collect a value: can _you_, as a human, find a way to reach the value? if you cannot, chances are the GC won't either and will collect it
<xavierm02> ok
<xavierm02> ty guys :)
<adrien> xavierm02: also keep in mind it's pretty hard to leak in ocaml so don't worry about it until you've noticed an actual leak with hard numbers
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<flux> well, I have some information
<flux> it turns out values in scope can get released by the Gc
<flux> at least this is what I deduce from running evaluating this in ocaml toplevel: let foo () = let x = String.copy "Testdata" in Gc.finalise prompt x; let rec loop x = Gc.full_major (); loop (String.copy "a") in loop "hello";;
<flux> oops: let prompt _ = Printf.printf "Finalised\n%!" let foo () = let x = String.copy "Testdata" in Gc.finalise prompt x; let rec loop x = Gc.full_major (); loop (String.copy "a") in loop "hello";;
<adrien> if it's in scope, what guarantees you're not going to use it again?
<flux> you can statically see it
<flux> of course, yuo cannot see it if you can possibly use it
<adrien> agreed but ocaml doesn't usually try to do such reasoning
<adrien> but I have no proof =)
<flux> this fragment does not run the finaliser:
<flux> let prompt _ = Printf.printf "Finalised\n%!" let foo () = let value = String.copy "Testdata" in Gc.finalise prompt value; let rec loop x = ignore (value); Gc.full_major (); loop (String.copy "a") in loop "hello";;
<flux> and if you remove the ignore (value); part it again gets finalised
<flux> surely ocaml doesn't try very hard to analyse it, but it's a simple matter of a variable life time..
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<adrien> I haven't lookeed into that in detail, the only time I've had to do that, I simply split my function in two
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<callen> pippijn: one problem with Ohm is that it defaults to CouchDB, which is a shit-show.
<callen> I really wish they hadn't done that.
<pippijn> ugh
<callen> yeah. I know.
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<callen> it's a huge, wonderful, amazing framework, but the persistence method is amazeballs retarded.
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<wieczyk> How to load all files from .cma in toplevel. I am typing #load "file.cma"
<wieczyk> but it does not loading my modules inside .cma"
<orbitz> wieczyk: I think youh have to load them yourself, or use topfind
<wieczyk> Code from module is executed, I tested it by 'raise Exit' but the Code from module is not available (binded) in toplevel.
<wieczyk> OK, solved problem.
<wieczyk> I had to add "#directory path" for each directory where ".cmi" files is"
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<thelema> wieczyk: edit your myocamlbuild.ml plugin to set the needed compile flags; see batteries' myocamlbuild for a start
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<coldpizza72i> Can someone help me with this error http://ideone.com/SrvRYo
<Anarchos> coldpizza72i yes, wait a minute i read that
<Anarchos> coldpizza72i in your let T(...) line 21, you are not exhaustive cause the application "ins s" may return E.
<coldpizza72i> Anarchos: how should i fix that?
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<Anarchos> match (ins s) with T (_,a,y,b) -> blahblah | E -> failwith "bad value"
<Anarchos> coldpizza72i and line 27 you have a more serious error.
<Anarchos> it should be T (_,left,y,right) line 26 i guess
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<Anarchos> coldpizza72i cause type 'a tree = E | T of color * 'a tree * 'a * 'a tree so y must be between left and right...
<wieczyk> thelema: thanks
<coldpizza72i> oops
<coldpizza72i> Anarchos: E is empty right?
<Anarchos> coldpizza72i no E is a value not a type
<Anarchos> coldpizza72i so the emptyness of E has no sense
<Anarchos> let T(...) = f x is like match f x with T(...) : it is a binding pattern matching
<Anarchos> so as with any pattern matchnig, you must check all the cases exhaustively
<wieczyk> How to check which version of Utop I use?
<thelema> wieczyk: ocamlfind list | grep utop
<wieczyk> Thanks.
<Anarchos> coldpizza72i let me know if it workds
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<coldpizza72i> 5min
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<coldpizza72i> Anarchos: http://ideone.com/ftudCd
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<Anarchos> in   match ins s with T (_,a,y,b) -> T(B,a,y,b) | E -> failwith "bad value"
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<Anarchos> coldpizza72i does it work ?
<coldpizza72i> yes thanks
<Anarchos> coldpizza72i i never use binding with let. I find it confusing
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<hcarty> pippijn: The oasis repository has moved to github - https://github.com/ocaml/oasis
<pippijn> thanks
<adrien> hcarty: hmmm, by gildor?
<hcarty> pippijn: You're welcome
<hcarty> adrien: Yes, moved over under the 'ocaml' name along with oasis-db
<hcarty> adrien: In large part to encourage external contributions
<pippijn> oasis is not very active?
<adrien> hcarty: I'm going to wonder if I'm the only one happy with the forge's VCS features
<adrien> OTOH gildor was a driving force behind fusionforge
<pippijn> the last real commit was 2012-08-22
<adrien> maybe not the most driving one but definitely active there
<hcarty> pippijn: oasis is fairly stable for what it currently supports. Most new development would be to add features or fix bugs.
<pippijn> yes
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<pippijn> hcarty: I added a hack so that .nw files are also recognised
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<coldpizza72i> Are splay heaps and splay trees different things?
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<wieczyk> Is here defined any function for converting BatEnum.t to list, I cannot find any in Batteries.
<coldpizza72i> does ocaml have @ syntax line haskell?
<wieczyk> The "as" keyword
<coldpizza72i> wieczyk: me i presume?
<wieczyk> Yes, the haskell's at-symbol is ocaml's as-keyowrd
<coldpizza72i> wieczyk: http://ideone.com/35J7lK
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<Qrntz> coldpizza72i, are you rewriting an originally Haskell algorithm or do you think OCaml actually accepts any Haskell syntax?
<coldpizza72i> Qrntz: I'm attempting to rewrite it
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<Qrntz> well… it'd need some work before it can be a valid OCaml program
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<coldpizza72i> Qrntz: how much work do you think?
<coldpizza72i> right now the compiler is complaining about the as keyword
<Qrntz> it's just the start of what it will complain about
<Qrntz> hold on
<_habnabit> wieczyk, List.of_enum
<Qrntz> coldpizza72i, http://ideone.com/n15KdP
<Qrntz> signature mismatch but at least it doesn't rant on syntax
<coldpizza72i> thanks
<Qrntz> compare your original one with this one and you'll spot the differences
<Qrntz> you're welcome
<Qrntz> (also, weird indentation)
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