<orbitz>
you could also write it: fun f x -> f x /. x
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<skow>
orbitz, my question is - if given only the response, how do I intepret the expression?
<skow>
I don't understand the ( float -> float) bit
<flux>
skow, (float -> float) is type of a value that can have a 'float' applied to it and you get another 'float' (ie, it's a function)
<flux>
(applying means simply the act of calling a function, ie. in "sin 4.0" 4.0 is applied to sin)
<skow>
how different it is from something like this (float -> float) -> (float -> float)
<flux>
well, quite different
<flux>
that's a function that takes a function and returns a function
<flux>
or, another way to look at it is that (float -> float) -> (float -> float) is the same as (float -> float) -> float -> float
<flux>
oh, you were asking indeed about that your function right there, not float -> float :-)
<skow>
yeah
<skow>
^_^
<flux>
so because precedency, a -> b -> c -> d is the same as (a -> (b -> (c -> d)))
<skow>
alright, thanks
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<fasta>
Why doesn't opam work on a server distribution like Debian Stable?
<fasta>
Most people on the planet couldn't care less about testing versions.
<orbitz>
in what way doesn't it work?
<fasta>
orbitz: it doesn't work with the OCaml compiler distributed with Debian Stable.
<fasta>
These stable distributions are the recommended platform for end users and workstations.
<fasta>
If people then go and only distribute for other distributions, the whole point of a stable platform has no meaning.
<orbitz>
which version odes debian stable use?
<fasta>
3.11.2
<orbitz>
ah, old as dirt
<Qrntz>
that sounds more stable than both Stonehenge and the Egyptian pyramids combined
<thizanne>
fasta: using debian stable is accepting to use only outdated stuff
<thizanne>
if you want to use modern and beta programs, there is indeed no point in using a stable platform
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<fasta>
thizanne: you are now saying as if it's impossible or a lot of work to make opam work with 3.11.2.
<fasta>
thizanne: the point of Debian Stable is that people don't break it all day long.
<fasta>
thizanne: recommmending people to use broken platforms (testing/unstable or other even less testing distributions) is just wasting the time of people.
<fasta>
tested distributions*
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<fasta>
The concept of a monolithic distribution is mostly wrong.
<fasta>
A good OS would allow installing any version of anything all at the same time and well managed.
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<ousado>
"would"?
<fasta>
ousado: NixOS....
<ousado>
that may become an accurate description of what nixos allows in the future
<orbitz>
fasta: you can always boot starp opam with your own local ocaml and then install a local ocaml again through opam
<fasta>
orbitz: yes, I was actually going to install a nix version of ocaml to bootstrap.
<fasta>
orbitz: but to boostrap nix, I need something else due to site specific decisions.
<fasta>
bootstrap
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<fasta>
Who wrote utop again in this channel?
<orbitz>
It's by the Lwt guy I think, I'm not aware if he comes to this channel
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<diml>
fasta: me
<fasta>
diml: can you perhaps have a look at how pry works in Ruby and get inspired by it?
<fasta>
diml: my request would be: to display newline characters in a different color, like green.
<fasta>
diml: so, when "hello\nworld" is displayed, the "\n" would be in green.
<diml>
sure, i'll have a look
<fasta>
diml: these special characters really stand out in the pry tool in Ruby and I think it really enhances the experience.
<fasta>
diml: what's the status of the Emacs integration currently?
<diml>
fasta: it is working
<fasta>
diml: I forgot whether there was anything in the manual about that. If there isn't can you write something about that?
<fasta>
diml: I used it in combination with typerex at some point, but some things didn't work. I forgot what exactly, sorry.
<fasta>
diml: that was all. Otherwise I like the part where utop never fails.
<diml>
fasta: yes there is something about emacs integration already
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<fasta>
diml: have you ever seen typerex correctly working?
<diml>
i tried it once
<diml>
it seemed to work
<mcsquiggedy>
If you can wrestle ocamlbuild/omake/what have you into generating the typing files, it will work somewhat reliably.
<mcsquiggedy>
but that's heraclean in and of itself.
<fasta>
mcsquiggedy: somewhat reliably?
<fasta>
mcsquiggedy: aren't the annot files enough?
<mcsquiggedy>
well, it will always hem and haw when you try to make project-wide changes, and i've been led to believe that the project is out of date, and therefore might not work on certain syntax
<mcsquiggedy>
i have yet to see it actually produce inconsistent/broken results, but i've only used it on two projects or so
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<thizanne>
fasta: I just said that if you want to use Debian stable, then you want to use stable programs, and opam is not stable (because it's not even more than beta)
<thizanne>
and testing and sid are far away from "broken" platforms
<thizanne>
I have used archlinux for 3 years and never broke my system
<thizanne>
and it's far more unstable than debian, even sid
<fasta>
thizanne: my penis is larger than your penis.
<thizanne>
probably
<thizanne>
because I'm a woman
<gour>
lol
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<fasta>
thizanne: there are no women on IRC. Everybody knows that.
<thizanne>
(in fact I'm not, but I didn't want to say something like that, just pointing that testing is not unstable)
* gour
switched to sif some days ago after running wheezy for several months...much less admin work required than with arch & gentoo before
<gour>
*sid
<fasta>
thizanne: I am not talking about having to reinstall the system. I am talking about the part where you have no right to ask a question in for example #debian when there is some weird problem.
