adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml-lang.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<Kakadu> flux: hey
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<Kakadu> I've done nothing for QML+OCaml last weekend. Maybe you have some good news?
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<flux> I have enjoyed our company pre-christmas on friday, the weekend was non-eventful
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<Kakadu> Oh. Your western holiday are so unpredictable....
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<adrien_oww> flux: slacker!
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<fasta> The TypeRex manual says that I need to add Options.ocamlc := S [ A "ocp-ocamlc"] to an ocamlbuild file. I did that, but it is wrong and ocamlbuild doesn't describe the := feature anywhere.
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<Kakadu> fasta: AFAIR trustworthy approach is to fix ocamlfind.conf
<fasta> I don't quite understand why they release documentation that is wrong.
<fasta> They are creating a tool. How do they not understand that the sole reason for their tool to exist is to make things easier?
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<Kakadu> c'est la vie
<Kakadu> fasta: `If you want to make a thing well do it by yourself` (c)
<fasta> Kakadu: that has been my experience, yes.
<Kakadu> To be honest I dont understand why approach with correcting myocamlbuild.ml is good. This file will be overwritten after every call `oasis setup`, isn't it?
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<fasta> Also, all of their manual instructions.
<fasta> Why can't they create a simple hello world project generator?
<Kakadu> I dont think it is needed
<Kakadu> ocp-things are environment element, not a code one
<fasta> It's perhaps 10 minutes of work for whoever wrote it.
<Kakadu> wrote what?
<fasta> They don't document their code and they don't provide a generator.
<fasta> Very useful... not.
<fasta> Also, they release a tool, but then leave it full of bugs.
<Kakadu> I've started not to undestand you
<fasta> Kakadu: wrote typerex.
<Kakadu> fasta: I don't blame them. They do something instead of me
<fasta> Kakadu: I'd have preferred if they had released nothing at all instead of buggy code.
<fasta> Kakadu: I am fine with people publishing things that work and are documented.
<fasta> The rest is just spam.
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<thomasga> fasta: what is wrong ?
<fasta> thomasga: The manual uses the line: Options.ocamlc := S [ A "ocp-ocamlc"]
<fasta> thomasga: but ocamlbuild doesn't like it.
<fasta> thomasga: a solution would be a complete example which installs typerex in a clean emacs environment including all features with a hello world example.
<fasta> thomasga: writing such a demo takes 1/100th of the time to write a tool like typerex.
<fasta> thomasga: I don't get the point of releasing something which takes eons to configure propertly.
<Kakadu> Cleaning emacs environment is bad idea
<fasta> Kakadu: I didn't say that.
<Kakadu> aaah
<Kakadu> sorry
<fasta> Kakadu: perhaps you are French?
<Kakadu> fasta: no. I know only few word in French
<Kakadu> s/word/words/
<f[x]> man, aren't you got better things to do?
<f[x]> go write some scala
<fasta> thomasga: all of those 'installation instructions' are completely useless too, because you could easily automate those with even sh scripts.
<fasta> Add line foo to file bar and that repeated 10 times is NOT an advertisement for a tool.
<fasta> It's a good advertisement to show you like to create problems for others.
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<Kakadu> fasta: Thomas os a good guy, Why did you demotivate him?
<fasta> Kakadu: if that demotivates him, he should grow some balls.
<fasta> The correct response would be to fix all of these problems to show how awesome he is.
<fasta> There would however still be the history of sending something which doesn't work in the first place to the rest of the world.
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<fasta> I call ocamlbuild.native -ocamlc ocp-ocamlc.opt -libs batteries,nums,unix foo-bar-baz.native, but it complains that BatFile is unbound. Now, why would it do that?
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<fasta> ocamlfind list | grep batt shows batteries and a couple of others.
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<Kakadu> I never called ocamlbuild manually
<fasta> Also 'unbound module' is such a ridiculous error message.
<Kakadu> I recommend you to export ocalmfind.conf somehow
<fasta> It should say 'I tried to look in the following directories for a file named foo.bar', but didn't find it there.
<Kakadu> fasta: Yeah it is a Monday now but it doesn't mean that all the world goes to apocalypto
<fasta> 'You should do xyz if you want to add it'.
<fasta> It doesn't even say which configuration files it is currently using or any other debugging output.
<Kakadu> fasta: AFAIR versoing output can show you directories
<Kakadu> verbosing*
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<testcocoon> Here a small video which shows how to debug ocaml byte code with oqamldebug: http://youtu.be/y70u5fHym_s
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<thelema> fasta: pastebin your _build/log file
<fasta> thelema: I already figured out why it happens. The reason is that typerex and ocp-* don't work with 4.01.
<fasta> thelema: the instructions for typerex are also wrong, since they specify ocaml >=3.12, which seems to be wrong.
