adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml-lang.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<jimi_hendrix> what is the most idiomatic way of checking if a string is just numeric characters?
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<jimi_hendrix> nvm, figured something nice out
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<cornihilio> I know a bit of lisp and haskell, and I want to learn ocaml very quickly in the next few days. what books should I read? what should I do?
<cornihilio> I am using this emacs mode, is that okay?: http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/u3-ocaml/emacs/index.html or is it too outdated/there exists a better version?
<destrius> tuareg-mode is probably better
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<cornihilio> destrius: okay, I switched to that. thanks for the suggestion!
<cornihilio> are there any particularly good books on ocaml?
<cornihilio> on amazon nothing stands out
<hongboz> cornihilio: the oriely ocaml book
<hongboz> cornihilio: the official caml-mode is good enough.
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<cornihilio> hongboz: thank you!
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<destrius> cornihilio: there's an online book on standard ml (sml) at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/smlbook/, it could be useful for leaning about ml's in general. sml syntax has some differences from ocaml though
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<_andre> does anyone know of a reason why caml_named_value() would return NULL for an exception registered with Callback.register_exception?
<Kakadu> maybe YOu dont need caml_named_value?
<Kakadu> > caml_failwith(s), where s is a null-terminated C string (with type char *), raises exception Failure with argument s.
<Kakadu> ooops, it not you wnated
<_andre> that works but i want to raise my own exception
<_andre> never saw that happen before with the bindings i wrote
<Kakadu> So you use something like:
<Kakadu> > exception Error of string
<Kakadu> > let _ = Callback.register_exception "test exception" (Error "any string")
<Kakadu> > void raise_error(char * msg)
<Kakadu> > {
<Kakadu> > caml_raise_with_string(*caml_named_value("test exception"), msg);
<Kakadu> > }
<Kakadu> ?
<_andre> yeah
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<_andre> hmm if i call Callback.register_exception from an exported function then it works as expected
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<_andre> so the "let _ = ..." isn't being executed
<_andre> for some reason
<flux> _andre, do you have a library you package as .cma?
<flux> well, the point is, that if the final executable doesn't use some .cmo from the .cma, the .cmo doesn't get linked, thus its toplevel statements don't get evaluated
<flux> lablgtk works around this problem by providing a separate findlib package for the hooking-things-.cmo
<flux> but I think you can work it around by making sure you use that hooking module from every other module or something. maybe it's not too easy.
<_andre> yeah i just noticed that just calling any non-"external" function in the module makes it work
<_andre> well an easy way is to define "external stub_foo : ..." and then let foo () = stub_foo ()
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<_andre> assuming foo is a function that must be called whenever the module is used
<_andre> i guess never noticing this before was just "luck"
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<companion_cube> sometimes I with functional programming would promote STL-like iterators
<Kakadu> companion_cube: You want to break in the middle of iteration?
<companion_cube> I would like, yeah, to be able to iterate on a container without knowing its implementation
<Qrntz> companion_cube, what about Batteries' enums?
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<companion_cube> that looks nice
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<companion_cube> I should use it next time :)
<flux> well, stl iterators are not only about breaking out of iteration
<flux> you can do operations such as 'remove the element pointed by iterator from container'
<flux> and iterate backwards
<Kakadu> smells like zippers
<flux> there was this ocaml data structure library, but I haven't heard a lot of it lately, so perhaps it isn't anymore active. reins.
<flux> I've never used it, though
<companion_cube> it's more that the language does not really allow for this kind of things at the type level
<companion_cube> for iterators to be practical you need an easy conversion from the iterator to the element it points ot
<flux> why wouldn't ocaml allow that in type level?
<flux> you mean ocaml cannot return mutable references?
<flux> I don't think that's a requirement for useful iterators
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<companion_cube> in C++, you can use an iterator as a pointer to elements, and by using -> instead of . you can use it almost as the element
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<thelema> companion_cube: if you'd like to build a C++-style iterator infrastructure with all the different types of iterators (forward,backward,read-only,random-access,sequential,etc.), I'd be interested in it for batteries
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<companion_cube> well, I don't even use batteries at the moment :/
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<thelema> companion_cube: try out batteries' enum, then, and let me know what you think.
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<Qrntz> are there any existing library bindings using SWIG?
<Qrntz> I've read the manual but didn't know about the Coherence bindings, thanks
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<bru> Good evening!
<bru> I got a bit of a problem with omake: I'd like to build a .cmx (or a .o) in a subfolder (called parser). This parser.cmx will then be used to build the main program in the parent directory..
