adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
<dsheets> could you run with line 305 to tell also the number of words? is it greater than 3?
<m4b> one second: alternatively, here are the array version implementation of those functions: dpaste.com/901328/
<m4b> dsheets: also, thank you for looking into this, regardless of the outcome, I appreciate you taking your time very much :)
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<m4b> there are 5 mallocs on the same address, with words: 3 5 3 5 3, respectively
<dsheets> m4b: what does "offset" mean? if you malloc'd 3 words but then use "offset" on line 319 to index, shouldn't you subtract 1?
<dsheets> i mean, it makes sense if it's really an offset… but clearly you can't get an offset of 3 into a block of 3 whose largest offset is 2, no? am i missing something?
<m4b> offsets start at 0; there are several other binaries, squaring, factorial, etc., which all run fine with the hashtable and array version; but those are smaller programs, and less allocing and deallocing is occuring
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<m4b> index array problems occurred earlier in the implementation when it wasn't quite implemented right; since they are working with the other problems fine, and I get no cases of out of bounds there, and in this case it is clearly when the address was mallocd, then dealloced, etc., that a problem occurred, and hence I suspect the hash tables
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<dsheets> hmm… but it seems like an off-by-one problem, no? if the last malloc was for 3 words and then you want the word at offset 3… that's a fault, right?
<dsheets> are you sure the array version is not incorrectly passing a buggy program?
<m4b> i agree; however the off-by-one problem would definitely have occurred in a previous problem, square, if it was the issue; i've looked through that assembly for quite some time, and there are many cases where if the index isn't implemented right, it's an off-by-one; notice however, the previous malloc had 5 words
<m4b> i have independent verification that the program runs on a vm implemented in haskell; i do have high hopes however if I can get the hashtable version running, it will be faster :D
<m4b> i'm going to put the same printfs in the array version, and see if the execution is running in parallel; if not, then the issue is deeper, and probably a small bug somewhere else affecting the execution
<dsheets> indeed. i'm not sure the trouble is with the hashtbls, though. doing a.(3) on an array a with length 3 should fail
<m4b> yes, it should
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<dsheets> and from the debug output, that seems to be the case
<hongboz> hi guys, would you mind sharing your experience when you meet segfault in ocaml?
<m4b> dsheets: i know its tempting to think its an off-by-one, but I assure you, it isn't a dereferencing problem; the aidx and aupd pattern matching is _exactly_ the same for both versions; for the update function, since the same offset is passed in and used to dereference that array's value at that offset, it simply can't be the problem with aidx and aupd instructions being misimplemented; it has to be the hash table, or it has to be a
<m4b> deeper program logic flaw.
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<dsheets> m4b: right. your debug output seems to indicate that an array of length 3 should exist at hashtbl location 346 and your machine fault indicates that the offset into the page at 346 should be 3… these can't be true while the input program is bug-free. Can you instrument your other interpreters to tell you more info about their behavior in this exact spot?
<m4b> dsheets: yes, that is a correct analysis. so the program executions diverge after dealloc 661; the array version then mallocs 662; the hashtable version mallocs 661, both with two words; the hashtable then deallocs 661, while the array deallocs 662; not sure what to make of that...
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<m4b> does Hashtbl.length count the invisible elements?
<dsheets> invisible? Hashtbl.length counts the number of values (which may be fewer than keys)
<dsheets> rather… greater than keys
<dsheets> anyway, use replace and they will be equal
<m4b> so since one version calculates the new address using Hashtbl.length and returns that value as the new address, whereas the other calculates it by Array.length and returns that value, they'll eventually return different values, correct?
<m4b> the hashtable version with all that output uses replace; add isn't present anywhere, except when initializing the program
<dsheets> yes, so i believe that length should be the same
<m4b> yes, actually that output makes sense; the array version wastes space by replacing dealloc'd arrays with FREE; whereas the hashtable actually reuses the space
<dsheets> you keep no free-list
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<dsheets> and newAddress will be wrong a lot in the Hashtbl version
<dsheets> because you always expect a fresh address but then get back a used address
<dsheets> so, keep a free-list?
<dsheets> or dealloc by replacing by [||] instead of removing?
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<m4b> oh! I think i may see what you're saying; the length version returns the size of the hashtable; but it just might happen that that same number was given before, the table was then expanded, then shrunk again with deallocs, and the same size is encountered, and so the number is given. Damn! that might be it right there! However, deallocing with [||] undesirable for the reason that it is just wasting memory; and memory becoming a huge
<m4b> problem; the 15 meg binary is using about 1.5-2 gigs of ram when executing.
