adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml-lang.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<spherox> are there optimization flags for ocamlopt, or does it automatically compile w/ full optimization on?
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<pippijn> is there a SHA-3 implementation for ocaml?
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<flux> if I needed to find out, I would look at the crypto libraries for ocaml, possibly openssl/gnutls bindings..
<pippijn> openssl doesn't have a SHA-3 implementation
<pippijn> at least the one on my system
<pippijn> maybe their HEAD/tip/whatever does
<pippijn> SHA-3 was announced on 2012-10-03
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<pippijn> ah, -02
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<flux> -O2?
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<pippijn> flux: 2012-10-02
<pippijn> it's a new algorithm
<flux> right
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<Kakadu> hey
<Kakadu> I'm a little bit confused about Genlex
<Kakadu> Is it possible to desable generation of token like (Float _)?
<Kakadu> I ask because I have very bad text to parse
<Kakadu> i.e. "13.Nge2 d5 14.exd5 exd5 "
<Kakadu> And lexer fails beacuse it thanks that "14.e" should be a float
<flux> I don't think it's very flexible
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<flux> if Genlex doesn't work for you, you can write your own. but the ocamllex is quite easy to use.
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<Kakadu> flux: I wanted to use recusive descent embedded to camlp4o
<flux> you'd rather use a parser than a lexer?
<Kakadu> wut?
<flux> recursive descent, doesn't sound like a lexer to me
<flux> or does camlp4o always use Genlex as its lexer?
<flux> I haven't really used camlp4..
<Kakadu> flux: I have seen examples only with Genlex, but I'll try to hack it somehow
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<thomasga> does batteries work under windows ?
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<invariant> Is there something like Fabric (Python) for OCaml?
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<flux> it would help if you told what Fabric is :)
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<invariant> flux, Fabric is a Python (2.5 or higher) library and command-line tool for streamlining the use of SSH for application deployment or systems administration tasks. It provides a basic suite of operations for executing local or remote shell commands (normally or via sudo) and uploading/downloading files, as well as auxiliary functionality such as prompting the running user for input, or aborting execution.
<flux> I don't think there is anything like that for ocaml
<Yoric> So, I have at hand a student interested in getting started with OCaml by writing a parser.
<Yoric> Which parser generator should I suggest these days?
<flux> I think Merlin was nice
<flux> better all around than ocamlyacc
<Yoric> Anything is better than ocamlyacc :)
<flux> hmm, it's not merlin the name I think..
<Qrntz> it's Menhir
<flux> yes :)
<Qrntz> you confused me for a bit there
<flux> yoric, well, I think gnu bison isn't better at writing parser than ocamlyacc :)
* Yoric wonders if he can place a good pun involving stone age (ocamlyacc, bison, ...) and Stonehedge.
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<invariant> Yoric, if you want to interest a student, give them parser combinators.
<invariant> Yoric, yacc level tools are low-level and only of interest for speed.
<Yoric> Actually, he's not my student.
<invariant> Actually, a good project would be to build a compiler from parser combinators to yacc.
<invariant> That is, for the part of the grammar for which that is actually possible.
<invariant> Naturally, such analysis would have to be done automatically with some maximum execution time of 30 minutes for example.
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<Yoric> Well, tell that to InfinityL :)
<Yoric> Although I understand that he only wants something simple to get started.
<flux> parser generators are nice in that they can produce other kind of diagnostics than doesn't compile/does compile/infinite loop
<InfinityL> ah Yoric....you are here :-)
<invariant> flux, which is why good software uses both.
<flux> invariant, uses both? both parser generators and parser combinators?
<invariant> flux, first a quick input assuming everything is ok, and then when there is a failure, reparse again.
<invariant> flux, (with the slower approach)
<flux> invariant, ..at run time
<invariant> flux, yes
<flux> invariant, I mean that parser combinators are able to tell about mistakes even before running it
<InfinityL> ok...i think I need to look at your earlier discussion to understand what you guys are talking about....gimme a sec
<invariant> flux, most software projects only implement one of the two.
<invariant> flux, either a slow parser with good error messages or a fast parser with broken error messages.
<InfinityL> invariant flux: Ummm....don't mind me asking this...but what are parse combinators?