<bru> However, I do not know how to tell omake to build this .cmx with an OMakefile…
<bru> Indeed, I get : * omake error:
<bru> File /usr/lib/omake/build/OCaml.om: line 1041, characters 4-70
<bru> Do not know how to build "src/parser/parser.o" required for "src/cfgen.opt"
<thelema> bru: so you've told it that cfgen.opt depends on parser.o
<thelema> but it doesn't know how to build parser.o; is there a parser.c?
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<thelema> sorry, it's been forever since I've messed with omake
<bru> thelema, actually I have to build it from several cmx with "ocamlopt -pack -o parser,cmx *cmx
<bru> "
<thelema> so your parser.cmx is a pack of many other modules...
<bru> and part of those *ml files themselves are generated with "ocamllex some_file.mll"!
<bru> yes
<thelema> sure, iirc, omake handles .mll just fine
<bru> I put an OCamlGeneratedFiles(the mll files) directive in OMakeFile for them
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<bru> but then… how to build cmxes from those ml, and then merge them in parser, with omake?
<thelema> what's the exact OCamlGeneratedFiles?
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<thelema> you probably want to use OCamlPackage(parser, foo bar baz) to build your parser.cmx
<bru> ohh ok
<bru> thelema, the comments are from the default OMakefile:
<bru> # Generated files
<bru> #
<bru> # Workaround for the fact that ocamldep does not pay attention to .mll
<bru> # and .mly files.
<bru> #
<bru> OCamlGeneratedFiles(config.ml initial.ml intermediate.ml)
<thelema> and you have .mll files corresponding? ok.
<thelema> no problem there
<bru> I'll try the OCamPackage, it sound good
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<kevinlu310> I installed ocaml on my Ubuntu already, but why I still get error like this when I was trying to build some code: make: ocamlopt.opt: Command not found
<thelema> I guess ubuntu doesn't install ocamlopt.opt, which is just the native-code compiled native-code compiler
<thelema> there might be a package for it, I don't recall. You can change the makefile to use just plain ocamlopt and it will compile the same, just a bit slower
<adrien> well, most of the time it's just as fast
<kevinlu310> Thanks. I'll try.
<adrien> the only times I've seen a difference, the file was already taking > 500ms in ocamlopt (byte-compiled)
<kevinlu310> yeah. It works now.
<thelema> kevinlu310: what package are you trying to compile, btw?
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<kevinlu310> thelema: just some data processing codes for analysing some servers availability
<thelema> internal code?
<kevinlu310> I don't think so.
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<kevinlu310> I downloaded those on public site
<thelema> I'm asking so there can be some followup to fix the source
<thelema> depending on ocamlopt.opt isn't kosher
<beginner42> has someone here installed lablgtk2 on a ubuntu machine?
<thelema> beginner42: I have lablgtk2 installed on my ubuntu machine
<beginner42> thelema: i downloaded it from http://lablgtk.forge.ocamlcore.org/, but ocamlfind does not find the package lablgtk2
<thelema> yes, the default packages don't include findlib support
<beginner42> how can i change that, so finds lablgtk2?
<beginner42> so it finds
<thelema> actually, maybe you just have to install as 'make install-findlib'
<beginner42> there s no such target in the makefile
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<thelema> ah, maybe it's only in my version... I wonder where I got mine from... probably svn
<thelema> what version are you downloading?
<beginner42> 2.16.0
<thelema> is there a META file?
<beginner42> yes
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<thelema> ah, install-findlib is my local target. the official target is 'make findlib-install'
<beginner42> no, again no rule to make target
* thelema downloads 2.16 to look
<thelema> ok, it looks like findlib-install is the default; did you run 'make install'?
<thelema> and did it give you an error about permissions to the something site-lib something?
<beginner42> make install fails with ocamlfind not found
<thelema> ok, that's progress. is ocamlfind in your path?
<thelema> beginner42: it would have helped if you had started this conversation with your last message
<beginner42> i cannot tell why but now its listed in ocamlfind list :)
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<beginner42> thelema: thanks a lot
<thelema> beginner42: n/p
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<cornihilio> what does "@" mean in ocaml?
<thelema> cornihilio: in documentation it starts a tag
<adrien> val (@) : 'a list -> 'a list -> 'a list
<adrien> List concatenation.
<adrien> :P
<thelema> it also means list concatenation
<adrien> as an operator
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<cornihilio> adrien: where did you get that info?
<cornihilio> I'm in the ocaml repl and I kind of wish there was something like ":t foo" from ghci
<thelema> # (@);;
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<thelema> - : 'a list -> 'a list -> 'a list = <fun>
<cornihilio> thelema: awesome! thank you!
