<troydm>
also it's not a web server just some echo test server
<ousado>
chris double again :)
<troydm>
but it pretty much explains the model
<ousado>
yes, it's well known
<ousado>
I'm not a fan of it
<ousado>
I like having per session server-side state
<troydm>
yeah but it's speed proven
<ousado>
it makes things very simple
<troydm>
whole github runs on unicorn
<ousado>
interesting
<ousado>
didn't know that
<ousado>
not that github is extremely fast, though :)
<troydm>
well it serves millions of requests per sec
<ousado>
in terms of latency, I mean
<ousado>
yes, sure, it's an impressive load, no doubt
<ousado>
and what I mean is that I'm not a fan of letting the DB handle the contention
<ousado>
I'm very much a fan of single-threaded async networking
<wmeyer>
I think the problem with Ocsigen is that none of the big hosting companies started using that - surely I can imagine Ocsigen being superior in performance to any of the existing servers.
<ousado>
yesterday there was someone here who had performance problems with ocsigen
<wmeyer>
expect it - because Ocsigen hasn't been heavily tested under high load
<wmeyer>
it just means there is a grey area, that yet needs to be explored
<ousado>
yes, and it should be quite easy to optimize
<wmeyer>
ousado: exactly
<wmeyer>
yes
<wmeyer>
my home webpage have been running on Ocigen for years - and btw. never had downtime issues as I had with Apache :)
<ousado>
maybe offering the first ocsigen hosting service is a good idea
<wmeyer>
because apache decided to spawn several processes that took the whole memory of my virtual core
<ousado>
yeah
<ousado>
apache 1.X?
<wmeyer>
don't remember, i just wanted to host a wordpress blog
<wmeyer>
eventually i ended up with running it on apache on 8080
<ousado>
one process per request is the most ridiculous of the all those crazy models :)
<wmeyer>
and it was taking just few days to realise that my virtual core is swapping way too much
<ousado>
were those legit visitors?
<wmeyer>
ousado: :) i think what happens is that people think about the optimisations and performance they get through the shortest path - not thinking about architecture or what can be done in terms optimising high level
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<ousado>
yes, and in case of that traditional forking model it's also just historic
<wmeyer>
ousado: not at all, so i just removed it from my webpage
<wmeyer>
maybe, don't know much about it
<wmeyer>
with single thread we can exploit sharing
<wmeyer>
with forking is more difficult and closer to the medium
<ousado>
yes, and have a single stack
<ousado>
instead of throwing 8MB at each request
<wmeyer>
yep
<wmeyer>
soon I gtgtb
<ousado>
it also influenced the way people wrote web-apps and whole frameworks
<ousado>
aight
<ousado>
see you later
<wmeyer>
yes, i can see it too, so i would love to see webhosting company that serves on Ocsigen :-)
<wmeyer>
yes, see you later
<ousado>
I might give it a shot
<ousado>
yep laters
<wmeyer>
yes, definitely, it's easy to configure
<ousado>
I mean the hosting thing :)
<wmeyer>
ah :-)
<wmeyer>
keep me informed, yay
<wmeyer>
:)
<ousado>
ok, bye :)
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<mrout>
Any good articles explaining structural subtyping?
<mrout>
I've heard it's like a static typing equivalent of duck typing
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<jpdeplaix>
wmeyer: Oh great, first time someone talk about ocsimore in this channel :)
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<mrout>
structural type checking - are things checked at runtime or compile time?
<mehdid>
only a few things are checked on runtime (like array boundaries, modules signatures on dynlink, ...). typing is done at compile time.
<mehdid>
mrout: ^
<mrout>
Thanks
<mrout>
Odd syntax, OCaml.
<pippijn>
mehdid: in what language?
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<orbitz>
ousado: re opass: thanks
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<orbitz>
mrout: perfectly natuarl syntax if grew up in mL
<mrout>
orbitz: lol are you everwhere?
<mrout>
you must be jesus
<orbitz>
everywhere and nowhere!