<flux> invariant, but don't you get close to best of both worlds with lexer+parser generator?
<flux> invariant, basically you have simple functions and you build the parser out of them
<flux> oops, infinityl
<flux> infinityl, for example you have a function for expressing 'is the next character the same as X?'
<flux> and then a function for expression 'is this followed by rule1 OR rule2?'
<InfinityL> ohk...
<invariant> flux, I have never seen someone do that, so I assume it's not practical.
<flux> invariant, you've never seen anyone use parser generators?
<invariant> flux, no, use parser generators in such a way that the errors produced are absolutely fantastic.
<InfinityL> Is there any good place (links or books) I can look at to work on designing a simple compiler (gotta do it by next weekend) for a subset of a language?
<flux> invariant, I don't think I've ever seen a parser that produced absolutely fastatic errors, full stop.
<InfinityL> If its too much to do within that time can you point me to how I can build a reursive descent parser using OCaml ?
<invariant> InfinityL, by next weekend?
<invariant> InfinityL, is this an assignment for university?
<InfinityL> invariant: 25th...kind of but not exactly
<Yoric> InfinityL: I thought you just wanted the parser?
<InfinityL> I told my prof I didn't like the her assignments that much as they were using java and she told me to suggest something that I was interested to do
<InfinityL> I thought trying out something in OCaml would be a good idea
<InfinityL> Yoric: Yeah, actually the parser is sufficient
<InfinityL> invariant: you seem surprised that it was a uni assignment! :)
<invariant> InfinityL, I asked whether it was one.
<invariant> InfinityL, I did not get an answer.
<invariant> InfinityL, hence, no surprise.
<invariant> InfinityL, only surprise was that there was no answer.
<InfinityL> invariant: nope....something I'm interested in doing and showcasing
<invariant> InfinityL, there is nothing special about parsing.
<invariant> Sure, you can do a PhD. on it.
<invariant> But you can also become an F1 race car driver.
<InfinityL> if you wanna know if I'm gonna get marks for it...yeah! I might!
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<InfinityL> invariant: basically we are supposed to implement a recursive descent parser in Java...I missed that lab. So I decided to do it in OCaml instead....if you've got something interesting that I could work on in a week it'd be really helpful :-)(of course other than parsing)
<invariant> InfinityL, sounds like a good plan to get an F unless you agreed upon this already.
<InfinityL> :P
<InfinityL> is it that bad?
<invariant> InfinityL, if you did not discuss this, it's a very stupid step to make.
<invariant> InfinityL, if you did, then there is still no reason to expect anyone to care about it.
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<InfinityL> invariant: chuck it then....lets forget about the assignment and try to do something interesting then :-)
<InfinityL> And don't worry this is just some bonus thingy...not really gonna affect my grade that much ;)
<InfinityL> invariant flux : Some good place to get started with parse generators please? Sounds fun to try out!
<InfinityL> *parser generator
<Yoric> InfinityL: You could start with http://dypgen.free.fr/dypgen-doc.pdf, for instance.
<Yoric> There are many parser generators, this is one of them.
<Yoric> Another one, suggested above, is Menhir.
<Yoric> However, I can't find a nice manual.
<pippijn> ^ menhir manual
<Yoric> pippijn: That doesn't feel the "nice" requirement :)
<pippijn> why?
<pippijn> it's pretty complete
<pippijn> minor things are missing
<InfinityL> yoric: thanks, gotta somehow beat my weakness at Compiler design ;)
<InfinityL> Hopefully ocaml will be the way to do it
<Yoric> pippijn: Definitely not beginner-oriented, though.
<invariant> pippijn, it's already out of date too.
<pippijn> I don't know.. I used it as a reference
<pippijn> what parts are out of date?
<invariant> pippijn, it states that there are no GADTs in OCaml.
<pippijn> ah that
<pippijn> well yeah
<pippijn> but that's not out of date
<invariant> pippijn, doesn't OCaml have them in version 4?
<pippijn> it just explains why they couldn't implement the type tricks they wanted to
<invariant> pippijn, 'does not currently'
<pippijn> yes, they should have written "at the time of writing"
<pippijn> but I'm done talking to you
<pippijn> good luck
<invariant> pippijn, did I say something wrong?
<invariant> invariant, I am not connected to InfinityL.