<thelema> only the type is immediately available in the toplevel
<thelema> but the real name for operators is (foo)
<cornihilio> ?
<thelema> the text saying "list concatenation" isn't available from the toplevel
<thelema> let (|>) x f = f x
<thelema> 3 |> string_of_int
<thelema> the operator is called with "|>", but to refer to it, you need (|>)
<cornihilio> ah okay
<cornihilio> wait, what? this is list concatenation?: [1,2,3] @ [4,5,6];; - : (int * int * int) list = [(1, 2, 3); (4, 5, 6)]
<wieczyk> How to hide module in .mlpack ?
<thelema> yes, although you concatenated two one-element lists
<thelema> # [1;2;3] @ [4;5;6];;
<thelema> - : int list = [1; 2; 3; 4; 5; 6]
<cornihilio> oh right; I got confused and used python syntax
<cornihilio> sorry, my mistake
<cornihilio> thank you!
<thelema> you're welcome
<thelema> wieczyk: I don't know. I avoid pack
<wieczyk> Why? What do you prefer when releasing library?
<thelema> wieczyk: BatFoo
<wieczyk> For me it is ugly ;]
<wieczyk> Especially when nested modules are allowed.
<thelema> Bat.Foo is much better than BatFoo?
<wieczyk> Batteries.Foo
<thelema> module Batteries = struct module Foo = BatFoo ... end
<wieczyk> Yes... you can do it.. but it does not have any ellegance.
<wieczyk> Exporting BatFoo and doing some alias because it was impossible to hierarchize files in the normal way.
<thelema> elegant would be for OCaml to have directories emulate modules
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<wieczyk> Yes.
<wieczyk> I heard that, maybe from you, that in next release the namespaces will be provied
<wieczyk> with which we will achieve this (is it a correct english sentence?)
<thelema> correct English, but looking a bit more unlikely since shortly after OUD
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<wieczyk> I need to take some exercises ;/
<wieczyk> This blog entry is nice. Is anywhere available list of ocaml problems?
<wieczyk> In this blog entry I could read about ineffective closure allocations.
<thelema> problems?
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<wieczyk> Maybe other word would be more adequate than problems.
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<wieczyk> This list is very long and there are many problems, serious and not serious. I would like to read about compiler defects, like those in this blog entry.
<wieczyk> Greping this list is too much work ;//
<wieczyk> btw: where is wmeyer?
<yezariaely> if my module filename is my_test.ml How can I access it in ocaml? {My_test, MyTest, My_Test, Mytest} didn't work.
<wieczyk> I think that My_test
<yezariaely> wieczyk: thx, my mistake. Forgot to compile the very module ... :(
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<jimi_hendrix> is there a way to tell if a string is just alphabet characters without having to resort to regex? my google foo has failed me.
<thelema> String.fold_left
<wieczyk> You need to use ocaml-batteries.
<wieczyk> To get BatChar.is_letter
<thelema> unfortunately, batteries doesn't have string search functions that take predicates; I'd be happy to take contributions; I almost wrote them myself, but have been doing other work on batteries today
<wieczyk> You are a batteries developer?
<wieczyk> Are you...
<thelema> yes.
<wieczyk> Good job.
<thelema> no, terrible job lately. 2.0 should have been released 10 months ago
<wieczyk> Ok, let me correct my self.
<wieczyk> Terrible job, please understand what is a deadline.
<thelema> :)
<wieczyk> and how it is important to popularize ocaml
<wieczyk> Can I help with Batteries
<wieczyk> do you have any TODO etc?
<thelema> first task, go through that list and remove anything that's already done. :)
<wieczyk> OK. I will finish one thing and then analyze this list.
<wieczyk> bleh git
<thelema> git is your friend.
<wieczyk> I prefer hg
<wieczyk> In last work I had to switch from svn to hg and it was very easy
<wieczyk> then I had to switch from hg to git and it was terrible for me.
<wieczyk> I am not saying git is bat, but it has advanced interface.
<thelema> the interface has improved, but yes, it still has its rough edges
<wieczyk> bad8
<wieczyk> bad*
<wieczyk> too much batteries today ;
<wieczyk> ;]
<wieczyk> Why equal for BatOption is in todo list? It is not enough to put let equal a b = compare a b == 0
<wieczyk> ?
<thelema> no, because if we're comparing `Set.t option`s, we need custom comparison
<wieczyk> Ok, I understand the problem.