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<fasta> thelema: ocp-ocamlc doesn't compile with opam ocamlc-4.01.
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<fasta> thelema: in my world it is a fact that typerex and all the infrastructure together do not work with ocamlc-4.01 the way it should work in theory.
<fasta> thelema: if that's wrong, I would love to see counter proof by anyone.
<fasta> I don't quite understand it, though. I thought Jane Street was paying to get these tools in working condition.
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<thelema> fasta: they are, but it's a small company that's working on this
<fasta> thelema: what's delivery date? ;)
<thelema> none that's been publicly announced
<fasta> thelema: I have the impression that development stopped on it.
<fasta> thelema: there are 28 open bugs, some open for months.
<fasta> It seems more like it was an experiment that has been abandoned.
<thelema> they lost their main typerex developer, iirc, so there has been some interruption
<thelema> consider the current typerex as dead.
<thomasga> (the next version is in the typerex2 branch, which is already quite stable)
<thelema> thomasga: release? code?
<thelema> thomasga: do you use it?
<thomasga> (and yes, we do not plan to support the current version any longer, the output of this project is the -binannot compiler extension)
<thomasga> yes, I'm using it every day, but no release date yet
<thelema> public repo?
<thomasga> same
<thelema> oh, I should give that a try, then
<thomasga> no documentation yet, so it's not very user friendly
<thomasga> but no more compiler patch
<thelema> ah, now I see the typerex2 branch.
<thomasga> the build instruction are not very right also ...
<thomasga> don't need to clone the SVN compiler anymore ...
<thelema> thomasga: consider this a request to give the install instructions some love
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<thomasga> thelema: done
<thomasga> (it might be broken on OSX though)
<thelema> thomasga: thanks
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<thelema> PR#5771: Add primitives for reading 2, 4, 8 bytes in strings and biga…
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<thelema> …rrays
<thelema> That's an interesting commit.
<thelema> Someone should catalog all the primitives; ocaml has been getting some interesting ones lately
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<thelema> yay, a spellchecking patch landed in trunk. Too bad it wasn't mine forever ago.
<companion_cube> http://vrac.cedeela.fr/truc.ml it's fun to play with Obj
<thelema> reversing the list in place? What happens if the GC runs in the middle?
<thelema> I guess it might work because of local variables
<companion_cube> the GC will not run in the middle since there is no allocation during reversal, I think
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<thelema> I'd be interested in a time comparison between this reverse and normal reverse.
<thelema> the GC could be triggered by a different thread
<companion_cube> oh
<companion_cube> threads -_-
<thelema> batteries has a different way of doing tail recursive map without reversal using a similar trick to build the list by a mutating append
<companion_cube> but yeah, I guess everything is still reachable from local variables
<companion_cube> oh
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<companion_cube> like, you keep the previous node while mapping?
<companion_cube> I should try
<thelema> and there's a third way that involves setting bookmarks through the master list every 1K positions, and then doing the map in sections
<thelema> the recursion for that way is pretty wild
<thelema> but it's pure OCaml, no Obj. And it's pretty fast
<thelema> I think core uses it
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<thelema> no, apparently it doesn't
<thelema> https://ocaml.janestreet.com/?q=node/71#comment-201
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<adrien> if there's no allocation, no other thread will get a chance to run
<adrien> currently
<companion_cube> neat
<thelema> adrien: oh yes, true.
<adrien> *currently* :-)
<companion_cube> http://vrac.cedeela.fr/truc.ml new version
<companion_cube> this one does not reverse!
<thelema> yup, that's it
<companion_cube> it's neat
<companion_cube> we should use it in the standard lib :>
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<thelema> companion_cube: read this first: https://ocaml.janestreet.com/?q=node/71
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<companion_cube> 0.187794s for unsafe, 0.469951 for safe
<companion_cube> the first one is the unsafe_map, the second one is List.rev (List.rev_map . .)
<companion_cube> on a 1M elements list, with a trivial operation
<companion_cube> my computer is not too powerful...
<thelema> you have to benchmark a few different size lists; the safe version should be faster for small lists.
<adrien> companion_cube: CPU governors?
<thelema> let l = generate [] (int_of_string Sys.argv.(1)) in
<companion_cube> 10 elements: 0.000005s for unsafe, 0.000002 for safe
<companion_cube> 100 elements: 0.000007s for unsafe, 0.000008 for safe
<companion_cube> 10000 elements: 0.000661s for unsafe, 0.000842 for safe
<companion_cube> 1000000 elements: 0.190795s for unsafe, 0.490864 for safe
<companion_cube> 10000000 elements: 2.071027s for unsafe, 5.139709 for safe
<companion_cube> sorry for the spam
<companion_cube> but then there's the precision of Unix.gettimeofday
<thelema> so around 100 elements. That's not too bad.
<companion_cube> I assume Obj.repr has no overhead?
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