<pippijn> yes
<InfinityL> invariant: O_o
<invariant> pippijn, like what?
<pippijn> you're calling an entire document out of date because of a slight mis-wording
<pippijn> in a footnote.. or something
<invariant> It's 99.9% up to date.
<invariant> Still out of date.
<invariant> It's certainly not a reason that one cannot use it.
<invariant> In fact, given the amount of documentation which exists for other packages, it's documented quite well.
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<pippijn> watch your words
* adrien puts his glasses on
<InfinityL> what would be good reference for parser combinators?
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<scp> is it an error to give two records the same field names, such as in http://pastebin.com/7kghBqiS
<yezariaely> scp: so what does the compiler say?
<scp> with that, the expression "Leaf {elem = a}" yields the error "Error: Some record field labels are undefined: left right"
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<yezariaely> ah ok, then the error message is difficult to understand
<yezariaely> yes, it is an error.
<yezariaely> prefix your fields somehow. or put them in different modules.
<scp> x_X that's frustrating
<scp> thanks
<yezariaely> yes, it is one of the "problems" ocaml has.
<yezariaely> Though with prefixing/modulepacking it rarely occurs.
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<scp> eh, I run into this in haskell too
<adrien> scp: that is quite likely to evolve in the coming months but for now, how could the type inference mechanism guess which record type is the right one?
<scp> the "Leaf" constructor should be a proper hint here
<scp> I dunno how the type inference algorithm works, but one could imagine a system where the invokation of a function taking an argument of type 't means "what's coming next is a 't"
<scp> s/invok/invoc
<scp> it is just a common use case to have a bunch of variations of a sum type to have a common field. For example, to all have a "name" field
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<yezariaely> adrien: it could theoretically be possible to choose the right one by name of the fields + length of the record. OCaml does not support record subtyping, doesn't it?
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<yezariaely> then still, the types of the fields might be different.
<yezariaely> The type checker should be capable of that, shouldn't it?
<scp> or maybe it could check for ambiguity in fieldnames when they types are declared, rather than when they're used
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<ker2x> friendly greetings \o/
<ker2x> i need lablgtksourceview2.cmxa to compiole frama-c. it wasn't in the .deb package so i compiled lablgtk-2.14.2 but i still doesn't have this .cmxa file. any idea how to create it please ?
<ker2x> configure: WARNING: lablgtksourceview2.cmxa not found
<ker2x> configure: error: gui requested but /usr/lib/ocaml/lablgtk2/lablgtksourceview2.cmxa missing.
<ker2x> i have .cma, .cmxs, .a and .so
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<ker2x> problem solved
<ker2x> cd src; make opt; sudo make install
<ker2x> now i have another error
<ker2x> pff
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<ker2x> changed ocaml version :)
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<thelema> ker2x: make clean? compiled files aren't compatible across ocaml versions
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<Leonidas> hi
<thelema> hi
<Leonidas> I tried using opam switch and I see a number of ocaml 4.00.1 releases
<Leonidas> can I just install 4.00.1+raspberrypi and if yes, what does raspberrypi do?
<thelema> raspberrypi is a tiny computer - google it for more information
<Leonidas> yes, I am running opam on it :)
<Leonidas> but I was confused what to specify
<thelema> ok, then yes - you should use that compiler. It has some patches to the mainline to make it work nicely with raspberrypi
<Leonidas> opam switch 4.00.1+raspberrypi ?
<Leonidas> maybe the manual could be a bit more specific that it is possible to use the term in ( )
<thelema> you can file a bug here: https://github.com/OCamlPro/opam/issues
<Leonidas> heh, I see the patch enables ocamlopt on raspbian. And there I was hoping to be the first ocaml user on the Pi :)
<Leonidas> thelema: great, will do.
<orbitz> How does #use "topfind" actually work?
<orbitz> Does it serach OCAMLPATH?
<thelema> orbitz: you can read the topfind file for details
<orbitz> I'm trying to figure out why #use "topfind" isn't working for me
<thelema> /usr/local/lib/ocaml/topfind
<Leonidas> Not to come off as a pessimist, I also have to mention that I quite like the docs and they are quite pretty to look at, so someone did a good job :)
<thelema> (or wherever your compiler library is)
<orbitz> thelema: Is that hardcoded into where #use looks or can I modify it?