<dsheets> does it match your machine model? [||] wastes 1 hash table entry and 1 gc block
<dsheets> i believe deallocing with [||] is the model that is implemented with arrays and FREE
<m4b> it is what is implemented with the arrays and FREE; but that specifically isn't required by the machine; all that is required by the assembly instruction "malloc 2 5", for example, is: allocate an array with the number of words found in register 5, and put the _unique_ identifier in register 2
<m4b> but I think what you've made me realize is my newAddress function for hashtables isn't guaranteeing a unique identifier!
<dsheets> yes. use a free list if having [||] table entries bothers you. when dealloc, push onto the free list. when alloc, pop.
<m4b> i'm unfamiliar with what a free list is?
<dsheets> m4b: a list tracking free memory
<dsheets> i think in your case: free_list : int list
<m4b> dsheets: ok, right; i'll implement that for a correct version; right now just using a stupid brute force recursive function to actually check if that's the problem :D
* dsheets wanders away
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<m4b> dsheets: that was it :D thank you so much for troubleshooting a problem that turned out to be nothing related to the map module :DDD
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<travisbrady> I'm looking to wrap this library: https://github.com/edenhill/librdkafka but it uses pthreads. Will I need to do anything special to handle that?
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<m4b> dsheets: take care, have a good night/morning/afternoon, and again, I appreciate the help!
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<derek_c> ('a -> 'a -> 'b) -> 'a -> ('a -> 'b) * 'b
<derek_c> can anyone think of an expression that will result in a type like that?
<derek_c> I don't understand how to get ('a -> 'a -> 'b)
<derek_c> that should be a function right?
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<derek_c> in general, I just wonder how you can possibly get a function like ('a -> 'b)?
<derek_c> let f x = ?
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<PM> derek_c: a function that raise an exception (like fun a -> failwith "") is of type 'a -> 'b
<derek_c> PM: Is that the only way?
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<PM> … or a function that never ends :-) like let rec f x = f x
<PM> derek_c: I don’t known another way to do it, but there may be more
<derek_c> hmm, that really helps!
<derek_c> so how about ('a -> 'a -> 'b)?
<derek_c> if I do:
<derek_c> let x = fun y -> something
<derek_c> that will be ('a -> 'b -> something)
<PM> what is your use case? I’m curious
<derek_c> no, that's just a homework question
<PM> I see ;-)
<derek_c> we need to come up with expressions that result in the specified type
<PM> alright, then: how could you make the type inference assure that x and y are of the same type in: let x y = failwith "nonsense"?
<derek_c> give me a sec
<derek_c> hmm, I'm trying to do this:
<derek_c> let x y = let q = [x; y] in failwith "dwadaw";;
<derek_c> but it's ('a -> 'b) -> 'c
<derek_c> I thought if I put two things in a list
<derek_c> they will be of the same type
<PM> they should actually
<PM> it works on my machine
<derek_c> wait really??
<PM> # let f x y = let _ = [x;y] in failwith "";;
<derek_c> oh I see
<PM> val f : 'a -> 'a -> 'b = <fun>
<PM> ah, you made a typo ;)
<derek_c> lol
<derek_c> yeah, and I defined x earlier
<derek_c> I missed the f
<derek_c> hmm cool, let me if I can solve this problem then
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<derek_c> OMG this is so hard
<derek_c> let f2 = (fun x -> failwith "whatever", failwith "whatever");;
<derek_c> I'm expecting ('a -> 'b) * 'b
<derek_c> but this results in 'a -> 'b * 'c
<PM> can you see why?
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<derek_c> not really... unless failwith doesn't return the same type each time
<PM> that’s the meaning of 'b in 'a -> 'b
<PM> plus: (fun x -> x, x) => fun x -> (x, x) ("," has a higher priority than "->", that’s basically a parsing issue)
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<derek_c> PM: thank you, I will think about this
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<rixed> Someone managed to get BER N100 up and running?
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<protz> how can I distribute a cmxs file with ocamlfind? i.e. what do I put in my META file?
<protz> there are no examples on the ocamlfind website
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<protz> just a BNF grammar for META files, and looking at other packages, none of them seems to distribute cmxs files
<pippijn> hmm
<pippijn> oasis adds the line you need
<pippijn> it has "plugin" in it
<protz> not interested in oasis, thanks :)
<pippijn> are you stupid?
<pippijn> > it adds the line you need
<pippijn> so using it to create a hello world project will teach you what line you need to add
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<pippijn> (oasis 0.3+ by the way)
<adrien_oww> I'm not sure cmxs file smake a lot of sense in META files
<adrien_oww> could be wrong
<pippijn> adrien_oww: cmxs are plugins, no?