<orbitz>
more like buddha, i'm one with everything
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<wmeyer>
jpdeplaix: yep, surely we want to talk more about Ocsimore :-)
<wmeyer>
orbitz: is opass a standalone tool like pwsafe?
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<orbitz>
wmeyer: it depends on gpg
<orbitz>
wmeyer: BUT the encryption tool it uses justs needs to support piping input and output data so you could replace gpg with something else (although that is a code change right now, but not a bigone)
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<wmeyer>
orbitz: i may ask difficult question do you do some custom blocks + finalization that clears them
<wmeyer>
?
<wmeyer>
pwsafe is obsesively safe, including some special linux protected memory support
<wmeyer>
I gtg
* wmeyer
off to work
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<adrien_oww>
morning
<adrien_oww>
wmeyer: I saw your answer, thanks; in turn I've spent the whole week-end working on the x-compiler and haven't had time to answer :P
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<orbitz>
wmeyer: no, I don't do anything too clever
<orbitz>
wmeyer: opass i smeant to run in a safe environment, it's goal is just to keep the db safe so you can store it on a public place
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<eikke>
anyone knows a thing or 2 about opam in here?
<orbitz>
eikke: i know half a think about opam
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<eikke>
any idea how to fix ocamlbuild (one from opam) insists on using /usr/bin/ocamlfind instead of the one from my opam env?
<orbitz>
did you do the environment setup step?
<orbitz>
and it's setup in your current shell?
<eikke>
yes and yes
<eikke>
I remember someone described this problem @ ICFP as well
<eikke>
but I'd expect that to be gone by now :-/ really don't want to simply remove my system-wide packages
<cago>
did you type the command : $eval `opam config env`
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<eikke>
cago: yes
<jbrown>
eikke: are you using the system ocaml? I think you get the system ocamlfind if so.
<eikke>
jbrown: no
<eikke>
here's what I did
<jbrown>
is ~/.opam/4.00.1/bin in your path?
<jbrown>
s/4.00.1/$ocamlversion/
<cago>
maybe you can show us the interesting part of your PATH variable ?
<eikke>
rm -rf ~/.opam; re-install opam from git 0.9.0 tag, opam init --comp=4.00.1, eval `opam conf env`, opam install conf-libev (and lwt, ounit and some other packages)
<eikke>
CAML_LD_LIBRARY_PATH, OCAML_TOPLEVEL_PATH, PATH point to the opam env (thanks to the eval)
<eikke>
which ocamlbuild ocamlfind shows both binaries in the opam env bin folder
<eikke>
but then in the same shell for some project, "ocamlbuild -use-ocamlfind blah.native" shows /usr/bin/ocamlfind to be used (and not finding some package which is indeed only installed in the opam env)
<eikke>
strace shows it doesnt even look for any ocamlfind in PATH, simply spawns "/bin/sh -c /usr/bin/ocamlfind -where ..." (not sure what comes after, didnt pass -s)
* jbrown
has no idea, I guess it might be a bug :-).
<jbrown>
I've not used ocamlbuild.
<cago>
which version of opam are you using ?
<chambart>
eikke: do you have a myocamlbuild.ml ?
<eikke>
chambart: yes
<eikke>
cago: 0.9.0
<chambart>
isn't your myocamlbuild calling ocamlfind itself ?
<chambart>
if you remove -use-ocamlfind does it change something ?
<eikke>
chambart: it only lists 'ocamlbuild', never '/usr/bin/ocamlfind' or anything alike
<eikke>
chambart: without -use-ocamlfind it warns about 'tag "package"', and fails after a while because some module (which is contained in a dependency package) isnt bound
<chambart>
eikke, is the myocamlbuild made by oasis ?
<eikke>
chambart: no
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<chambart>
eikke, if in a directory without myocamlbuild.ml you make an empty .ml file and call something like 'ocamlbuild -tag "package(react)" -use-ocamlfind toto.byte'
<chambart>
what ocamlfind is it calling ?
<chambart>
what does 'which ocamlbuild' gives you ?