<fasta>
thizanne: testing and unstable are not in a releasable state for good reason.
<fasta>
thizanne: stable is intended to be used by people who have better things to do than chase library dependencies.
<thizanne>
fasta: the reason is that "stable" means, in Debian tongue, "this system and the software used with will never ever break"
<thizanne>
opam clearly does not come in this category
<fasta>
Technically, it probably does, since given it's limited scope it does seem to work more reliably than other tools in the same category which are already labeled as being stable.
<thizanne>
it's in beta version
<fasta>
The only bad thing about opam is that it's not nix.
<thizanne>
putting a beta version on debian stable is probably passible of death
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<fasta>
The coding quality of opam is likely higher than that of the core nix code.
<thizanne>
the deal with this distribution is clear: you will have a perfectly stable system, but you cant' use programs younger than 3 years old
<fasta>
thizanne: no, that's not at all true.
<thizanne>
now if you still want to do it, then install manually OCaml 4.00 and opam with it
<fasta>
thizanne: corporate people release for stable distributions.
<fasta>
thizanne: because those are used in production.
<fasta>
thizanne: that some open-source people don't do that is just because they don't care/don't know.
<thizanne>
(also, I'm out there, I see no point in arguing on "why cant i use a modern program with an obsolete by design distruibution")
<fasta>
thizanne: Debian Stable is not obsolete in any way.
<fasta>
thizanne: programmers which cannot write code to work for a production system are obsolete.
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<fasta>
thizanne: it's not even an issue for me anymore, since I managed to get it to run perfectly, now and in the future.
<fasta>
(hours ago, might I add)
<Qrntz>
I doubt your penis is longer than your tongue, fasta
<fasta>
Qrntz: what gay thoughts.
<fasta>
Qrntz: also, it was used metaphorically...
<fasta>
Qrntz: discussing penis sizes is for lesser beings.
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<edwin>
I'm trying to build 4.00.1 from source on my computer, but it can't find X11, so it's failing for the graph and labltk libs when I'm configuring it.
<edwin>
And running pkg-utils doesn't show x11 as a package
<edwin>
I'm currently running Ubuntu 12.10 (x86_64)
<edwin>
But apt-get shows it as installed under x11-common
<edwin>
Any idea how to fix it?
<edwin>
Or how to apply the patch in the link I found?
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<edwin>
Anyone?
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<oceanquake>
edwin: do you have the X11 headers installed? forget exactly what ubuntu calls them, but something like x11-dev or something?
<edwin>
One sec
<edwin>
Well, that fixed the graph module issue, but not labltk; apparently I don't have tk or tcl
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<oceanquake>
edwin: that makes sense. you'll need tk and the corresponding -dev package
<edwin>
OK, thanks
<edwin>
I can take it from here; thanks again for your help
<oceanquake>
you're quite welcome
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<mcsquiggedy>
I have a question about library nesting. I have an inner directory, whose omakefile exports libinner. Then I have an outer directory, which contains the inner directory. One of the modules in the outer one exports a type from the inner one; this is being called an undefined global.
<mcsquiggedy>
this is being built with omake, for what it's worth
<oceanquake>
oriba: thanks for the reponses yesterday regarding the two modules with cross-dependencies. It didn't make sense for me to move the functions between modules, but what finally did seem to make sense was to pull out the common function(s) into a separate module that both of the original modules can now depend on.
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<mfp>
mcsquiggedy: the 1st part of your description doesn't really match the error message :) (there should be no pb in that case; at most, you'd need to add $(ROOT)/src/outer/inner to OCAMLINCLUDES)
<mfp>
mcsquiggedy: instead, it looks as if Inner_module were using some value in Outer_module --- is that possible?
<mcsquiggedy>
mfp: it is not possible
<mcsquiggedy>
mfp: i tried moving inner out into src, and now the error isn't triggered
<mcsquiggedy>
mfp: in which OMakefile(s) would I need to add that path to OCAMLINCLUDES?
<mfp>
what does ocamlobjinfo say about libinner.cma ?
<oriba>
oceanquake, fine that it worked for you :-)
<mfp>
well, you could add it to the toplevel one before the .SUBDIRS clause, that should work
<mcsquiggedy>
okay
<mfp>
but the error msg you're getting is quite puzzling
<mfp>
does ocamlobjinfo inner/libinner.cma | grep Outer_module show anything?
<mcsquiggedy>
no
<mcsquiggedy>
oh
<mcsquiggedy>
dear
<mcsquiggedy>
sorry, it's reference to undefined global `Inner_module`
<mfp>
:) that makes a bit more sense
<mcsquiggedy>
the problem is that Outer_module exports an Inner_module.t
<mfp>
that should be no pb really. At compile time, you'd just need to have inner/ in the OCAMLINCLUDES. And at link time, you just have to link libinner before libouter(?).
<mfp>
but it seems there's something funny in the choice of modules being added into the .cmas or something
<mcsquiggedy>
weird
<mcsquiggedy>
okay, for some reason i've started getting completely unrelated, completely arcane errors with one of the modules in out not finding another module in the same directory, despite neither depending on inner. I think I'm just going to have to rewrite the whole build chain.
<mfp>
do you have any custom rules in your OMakefiles, e.g. something that uses ocamlc directly to link instead of using the functions supplied with OMake like OCamlProgram?
<mcsquiggedy>
nope
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