<thelema> orbitz: there might be a path for #use... try modifying OCAMLLIB
<orbitz> hrm OCAMLLIB appears to take 1 dir, not several
<orbitz> There is OCAMLPATH but I think that is just for ocamlfind
<Leonidas> ohh, what a pity, I missed a round number: https://github.com/OCamlPro/opam/issues/299
<thelema> Leonidas: :)
<Leonidas> thelema: do you know how long a build takes, on the raspberry pi? I am considering going to sleep in the meantime
<thelema> orbitz: let filename = find_in_path !Config.load_path name in
<thelema> Leonidas: from what I've heard, hours
<orbitz> thelema: is that some batteris magic?
<Leonidas> thelema: ok, so it is exactly what I was expecting :) Thanks.
<thelema> orbitz: it looks like #directory is what you want
<thelema> orbitz: no, that's from the toplevel source.
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<orbitz> thelema: ocamlfind must be doing some magic so you don't need to do "topfind.cmi"
<thelema> no, topfind is a text file
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<orbitz> ah! bastards, they pass no-topfind to teh configure
<thelema> who?
<orbitz> whoever made the findlib package for his OS
<orbitz> this*
<thelema> orbitz: what os?
<orbitz> NixOS
<orbitz> so looks like I need to patch findlib makefile to not try to install the topfind script into the ocaml stddir
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<thelema> that's where it should be for `#use "topfind"` to work
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<fasta> orbitz: did I infect you with the NixOS virus? :-)
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<carl_> hi
<orbitz> thelema: It *has* to be there?
<orbitz> fasta: Hah no, randomly stumbled upon it
<fasta> orbitz: well, I manically tried to convince you of it months ago.
<carl_> do you know a good easy OCaml IDE for windows?
<orbitz> fasta: Ah, in one ear out the other!
<orbitz> fasta: it's fairly nice, expect when it comes to dealing with other languages
<fasta> orbitz: nah, I just planted a seed in your brain, modifying your probability bias.
<fasta> orbitz: especially
<Leonidas> inception?
<fasta> orbitz: or perhaps except
<orbitz> thelema: I'm pretty sure having it in its ow ndir and doing ocaml -I will suffice
<carl_> no one can help me?
<orbitz> carl_: I just use ocaml
<fasta> carl_: in my opinion everything is bad.
<fasta> carl_: the least worst might be Emacs + tuareg-mode.
<Leonidas> same here, and windows is bad to start with :)
<carl_> yes i tried Emacs and i good at least, does exist emacs+tuareg version for windows?
<carl_> is*
<carl_> never mind
<orbitz> fasta: I think best route is to make a program to transform opam packages to Nix packages
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<carl_> i installed emacs and the interpreter but i can not see how to use the tuareg mode
<thelema> carl_: does alt-x, "tuareg-mode" give an error?
<carl_> i heve to open i ml file first?
<carl_> have*
<thelema> carl_: wouldn't hurt, but should work in any buffer
<carl_> now i have open a file ml
<carl_> but i can not evaluete the phrase
<thelema> when you press alt-x, you should see "M-x" in the bottom of the window
<orbitz> BAM! Got topfind working
<orbitz> thanks for the help thelema
<thelema> carl_: then just type "tuareg-mode" (no quotes)
<thelema> orbitz: you're welcome
<carl_> C-x RET RET is undefined
<thelema> no, that's control-x followed by two returns
<carl_> sorry
<thelema> you can also use <esc> x instead of alt-x
<carl_> now i try
<carl_> M-x
<carl_> no command given
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<thelema> M-x tuareg-mode
<thelema> this is what you want to see at the bottom before you press enter
<carl_> good, how to?
<thelema> just type that - Alt-x, t, u, a, r, e, g, -, m, o, d, e
<carl_> M-x tuareg-mode?
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<carl_> :\
<thelema> if it doesn't work, tuareg probably isn't installed
<carl_> where i put the folder "tuareg-2.0.6"
<carl_> ?
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<covi> I have some experience with Haskell; what are some suitable resources for me to learn OCaml?
<thelema> covi: maybe just read the ocaml manual chapters 1-5: http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/index.html
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<covi> thelema: thanks
<thelema> covi: n/p
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