<thelema> looking, it seems there is Option.eq, which just needs to be renamed to equal
<thelema> (as well as any other .eq functions)
<wieczyk> OK
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<thelema> it'd be great if you could help with this; having compare and equal functions for all types (that it makes sense for)
<wieczyk> OK, I will try to do first patch
<wieczyk> but give me 10-20 minutes for my stuff.
<jimi_hendrix> thelema, String.fold_left doesnt seem to exist for me? is that also a batteries thing?
<thelema> jimi_hendrix: oops, maybe it isn't in the stdlib...
<wieczyk> thelema: any plans to replace stdlib with batteries?
<wieczyk> by*
<companion_cube> aww, mutation in ocaml is slow :(
<thelema> wieczyk: that's what batteries is, a stdlib replacement. There's little to no chance that it'll be put into the inria SVN with the rest of the compiler
<thelema> but there's the possibility that it gets adopted as part of a community ocaml distribution
<jimi_hendrix> thelema, i dont think it is.
<jimi_hendrix> i am somewhat disappointed with OCaml's standard string api
<wieczyk> thelema: Yeah, some compiler distribution seems to be enough.
<wieczyk> jimi_hendrix: everyone is disapointed with ocaml stdlib, it is why batteries exists.
<thelema> jimi_hendrix: yes, it's not in the stdlib. Using what's in the stdlib, there's 'let ok = ref true in String.iter (function 'a'..'z' | 'A'..'Z' -> () | _ -> ok := false) str; !ok
<jimi_hendrix> thank you
<thelema> jimi_hendrix: you're welcome
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<wieczyk> thelema: OK
<wieczyk> thelema: I have while
<wieczyk> so the first task is to use 'equal' with can be parametrized by predicate for containers.
<wieczyk> Should I use a default branch?
<wieczyk> btw: how to generate tags for ocaml?
<thelema> yes, use master branch of github
<thelema> what do you mean by tags? TAGS file? version control tagging?
<wieczyk> The tags for vim.
<wieczyk> the ctags for ocaml
<thelema> ocamltags
<wieczyk> How to use it, looks like crazy program for emacs
<wieczyk> or well I read whole --help
<wieczyk> Hm, --help looks like help for emacs
<thelema> try `ocamltags *.ml*`
<wieczyk> Works.
<wieczyk> well
<wieczyk> I dont know how to use relative directories with this tools. I am in batteries main directory and run 'ocamltags src/*/*.ml*' but it does not save the 'src' part of path
<wieczyk> I would like to not change vim cwd ;/
<yezariaely> ../src/* ?
<wieczyk> ?
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<wieczyk> I have problem that the generated TAGS file does not have whole path so my editor cannot do correct jumps.
<yezariaely> argh...
<yezariaely> sorry
<yezariaely> context missing ^^
<yezariaely> better of to bed, then ...
<thelema> looks like you should have TAGS files for each dir, and have vim search among them
<wieczyk> ugly ;/
<wieczyk> better to improve ocamltags.
<wieczyk> I hope it is not a lisp terror.
<thelema> wieczyk: good luck. I bet it's elisp
<wieczyk> ;/
<wieczyk> WHY, GOD TELL ME WHY ELISP.
<jimi_hendrix> eww elisp
<thelema> you can try otags instead: http://askra.de/software/otags/
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<Yoric> wieczyk: Because you haven't contributed to etags.
<Yoric> I meant efuns.
<Yoric> (unless you have, of course)
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<wieczyk> I will check it later.
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<wieczyk> thelema: btw: for some modules the equal function is already defined by functor in BatNumeric but it is hidden by interface.
<wieczyk> thelema: for example batBool.mli does not have equal but it is provided (by functor) in batBool.ml
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<wieczyk> Same problem in bigint. Is there any way to connect interface of module generated by functor with type of this functor. When someone add some new function to this function then all .mli files have to be alligned.
<wieczyk> Could we do similar trick with functor as in .ml file?
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<wieczyk> module type BaseBig_int = module type of BatNumeric.Make(...)
<wieczyk> include Basebig_int
<wieczyk> ?
<thelema> yes, please export those
<thelema> I'd rather have proper documentation than use functor magic to get correct interface
<thelema> which means we have to explicitly add the `equal` functions
<thelema> If there were a way to have both, I'd be on it like white on rice
<wieczyk> Hehe.
<wieczyk> Maybe it could be easy to write some tool which checks if exports are correct.
<wieczyk> Compiler generates .annot so maybe it is possible without pain.
<thelema> wieczyk: have a look st src/batteries_compattest.ml
<thelema> I believe this could be extended for the verification you're thinking of
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<wieczyk> btw: should be the List.mem extended to have some optiona parameter for equality predicate?
