adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml-lang.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<adrien> grrr
<adrien> I'm wondering: suppose I use "ocamlc" to compile or link with gcc
<adrien> will it have some default arguments?
<adrien> yes it has
<adrien> (fuck)
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<pippijn> adrien: you can build them with ocamlc -where or something
<adrien> yeah but I want to keep support for current build systems
<adrien> replacing every call to "ocamlc -c foo.c" with "gcc -I $(ocamlc -where) -c $moreoptions foo.c" is going to be way too much work
<asmanur_> is oasis able to use an installation of ocaml not living in /usr/bin ? it seems that it is always using /usr/bin/ocaml* even though there is no ocaml binaries in /usr/bin
<adrien> it should be using anything that is in your $PATH or accessible through findlib
<adrien> findlib/ocamlfind
<asmanur_> it is not.. when I run ocaml setup.ml -configure the first line is "/usr/bin/ocamlc: file not found"
<asmanur_> oh it seems that it is not regenerating setup.data.
<adrien> yup, that's pretty common
<adrien> if you've configured and built before, you need to clean everything btw
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<adrien> 3 minutes in ocamlbuild's source code and I'm already hating it
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<wmeyer> adrien: what's wrong with ocamlbuild source?
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<adrien> wmeyer: too many comments
<adrien> they make it hard to see the code
<adrien> and it looks a bit weird
<adrien> let f () =
<adrien> if foo then
<adrien> let () = do_lots_of_work () in
<adrien> let () = do_even_more_work () in
<adrien> raise Exit_silentlywith_exit_code (f 42)
<adrien> else
<adrien> ()
<Qrntz> looks like semicolon avoidance
<wmeyer> hmmm, what's wrong with it ( :D )
<adrien> nah, not that
<adrien> the issue is that its *normal* way to work is so raise an exception
<Qrntz> oh
<wmeyer> no, ok, well it looks weird indeed
<adrien> it's very hard to read
<adrien> see Plugin.ml : execute_plugin_if_needed
<wmeyer> but I like ocamlbuild sources
<adrien> I find the control-flow hard to follow
<wmeyer> I don't see big problem there
<wmeyer> well you could use combinator
<wmeyer> and abstract the conditional option in general case
<wmeyer> maybe because I wrote a lot of C++ in past
<wmeyer> and have seen much worse control flow - not involving even exceptions
<adrien> well, I'm trying to remove the reliance on bash for command-line quoting on windows
<wmeyer> great
<adrien> issue is that and in some places, the code seems to try to avoid bash's handling on windows
<wmeyer> did Jonathan Protzenk try this too some time ago?
<adrien> but it's deep at 15 levels of indentation in a function
<adrien> (yes, 15)
<Qrntz> impressive
<adrien> well, I think most people thought about writing command-line creation stuff to avoid calling bash to do it
<adrien> but bash is used for things like "cp", "rm", ...
<adrien> these could be done in ocaml directly without spawning separate processes
<wmeyer> there should be a module abstractig this
<adrien> so I'm checking if the same treatment could be done for other processes
<wmeyer> and then we could functorize
<wmeyer> should - I don't think there is at the moment
<adrien> and it uses that to call "readlink" too
<wmeyer> ping me once you do it, I am happy to look at the patch
<adrien> but on windows you don't even have to care about readlink
<adrien> windows supports readlink but they're unusable in practice
<adrien> sure, it'll take a few days however I think
<wmeyer> I'll also raise a mantis issue about missuse of the std Unix tools on windows
<adrien> well, officialy, cygwin or msys is needed
<adrien> otoh it's not a lot of work and I guess it could provide a nice speedup too
<adrien> at least it can't hurt
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<wmeyer> need to restart Emacs
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<adrien> doh
<adrien> let slurp_with_find path = let find_cmd = try Sys.getenv "OCAMLBUILD_FIND" with _ -> "find" in
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<wmeyer> hi!
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<adrien> o/
<adrien> 15:03 wmeyer : need to restart Emacs
<adrien> 18:33 wmeyer : hi!
<adrien> I knew emacs took time to start but I didn't know it required *that* much time :P
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<wmeyer> adrien: you know. My .emacs spans over few rack servers, and Emacs takes terabyte of memory distributed on cluster to interpret it.
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<wmeyer> adrien: neh, i just forget to log into erc :-)
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<adrien> woah, does you have RMS' mind built into your emacs config? :o
<wmeyer> adrien: it has + some nifty customisations I made through a backdoor M-x doctor
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<wmeyer> currently I'm doing a library for shell commands. Using GADTs and monads, but not attempting to abstract too much and make it too type safe, anybody interested?
<wmeyer> I'd like it to work on Windows too.
<hongboz`> make it run first, then consider type safety ;-)
<wmeyer> hongboz`: I learnt by heart that for some applications it's better to be type safe from the begining, by just describing the interfaces ;-)
<wmeyer> i don't see a problem of not recognised terrain here - this is well known what shell does and how it does
<wmeyer> hongboz`: and neh, this time I'll not use Camlp4 for shell - although I might consider it!
<wmeyer> hongboz`: combinators will suffice here for time being
<hongboz`> sounds great
<hongboz`> actually not, when I was programming in Haskell
<hongboz`> I always try to make programms beautiful
<hongboz`> and I found I am less productive :-()
<wmeyer> sounds <--- that's why I'm looking for somebody (or people) to just help, because I'm going to spend too much time on it - and that's just for running tests now. but i see the gap.
<wmeyer> hongboz`: I know what you mean. Meta programs remain beautiful and yet give the good timing.
<hongboz`> wmeyer: make a native version of fan is now about 20s! light year faster than camlp4!
<hongboz`> and camlp5
<wmeyer> nice!
<hongboz`> do you have any motivation to improve the error message of ocamlbuild?
<hongboz`> I found sometimes ocamlbuild fails without telling anything meaningful
<wmeyer> oh yes, I even though about it today.
<wmeyer> It's well known issue in fact, it annoys me as well.
<hongboz`> yes, I am considering build a new toolchain ocaml{dep,build,doc} using fan...
<wmeyer> could you be more precise what you want to do? (I think the Lisp Curse kicks in now)
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<hongboz`> ocamldep does not work well, and it's quite easy to roll my own..
<hongboz`> for example, if you use some macros, ocamldep can not detect it correctly, like #include
<wmeyer> I don't think it is, ocamldep just requires -pp switch
<hongboz`> no.. it needs the include file, ocamlbuild does not copy it into _build
<hongboz`> you have to tell ocamlbuild explicitly
<wmeyer> well, if ocamldep would know about it it would copy, right?
<wmeyer> I can see your point, but the same justification applies to me for re-inventing my own shell library :-)
<hongboz`> have you used macros like INCLUDE, before?
<wmeyer> and I think I will not do it, and just use netsys or something.
<wmeyer> hongboz`: no
<wmeyer> they are useful
<wmeyer> but never used to, and new Fan Camlp4 is not released so I am waiting for it!
<wmeyer> waiting very anxiously :-)
<hongboz`> wmeyer: I think the beta version will be available after ICFP deadline
<hongboz`> be a little patient
<wmeyer> no, no rush
<hongboz`> how is your dragonkit?
<wmeyer> i am fine, it's being done .
<wmeyer> I hope to have something like MLRISC at least sometime
<hongboz`> MLRISC is an interesting project
<hongboz`> but a number of such projectes went dead..
<wmeyer> yes, it's actually normal. They are academic as such
<wmeyer> but I want really practical yet future proof
<wmeyer> oh, is it possible to have a shell library without whole ocaml-net ?
<wmeyer> shcaml is very nice but it's too complicated for my purpose.
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