adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml-lang.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<Anarchos> I defined ('object,'arrow) category and ('oA,'aA,'oB,'aB) functor types. How to define the type or value 'category of category' (sure i must use -rectypes, but i don't know how to finish)
<wmeyer```> Anarchos: could you be more specific? Maybe pastebin?
<wmeyer```> the easiest way is to define singleton GADT
<wmeyer```> something like this should work: type ('object, 'arrow) category = C : 'a -> ('a, 'arrow) category
<wmeyer```> yes, you have to use GADTS and polymorphic recursion
<Anarchos> syntax error in 3.12.1
<wmeyer```> well, GADTs are >4
<wmeyer```> you can use first class module too, but it will get more hairy
<wmeyer```> perhaps actually there is a clean way in 3.12.1
<Anarchos> wmeyer```: anyway i doubt i can define such a type as 'category of category' in the type system of ocaml. Even in coq ...
<wmeyer```> I doubt you cannot
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<wmeyer```> you'd be surprised what kind of types you can define with dependent typing
<wmeyer```> of course you can
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<wmeyer```> download the tarball of 4.00.1 and look at Omega tests in the testsuite directory
<wmeyer```> it will show you, peano arithemtic built on top of type system with GADTs
<Anarchos> wmeyer```: my goal is to implement a topos with an internal logic and to have a program similar to coq with programs and proofs mixed as first class values
<Anarchos> GADTs seem to be such a leap in the functional programming !
<wmeyer```> Anarchos: did you try dependent types?
<wmeyer```> they type even more functions
<Anarchos> i gave coq a try some months ago. Seem really powerful, and we get program extraction from proof :)
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<wmeyer```> GATDs already require type annotations, where dependent types cause type checking to be undecidable
<ousado> Anarchos: have you seen ATS?
<wmeyer```> ousado: hi!
<ousado> wmeyer```: hi !
<Anarchos> ousado: yes but syntax is too much awful to my eyes ^^
<ousado> how is it?
<ousado> Anarchos: it's nice
<ousado> :P
<Anarchos> too much @ everywhere wich break the flow of reading
<ousado> wmeyer```: how is your project going?
<wmeyer```> ousado: currently I'm working on Indigo :-)
<wmeyer```> tabletop engine, I want to write real world application in OCaml.
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<Anarchos> wmeyer```: i almost finished a verifier for demosntrations in first order logic WITH axiom schemata.... So i soon will be able to formally verified my maths textbooks to chase errors !
<ousado> I see
<wmeyer```> yes
<Anarchos> what is a tabletop engine ?
<wmeyer```> I played with that some time ago, now I'm doing that again
<wmeyer```> Anarchos: client-server software that asists in playing: RPG games, Independent games, Board games, Card games etc. basically an engine with pluggable modules that serves as table for a game. Focus is on Indie games currently.
<wmeyer```> sort of real time table
<wmeyer```> but tailored for particular game each time
<ousado> what are you using for the networking part?
<wmeyer```> Lwt
<wmeyer```> but it's all broken now :-)
<Anarchos> Lwt is not really concurrent , is it ?
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<wmeyer```> yes, I hear, it would be great to have it in a browser
<wmeyer```> i take into account this
<ousado> it's lightweight threads
<ousado> not multicore
<ousado> AFAIK
<wmeyer```> I don't use Lwt for paralerism at the moment, just for non-blocking IO
<wmeyer```> and that's the purpose of Lwt
<companion_cube> it's made for concurrency, not parallelism
<wmeyer```> companion_cube: yes
<ousado> wmeyer```: and are you gonna use js_of_ocaml then?
<wmeyer```> ousado: yes
<ousado> nice
<wmeyer```> but my collegue says he would like to avoid browser
<wmeyer```> for convenience reasons
<wmeyer```> but he is quite controversial some times, so I would like to have a browser client :-)
<ousado> it's becoming less worse to target browsers
<ousado> actually I started to like it
<wmeyer```> ousado: but the project is in flux!
<wmeyer```> so no real result yet
<ousado> and with js_of_ocaml it might be even better than using haxe
<wmeyer```> ousado: never used Haxe, but I agree js_of_ocaml feels really good
<wmeyer```> the advantage is just Haxe targets more
<ousado> yes, although you need platform specific code everywhere
<ousado> but just a bit
<wmeyer```> but you have nice abstractions to separate it
<ousado> yes
<ousado> haxe is getting GADTs now )
<ousado> evolving quite fast, currently
<ousado> and actual pattern matching
<wmeyer```> nice
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<wmeyer```> I need to look at it
<ousado> yes, just lacking tuples to become a less concise ocaml soon
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<wmeyer```> I like the fact it's dragging people half way from JS to OCaml
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<ousado> yes
<ousado> it does, but the user-base is a little problematic
<ousado> almost all game-devs still
<ousado> so the rumor that haxe is mainly useful for writing games doesn't go away
<ousado> but it's fun to see how both google with dart and microsoft with typescript or how they call it are still locked into stone-age :)
<orbitz> conservative movements for such companes
<orbitz> MS has F# at least
<ousado> they should know better
<orbitz> I don't use it but I hope they know I respect it!
<orbitz> Google has Go, but I find Go uninteresting
<wmeyer```> you know, I agree with all of that, but I also understand them really
<ousado> inventing a language with anything akin to support for types but without type-inference in 2011 is completely insane
<wmeyer```> maybe languages like OCaml are a bit too efficient
<wmeyer```> I don't know how to put the right words right now :)
<wmeyer```> and I wish OCaml had bigger userbase
<ousado> yes :(
<wmeyer```> I will go to bed soon :-)
<wmeyer```> but the bottom line is that it's changing
<ousado> http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=ocaml%2C%20F%23&cmpt=q
<ousado> ^ that's a bit sad
<djcoin> I wonder how "haskell" that is more `weird' as a bigger community and loads of package. Financial support by microsoft, maybe more open to change in the core..? I don't know at all. But it sucks, too bad :(
<djcoin> s/as/has
<wmeyer```> because Haskell is lazy and slow! Well not these days, but you got the point.
<wmeyer```> and surely Haskell have more academia, and some little of industry
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<wmeyer```> anyway, gtg, see you tomorrow
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<ousado> wmeyer```: night!
<wmeyer```> ousado: thanks!
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