adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml-lang.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<_habnabit> crossposting, but it's a problem i'm solving in ocaml, so it might be more relevant here
<_habnabit> i have a set of inputs that i'm dividing up over N processes, and processing each input requires drawing numbers from a PRNG, and each process works from the same initial seed. it's not currently reproducible because the inputs are kept in a queue, and an item is read out of the queue as soon as a process needs new work to do, so it's indeterminate which processes will get which inputs in which order
<_habnabit> it seems like i should just reseed the PRNG before every input based on the input and the input seed. is there a better solution than that?
<inv> what are you trying to accomlish?
<_habnabit> i'm trying to make it reproducible given the same set of inputs and the same seed
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<_habnabit> dang, Hashtbl.seeded_hash is new in 4.00
<dsheets1> is there a nice c code generator around somewhere? quotation would be nice.
<hongboz`> dsheets1: there was one, on top of cabs, but it was no longer maintained
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<dsheets1> hongboz`: :-( what about cabs? no syntax extension but nice AST fns?
<hongboz`> a c quotation kit
<dsheets1> but its emitter is no longer maintained?
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<dsheets1> ah yes… now writing rust
<hongboz`> yes, the same guy
<hongboz`> if I have time, I would pick it up..
<dsheets1> bleh… fftw's isn't complete and is gpl and elkhound's is in C++ inexplicably
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<dsheets1> necula saves the day: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~necula/cil/
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<dsheets1> hongboz: going to use http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~necula/cil/
<hongboz> dsheets1: cil itself does not provide a qutation kit
<dsheets1> :-/ it appears to be the most used representation, though
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<yezariaely> yesterday's question of inheriting multiple interfaces by a module was greatly answered here. Yet, today I face another problem: I have a functor and one of the functor's arguments should be matching both module types A and B. Is there any way to get this or do I have to create an auxillary module type which is the union of both?
<yezariaely> other option would of course be a syntax extension which does exactly this...
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<fasta> How do I find the package name for a given library?
<fasta> In this case for Big_int.
<Kakadu> fasta: try `num`
<fasta> Kakadu: ok, but how could I have known this using just the shell?
<fasta> Kakadu: *nix shell
<Kakadu> brute force iteration over all packages
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<Kakadu> :)
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<fasta> Kakadu: how should the ocamlbuild command line be modified such that it also looks for num then?
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<Kakadu> no idea. Maybe it is better to fix _tags file?
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<fasta> Kakadu: what is wrong with? | After_rules -> tag_file "foo.ml" ["use_nums"];something_else
<fasta> The ocaml compiler is very unforgiving. It only says 'syntax error' at some characters.
<fasta> It doesn't say what exactly it was expecting or what I provided.
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<adrien_oww> fasta: "ocamlfind list" can help
<flux> fasta, this would work in /usr/lib/ocaml: for a in *.cma; do ocamlobjinfo $a | grep Big_int && echo ..in $a; done
<flux> but it's not a great recipe, I think it works by accident
<flux> but it gives great pointers to look for :)
<flux> a more advanced script could tell for sure
<fasta> flux: yes, that's enough.
<adrien_oww> unless you have module packs :P
<flux> but in that case you don't have module Big_int
<flux> you have Foo.Big_int
<fasta> Why isn't there some really simple example of ocamlbuild being used anywhere to only tag one file to use the nums library?
<flux> and then it's sufficient to find foo.cmo
<flux> fasta, maybe nobody found that they need that kind of information very often
<fasta> flux: it makes me think that nobody use the tool to begin with
<flux> but yeah, I think ocamlbuild could use even more documentation than it currently has
<fasta> An example is useful because is establishes a small proof that the tool in question works.
<flux> that's a nice way to put it
<fasta> If there are no examples, it seems to indicate that the authors have no confidence in their own tools.
<flux> well, that I'm not sure about
<flux> surely it works for the author
<fasta> What happened to EasyOCaml?
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<fasta> That is or was a janestreet prososal.
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<fasta> Failure: lexing: empty token.
<fasta> That's an error message I get. It cannot be much more terrible, can it?
<fasta> It could crash in a random place and delete all my files, I suppose.
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<fasta> I now see this: {. extension:ml, file:n.ml, ocaml, quiet, traverse, use_nums .}
<fasta> However, the problem is still not solved.
<fasta> Error: No implementations provided for the following modules: Big_int referenced from n.cmx
<adrien_oww> full command-line?
<fasta> ocamlbuild -libs unix "$(find . -maxdepth 1 ! -name myocamlbuild.ml -name '*.ml'| sed -r 's|\.ml||;s|\./||')".native
<fasta> "n.ml": use_nums is in the _tags file
<fasta> I don't understand why the double quotes are needed either, since that's not documented.
<fasta> However, without them I get a lexer error.
<fasta> I think the documentation or the code is wrong.
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<fasta> It appears how the _tags work is undocumented. It says how you can introduce tags, but not what you can then do with them.
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<fasta> How do I get rid of messages like No source file for Nat. ?
<fasta> Really, why are there so many excuses for things not working in OCaml? I am not asking it do things that are not computable or something like that.
