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<thelema>
ben_zen: recompile ocaml yourself?
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<ben_zen>
thelema: I think I found it, actually. I was foolish and thought I could load the Thread module into the toplevel; I'm going to try bytecode-compiling with -thread instead.
<thelema>
ah. You should be able to use ocamlfind to use Thread in the toplevel
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<adrien>
#use "topfind";;
<adrien>
and then it says:
<adrien>
#thread;; to enable threads
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<thelema>
but compiling is generally better
<ben_zen>
yeah, since this isn't intended to be used from the toplevel anyways.
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<noobdude>
guys, quick question.
<noobdude>
do all record type instances go to a global namespace if so why?
<thelema_>
no, they're local to the module they're defined in
<noobdude>
ok , they are not like typeclasses in haskell
<thelema_>
nope
<noobdude>
where you can have only one of them , visible everywhere
<noobdude>
but some folks use the example of record types in ocaml to bash ocaml ,saying that it is ant-modular
<noobdude>
i am not much acquainted with ocaml
<noobdude>
but know a bit of haskell
<tac>
are you talking about Haskellers? Or someone else?
<thelema_>
within one module, two records can't use the same field name
<noobdude>
yeah , martin odersky to be specific
<noobdude>
i was listening to his scala 2.10 presentation
<noobdude>
where he glorified , FP a lot and then bashed haskell and ocaml
<noobdude>
and glorified SML being only language taking modularity seriously
<noobdude>
i think , he is spreading FUD
<noobdude>
like in haskell Monads are polymorphic
<thelema_>
odd; maybe he's referring to some new work that's going on to try to make it easier to refer to record fields from other namespaces
<thelema_>
but that isn't decreasing modularity, it's making it easier to program within a strongly modular system
<noobdude>
but he bashes , monads as inferior solution for effect typing
<adrien>
thelema_: I doubt he follows ocaml *that* closely
<noobdude>
saying it is monomorphic
<thelema_>
adrien: fair enough.
<noobdude>
, it's making it easier to program within a strongly modular system --links,papers for a Non-MLer?
<noobdude>
yeah ,Module system , with signatures,structures
<noobdude>
and generative functors
<noobdude>
i think , that is available in Ocaml too isn't it?
<noobdude>
including functors, except they are applicative, I skimmed Leroy's paper
<ben_zen>
yes, all of that is present in OCaml (unless I'm much mistaken)
<thelema_>
noobdude: yes, generative functors are available in OCaml, although you have to ask for them with some tricks
<noobdude>
thelema : thanks for the link
<thelema_>
ocaml uses a syntactic trick to get applicative functors by default, but by tweaking around that, you can get generative functors
<noobdude>
thelema_:nice , as far as my understanding goes , generative functors are anlouge to impure functions right? I think it is a good thing that they are available ,only if one begs for them
<thelema_>
I think I was in the room when this talk was given
<noobdude>
cool. Think about that
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<oriba>
what is the difference between generative and applicative functors? I only know functors, not any differentiation between them.
<thelema_>
oriba: read the shorter link (or the youtube)
<oriba>
ok
<thelema_>
it has to do with multiple applications of the functor to the "same" arguments
<oriba>
downloading the video now...
<oriba>
hmhhh
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<oceanquake>
Hello all. If I have two modules, let's say ModA and ModB, and ModA.f depends on ModB.i, and ModB.j depends on ModA.g , is this considered a mutually recursive dependency, or should I be able to compile both these modules?
<oceanquake>
Where f, g, i, and j are functions...
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<Qrntz>
oceanquake, yes, it is one
<Qrntz>
if there's no way to eliminate the mutual recursion, you can work around this by defining both modules in a single file as explicitly mutually recursive (via «module rec … and …»)
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<oceanquake>
Qrntz: thanks. Is there a way to forward declare the signature, like a C extern or something? I presume this is a problem due to the type analysis?
<oceanquake>
I'd rather not smash the modules into one file...
<Qrntz>
no, there are no forward declarations
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<oceanquake>
hm, that's a frustrating limitation.
<Qrntz>
I have never missed them in OCaml, but YMMV
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<oceanquake>
Yes, I'm working on some code that's grown organically over the past 5 yrs. or so, and this is the first time I'm encountering it as well, but at the same time I can't say the current decomposition into modules is inelegant, so I'd rather not "refactor" the modules if I can avoid it.
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<oriba>
oceanquake, refactoring might be good, but maybe you can create a new module and open the old modules in the new module. If there are no name-clashes, then all functions should be available there in the new module...?!
<oriba>
then put the crossdependencies into the new module?!
<oriba>
hmhhh...
<oriba>
just roughly thinking htis#
<oriba>
this
<oriba>
not sure it works
<oriba>
(would need to see an example)
<oriba>
But there are ways to have common functions by defining them at the outside of inner modules, inside a wrappng module that holds other modules
<oriba>
(not sure if it is clear to you what I mean)
<oriba>
maybe just shifting the dependencies to a new, MixedModule