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<thelema> wieczyk: probably, although optional parameters can still cause backwards compatibility issues
<wieczyk> I think that already some functions in stdlib are extended by batteries.
<wieczyk> One time I had problem with that, I did not remember which one.
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<wieczyk> Probably something in BatList.
<thelema> a few are; we're trying to fix that as we find them, thus batteries_compattest.
<wieczyk> Ok, first I will provide equal for all types.
<wieczyk> Now sleep
<wieczyk> cya, thanks for possibility to contribute sth to bat.
<thelema> I don't think anything in batList is incompatible with stdlib because the compattest checks List. It doesn't check Format, Hashtbl, Map, Printf, Scanf, Set, Stack)
<thelema> wieczyk: no problem
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<cornihilio> I don't get this: max list l = List.fold left max 0 l
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<cornihilio> is that the same as max list l = List.fold left (max 0) l
<thelema> umm, are you missing some _'s?
<cornihilio> me?
<thelema> do you mean let max_list l = List.fold_left max 0 l?
<cornihilio> oh yes, yes I am. I'm copying from the oreilly pdf.
<thelema> ok. No, these are not the same at all.
<thelema> in the first case, fold_left is passed 3 arguments
<thelema> in the second case, it's passed two arguments (max 0) and l
<cornihilio> I don't get how in the first one it knows that max 0 is the function to apply over l
<thelema> max 0 isn't the function to apply over l
<thelema> fold_left takes three arguments, a function, an initial value and a list
<thelema> it takes the first element of the list and the initial value, and reduces them with the function
<thelema> to a single value
<thelema> etc.
<cornihilio> okay, that makes sense.
<cornihilio> thank you!
<thelema> btw, this max_list only works properly for non-negative lists
<cornihilio> why is that?
<thelema> i.e. max_list [-1; -4] returns 0
<cornihilio> ah, right.
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<Anarchos> thelema in which base ?
<thelema> Anarchos: 10
<Anarchos> thelema then you got a problem :)
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<beginner42> adrien: hi, i finally got all the missing libs working, but now get a malformed log file exception
<beginner42> in setup.log
<thelema> beginner42: some error from oasis?
<thelema> more details needed. I don't know what causes malformed log file exceptions
<thelema> so the whole error will help.
<beginner42> i did ocaml setup.ml -configure, ocaml setup.ml -build, worked just fine, but ocaml setup.ml -install gets me this exception
<beginner42> E: Malformed log file 'path/lablwebkit-1.8.2/setup.log' at line 1
<thelema> ok, that's good context. what package?
<thelema> lablwebkit 1.8.2, I guess
<beginner42> yes
<thelema> are you using ocaml 4.00?
<beginner42> yes
<thelema> you probably have a setup.ml file generated by an old version of oasis; the fix is to regenerate the setup.ml file by running 'oasis setup'. to do this, you'll have to install oasis.
<beginner42> is oasis available through opam?
<thelema> yes
<beginner42> it worked better except for this warning
<beginner42> ocamlfind: [WARNING] You have installed DLLs but the directory /path/.opam/4.00.0/lib/stublibs is not mentioned in ld.conf
<thelema> you should probably edit your .opam/4.00.0/lib/ld.conf file (or somewhere there) to include the stublibs directory
<thelema> ocaml has an ld.conf file to help it find C stubs
<thelema> you get this warning if ocamlfind installs stubs to a directory that's not in that ld.conf file
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<beginner42> i have never had to deal with that, how do i have to edit the ld.conf file?
<thelema> just a text file
<thelema> one path per line
<beginner42> the path pointing to which stublibs directory?
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<thelema> /path/.opam/4.00.0/lib/stublibs
<thelema> the one in the error message
<beginner42> the ld.conf didnt exist so i created one, and then made ocaml setup.ml -install again but now i get the error that META already exists
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<thelema> no, you should find the ld.conf file
<thelema> you don't need to reinstall
<thelema> /home/thelema/ocamlbrew/ocaml-4.00.0/lib/ocaml/ld.conf
<thelema> that's where my active ld.conf file is. but I don't use opam
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<thelema> to use lablwebkit properly, you'll have to fix the ld.conf issue, but the install process is complete
<beginner42> fixed it, was in the wrong directory
<thelema> ok, good.
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<beginner42> can you give me a minimal example to test if lablwebkit works properly?
<thelema> you should only need to fix this once.
<thelema> I don't know how to use lablwebkit, so can't help there
<beginner42> ok. and thanks a lot for your help :)
<thelema> n/p
<beginner42> thelema: can i ask you for how long you have been working with ocaml?
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