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<fasta> E.g. when I do bt I don't get a back trace.
<fasta> I just get the empty string.
<Kakadu> fasta: Printexc.record_backtrace true;;
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<Kakadu> something like this
<fasta> Raised by primitive operation at file
<fasta> This is still completely useless.
<fasta> A stack trace shows a complete path, preferably with all arguments pretty printed.
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<f[x]> fasta, you are asking in wrong place
<fasta> f[x]: should I ask on the mailing lists?
<f[x]> report bugs with repro cases or patches to mantis
<fasta> f[x]: I don't even know whether it is a bug.
<fasta> f[x]: I think it is broken, but someone people might have different ideas.
<f[x]> if you don't know - it is still a bug - at least in docs
<fasta> er some people
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<thelema> fasta: the "what you can do with tags" is totally programmable; there's no limit to what you can do with them. IIRC, ocamlbuild -documentation gives you a huge list of builtin rules that match tags, although not what's done for many of the rules.
<thelema> as for pretty-printing arbitrary ocaml values, there's currently no way to do this.
<thelema> can you be more specific about your problem with backtrace? It looks like you're running gdb
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<thelema> and something is dying in Nat
<fasta> thelema: that was ocamldebug
<thelema> ok.
<fasta> thelema: I had expected a stacktrace like in e.g. Python or C.
<fasta> thelema: that is, something which goes through all levels.
<thelema> gdb does a good job of making stack traces with ocaml 4.00
<thelema> I don't use ocamldebug myself, but would guess that 'bt' should give a full backtrace
<thelema> although the backtrace information needs to be collected in ocaml at runtime; I assume you're running with OCAMLRUNPARAM=b, no?
<fasta> I was not.
<fasta> I compiled with -g, though.
<thelema> -g isn't sufficient. I think it should be. I'll file a bug on this.
<thelema> hmm, maybe I'm wrong about -g; this seems to only affect the printing of backtrace on failues
<thelema> *failure
<thelema> err, not -g, OCAMLRUNPARAM=b
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<fasta> WIth the PrintExc.* option, I got a similar effect.
<fasta> Still, the message with Num is also rather annoying.
<thelema> I don't know what "similar effect" means; no backtrace, just message about Num?
<fasta> I mean, if the help says 'do stepback to do foo', then when I do stepback, it shouldn't give some error.
<fasta> In my case an error about some file not being available.
<fasta> I have an Internet connection. How do they mean it's not 'available'.
<thelema> I think it's a warning, and the stepback is successful.
<f[x]> dear channel, you are observing the process of extracting bugreport from a frustrated user, please don't make such bugreports yourselves
<fasta> Of course it is 'available', it's just that they didn't program it to work.
<thelema> and I don't think OCaml has any expectation to download unknown module debug info from the internet
<fasta> thelema: it's from the base system.
<fasta> I find it an entirely reasonable feature.
<thelema> it is, but the compiler can't be sure; there's nothing to prevent you from replacing Num
<thelema> or linking in a totally different module named num
<thelema> I guess the compiler could have a list of module interface hashes that it knows are part of itself...
<thelema> lots of complexity.
<fasta> I would like the computer to do the work as much as possible.
<fasta> That's why I have one.
<thelema> anyway, I'd bet that with the right -I flags, the warning would go away.
<thelema> you probably just have to tell ocamldebug where the source for Num is
<thelema> (possibly the .cma file is enough)
<thelema> probably not, thinking about it
<fasta> I think that's the equivalent of asking you where my mouth is.
<thelema> Num comes with the compiler, but is actually an "otherlib", meaning it's not tightly integrated as your mouth
<fasta> The compiler already has all the information. It's just asking redundant questions.
<fasta> It knows enough in that it knows what it is running.
<thelema> I agree it would be much nicer for it to not need to be pointed to its own files.
<fasta> As such, it could also know the source file.
<thelema> the source file isn't installed by default.
<thelema> and it doesn't know where in the filesystem you've shoved it.
<fasta> Can I tell opam to install the source files then?
<thelema> maybe if you copy num.ml to `ocamlc -where`, it'll just work
<thelema> afaik, no. The compiler's makefile doesn't do that.
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* f[x] applauses to thelema's patience
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<thelema> f[x]: I've been TAing a software design course all semester; this is nothing compared to what I've had to put up with there.
<f[x]> ouch
<f[x]> that's painful
<fasta> I also was a TA for a similar course. The only problem was that the grading rules were setup that people that deserved a 1 still got a 4 or something like that.
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<thelema> ok, I was wrong again, you do need to run with OCAMLRUNPARAM=b to get a backtrace
<thelema> and yes, -g should suffice.
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<wmeyer> hi
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<adrien> lo
<wmeyer> it's raining here like crazy :( have no other excuse than to sit down and do some web-programming!
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<adrien> I'm after a small http client library
<thelema> ocurl?
<adrien> requirements are (in that order): 1- GPL-compatible, 2- minimal deps (avoid C ones for now), 3- small
<adrien> I need to have "GET" working basically
<adrien> I've been using wget from yypkg for downloads and it has been the cause of some issue
<adrien> s
<thelema> really? what?