<eikke>
~/.opam/4.00.1/bin/ocamlbuild
<eikke>
let me check your previous question
<eikke>
hmh, that seems to work
<chambart>
eikke, maybe some path is hardcoded in the myocamlbuild...
<eikke>
trying some other approach now which according to my co-worker should work
<eikke>
but I'm not convinced yet
<eikke>
he doesn't have any system-wide ocaml install, so I think the script he uses will simply yield the same result as what I had before
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<olaf_>
I'm new to ocaml. I have a opt and a non-opt build for linux-x86_64. If I run ocamlfind ocamlopt -package xyz with the opt build, findlib does an "exec ocamlopt" without the -package option, it does not look inside the ocamlopt binary. if I do the same with the non-opt build (ocamlfind ocamlc -package xyz) the ocamlfind binary peeks inside itself and ocamlc and appearently looks at the capabilities of ocamlc. It recognizes that ocamlc
<olaf_>
does not have a "-pacakge" option, and just exits.
<olaf_>
My question is, why would there be a difference between a opt and a non-opt build?
<olaf_>
and: is there a fix or workaround?
<adrien_oww>
it's done the other way round
<adrien_oww>
options ocamlfind doesn't know about are passed to the ocamlc/ocamlopt/... binaries
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<adrien_oww>
can you show us the full error?
<adrien_oww>
and invocation
<olaf_>
adrien_oww: it seems the error happens before ocamlfinds "main" is even executed, at least my naive debug printf thing is not even executed.
<thelema>
olaf_: odd; I thought that when ocamlfind was being installed it did its scan of ocamlc's parameters
<thelema>
under no circumstances should ocamlfind pass -package to ocamlc/opt
<thelema>
it should convert that into a set of -I , and for linking a .cma/cmxa/whatever
<olaf_>
ocamlfind ocamlc -g -warn-error CDEFLMPSUVYZX -package unix -c guestfs.mli -o ./guestfs.cmi ; ocamlc: unknown option `-package' (from stdlib.parse_args). and according to strace it just peeks into itself and ocamlc binary.
<thelema>
very odd; how did you install ocamlfind?
<olaf_>
make install? both are rpm packaged
<Kakadu>
olaf_: ocamlfind has -v option for verbose printing
<adrien_oww>
works for me; I don't understand your issue
<olaf_>
Kakadu: this has no effect because ocamlfind code is appearently not executed.
<olaf_>
adrien_oww: a clean non-opt build of both packages?
<thelema>
when you run ocamlfind with -v, it should print the ocamlc invocation it makes, can you paste that?
<flux>
olaf_, so if you strace -e execve -f, does it also call ocamlc with -package .. ?
<flux>
I think it's not -v..
<olaf_>
thelema: makes no difference in the output, because it does no exec*, it just peeks into itself and the ocamlc binary.
<flux>
rather -verbose
<adrien_oww>
olaf_: there's something very weird with your ocamlfind; it shouldn't do that
<olaf_>
I think the options a binary has are stored inside the binary.
<adrien_oww>
and that's impossible to parse
<adrien_oww>
the spec is clear: it passes unrecognized options to the other binary
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<olaf_>
hmm, is that expected? " ocamlfind
<olaf_>
No bytecode file specified.
<olaf_>
"
<olaf_>
the opt build prints the Usage instead.
<adrien_oww>
no :P
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<adrien_oww>
which command exactly?
<adrien_oww>
it looks like the path to your ocamlrun is bad
<flux>
olaf_, btw, is it possible your ocamlfind.conf has something strange?
<adrien_oww>
but ocamlfind is a native binary
<olaf_>
/usr/bin/ocamlfind: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.4, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
<olaf_>
adrien_oww: not sure what you mean, I just ran 'ocamlfind' and got the message above. so it looks like the ocamlfind binary is supposed to be a bytecode file and its interpreter is supposed to be ocamlrun?
<adrien_oww>
ah
<adrien_oww>
nope, nothing
<adrien_oww>
ocamlfind -h
<adrien_oww>
what does it give?
<olaf_>
hmm, if I run it from the build directory it prints its Usage. Looks like a packaging issue now. Very Weird..