<thelema> I'm still using wget (as a fallback) for odb
<adrien> on windows it has a bug which I've reported and provided a patch for but which is almost certainly not merged (I'll have to bump it on the mailing-list and it'll take a couple more weeks and I'll have to wait for the next release, ...)
<adrien> it's also less practical
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<adrien> and I don't have an easy way to provide a download progress in a GUI
<thelema> ah, windows.
<adrien> :-)
* wmeyer wonders what's the reason for such Adrien's sacrifice
<adrien> stupidity
<wmeyer> adrien: is it a mingw or cygwin version of wget?
<wmeyer> adrien: I can't believe it! I admire though, really, there are some Windows users that just waiting for OCaml to be compatible too.
<wmeyer> people tried very hard to make Unix module work on Windows.
<xavierm02> I never understood people needing cygwin etc.
<xavierm02> can't you just emulate a real unix?
<wmeyer> xavierm02: I've never tried to use Windows without cygwin since many years
<adrien> I want my tools to work everywhere so I can use them freely; I think it's worthwhile to have more and better working free software everywhere; I started years ago and I'm stubborn
<wmeyer> Interix is the answer!
<xavierm02> since you just need the console, you don't need that much perfs
<adrien> xavierm02: cygwin provides posix support; if you need posix support on windows, you have no other choice
<adrien> wmeyer: discontinued as of windows 8
<adrien> not really discontinued but MS tells people to use something else
<wmeyer> I said, I don't neglect, even on emacs-devel there are some Windows fanatics
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<wmeyer> adrien: so to use yypkg and OCaml one needs to have the cygwin installed, or?
<adrien> no, if you want cygwin stuff, use cygwin's setup.exe
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<adrien> no overlap between yypkg and cygwin
<adrien> and only native stuff in yypkg
<adrien> which is why I need that ocaml cross-compiler
<wmeyer> did you try to package visual studio express with yypkg?
<adrien> hahahahahahahahaha
<wmeyer> and then compile using that, also the packages, it looks like a really difficult path but maybe that;s how the things work on Windows
<adrien> sorry :-)
<adrien> impossible to redistribute that
<adrien> plus it's crap :-)
<wmeyer> no need to redistribute :-)
<adrien> I'm not touching non free software
<wmeyer> ah, yes, MS has it's own ways
<adrien> makes things so much simpler
<adrien> MSVC's EULA is fun if you're bored btw
<wmeyer> yes, sorry, i am not bored anymore today!
<adrien> also I'm currently build *everything* myself and from linux, with a bare slackware
<adrien> full bootstrap
<wmeyer> i was thinking that some people might be extremely happy with such an installer
<wmeyer> maybe just yypkg should be bundled with Linux VM
<wmeyer> maybe we lack a distrubution of OCaml fully boostrapped on VM
<adrien> it has a native compiler if you want to use it on windows
<adrien> GCC that is
<adrien> ocaml, it's going to be fun
<adrien> great, the cross compiler patch that is available is fro 3.11
<adrien> good night :P
<wmeyer> ah
<wmeyer> is it mingw build?
<wmeyer> mingw32-gcc or something like this?
<adrien> i686-w64-mingw32 currently
<adrien> which means:
<wmeyer> the magic triple :-)
<adrien> 32bit build with the mingw-w64 vendor (abbreviated w64) (vendor defines API and feature set)
<wmeyer> which packages have you built that way?
<wmeyer> so yypkg is binary package manager?
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<adrien> yes, you wouldn't want to compile on windows
<adrien> everything is there: http://notk.org/~adrien/yypkg/latest/
<wmeyer> ok, how do you maintain patches?
<adrien> currently they're usually sed invocations
<adrien> almost all the changes I need are short or repetitive
<adrien> and I plant to start actively upstreaming around february or march
<wmeyer> remember to up-stream the biggie - OCaml 4.00.1 patch :-)
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<adrien> wmeyer: I'm alone doing this: not upstreaming is going to be very hard
<adrien> I cannot not upstream a patch as big as this one
<thelema> just say "windows support"; that'll help.
<wmeyer> only problem I see is that for the maintainers it take some time to test it
<wmeyer> booting windows is no fun
<pippijn> adrien: why, for example, is MSVC's EULA fun?
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<adrien> wmeyer: never shut it down then ;p
<adrien> thelema: I intend to not give up :P
<thelema> just suspend the VM instead of shutting it down.
<thelema> :)
<adrien> I have a computer in the living room; no need to shut down the VM ;-)
<adrien> pippijn: it says you cannot do anything
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<wmeyer> adrien: I try to stay away from windows. I feel pain distributed all over my body when using it.
<wmeyer> adrien: but that's probably because my OS is already weird - tiling WM, lot's of custom code in Common Lisp and mousless browser. So I can say about Gnome that it's painful too.
<adrien> heheh :-)
<wmeyer> and windows can't give me that pleasure of neverending configuration
<adrien> oh, it can
<adrien> mostly because you're going to have to spend tons of time looking for it
<adrien> good night
<wmeyer> :)
<wmeyer> night!
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