<adrien_oww>
and from the system?
<adrien_oww>
I mean, with -h
<olaf_>
bax:~> /usr/bin/ocamlfind
<olaf_>
No bytecode file specified.
<olaf_>
bax:~> /usr/bin/ocamlfind -h
<olaf_>
Unknown option -h.
<adrien_oww>
yeah, ok
<adrien_oww>
it looks like it's a custom-linked binary that has been stripped out of its bytecode
<adrien_oww>
well-known issue
<adrien_oww>
I have to afk
<adrien_oww>
# ocamlrun -help
<adrien_oww>
Unknown option -help.
<olaf_>
better dont strip the ocamlfind binary. after "strip" its broken [tm]
<flux>
better compile it natively?
<olaf_>
better have native support for $arch
<flux>
indeed. let the porting begin!
<olaf_>
but thanks for your patience
<olaf_>
how can the rpm post build stuff detect that a given ELF binary is actually an ocaml binary and omit the strip process? readelf -Wa does not seem to tell a difference.
<olaf_>
among the .debug_* sections the .symtab and the .strtab is removed during strip
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<adrien>
olaf_, flux : my ocamlfind is native-compiled
<adrien>
olaf_: basically you always get native support for $arch
<adrien>
most of the time, when you get a binary that's bytecode-compiled, it's because the native one hasn't been built; not because it's not available
<olaf_>
if the provided ocaml package was built with make world.opt, yes
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<wmeyer>
adrien: will look at the cross compilation issues this week
<wmeyer>
anybody is going for the Paris meetup?
<adrien>
I'll be going, just haven't registered yet
<adrien>
wmeyer: I'm going to upload a dump of my patches but mostly for backing them up and making them available just in case; they definitely need some cleanup
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<orbitz>
wish I was goign to paris meetup
<adrien>
where do you live?
<orbitz>
Sweden. Just don't have time/money
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<adrien>
heh, that'd be expensive for a few hours, yeah :P
<adrien>
unless you already go to fosdem
<orbitz>
yeah
<orbitz>
i'd love to go and visit paris just don't have the funds
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<madroach>
Hi, I'm wondering there a nicer way to do this: [long pipe] |> fst |> (fun a -> a ())
<thelema>
[long_pipe] |> (fun (a,_) -> a ())
<madroach>
even nicer?
<madroach>
something like |> fst @@ () ?
<orbitz>
let apply_unit a = a () in [long_pip] |> fst |> apply_unit
<pippijn>
long pip
<orbitz>
or maybe ([long_pipe] |> fst) ()
<thelema>
I'd recommend not using symbols to make something unusual shorter.
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<madroach>
thelema: Yes, but the piping operators in batteries are just so tempting...
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<thelema>
if this is something that happens once, don't bother with shorter syntax; just keep it readable.
<orbitz>
woo this dijon mustard tingles the senses
<thelema>
if it happens a lot, the 'apply_unit" function seems best
<orbitz>
maybe apply_unary?
<pippijn>
or apply1
<flux>
[long pipe] |> fst |> (|>) ()
<flux>
not sure if it's better :)
<orbitz>
hah
<orbitz>
Does this make it a monoid?
* thelema
twiches
<orbitz>
definidefinilty not a comutative monoid
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<dsheets1>
is it possible to declare a virtual class with virtual methods whose concrete inheritors adhere to a given class type?
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<benmachine>
I am finding ocamlbuild -use-ocamlfind hello_world.byte reports "ocamlfind: Package `core' not found" but "ocamlfind query core" reports "it's right here"
<benmachine>
the command that ocamlbuild prints before it dies is "/usr/bin/ocamlfind ocamldep -package core,sexplib.syntax,bin_prot.syntax,comparelib.syntax,fieldslib.syntax,variantslib.syntax -syntax camlp4o -modules hello_world.ml", which indeed reports no core
<dsheets1>
$ which ocamlfind?
<dsheets1>
benmachine: does running "which ocamlfind" report the path as /usr/bin/ocamlfind?