<adrien_oww> yes
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<pippijn> what's that web server called again?
<pippijn> ocsigen
<pippijn> that one can use cmxs from META, I think
<pippijn> the oasis changelog mentioned it when giving the reason for this change
<protz> adrien: thanks, I realize I confused cmxs and cmx
<pippijn> oh
<protz> adrien: it's the cmx I want to distribute along with the cma and the cmxa
<pippijn> why?
<pippijn> the cmx are inside the cmxa
<protz> pippijn: to enable cross-module optimizations in native code?
<pippijn> aren't they?
<protz> I thought they were *not* in the cmxa?
<pippijn> hmm
<pippijn> I'm pretty sure they are, because I seem to remember problems caused by it
<protz> pippijn: correct, I just checked the reference manual
<protz> thanks!
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<pippijn> either way, cmx files definitely don't go into the META file
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<mfp> pippijn> the cmx are inside the cmxa -> ??? I thought cross-module inlining only happened when you had the .cmx around
<protz> mfp: I thought too...
<mfp> protz: what did you find in the reference manual? (protz> pippijn: correct, I just checked the reference manual)
<protz> mfp: Such a library packs in two files (lib.cmxa and lib.a/.lib) a set of object files (.cmx and .o/.obj files).
<thomasga> if you have a cmxa the cmx files are optionals
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<thomasga> if they are in the path, they are used
<thomasga> otherwise, the compiler doens't care
<pippijn> thomasga: are they useful?
<thomasga> for cross-module inlining yes
<thomasga> ie. if you want improved performance
<pippijn> ok
<thomasga> otherwise not really
<protz> thomasga: what I did is I'm not mentioning them in the META file but I'm installing them through the call to ocamlfind install
<pippijn> then I guess I remember incorrectly
<protz> which solves my problem
<thomasga> protz: that's indeed the right way to go
<protz> thomasga: so in my case I'm building the .cma and the .cmxa (it's a library); does that mean I should install other the other cmx from all the other individual files that make up the big cmxa ?
<protz> because ocamlbuild mylib.cmxa yields nothing
<thomasga> you can install the cmx if you want cross-module optimizations
<thomasga> if you don't install the cmx files, this will still works
<protz> thomasga: which cmx? I can't find out how to build mylib.cmx
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<thomasga> not for the lib itself
<protz> thomasga: thanks, that answers my question :)
<thomasga> for the modules in the lib
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<osa1> Set module doesn't have any set operations? http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/libref/Set.html
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<mfp> osa1: add/remove element, union, intersection, difference... http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/libref/Set.S.html
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<osa1> do we have a funciton like Printf.printf but to generate interpolated strings ?
<osa1> or can I print to some kind of string streams ?
<PM> osa1: are you looking for Printf.sprintf ?
<osa1> yes, thanks
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<skow> Hai guys,a question - what does it this mean -> arrays and lists are isomorphic data structure
<skow> don't understand the meaning of isomorphic
<skow> in this context I mean
<skow> do they just mean, they are the same - nothing more?
<Kakadu> I think it is just mathemetical `isomorphic`
<skow> ok
<skow> thanks
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<nicoo> skow: It is probably false, though : there are infinite lists; there is no infinite array
<chattered> What's the context? It doesn't immediately sound like a particularly useful statement to make, anyway.
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<orbitz> anyone know when CUFP for 2013 will have info up? what is last call for presentations nad all
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<troydm> orbitz: CUFP 2012 videos that i've seen were not of the best quality
<troydm> i hope they will make up for it in this year
<troydm> no wait my bad
<troydm> i've mixed up Ocaml meetings vids with CUFP
<troydm> CUFP's vids are indeed good
<troydm> but Ocaml meetings vids are meh :(
<avsm> sorry. really depends on the local arrangements
<avsm> orbitz: the call for proposals should be out soon; you have a few months
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<skow> hi guys, I wonder where does hd::tl in: let test arg = match arg with hd::tl -> tl;; come from...
<ben_zen> skow: it's a pattern; if arg is a list containing at least one element, it has the form hd::tl, where hd is the first element in the list, and tl is the rest.
<skow> ben_zen, when can I fnd the list of patterns available?
<ben_zen> skow: there are as many patterns available as there are constructs you can make in the language.
<skow> ah, ok
<ben_zen> They tend to fall along the lines of specific values (0, 1, 2, 'a', 'b', ...)
<ben_zen> or ways the data is arranged (hd::tl, [], (a, b, c, d))
<ben_zen> or as variants of a type.
<skow> ok, thanks!
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<orbitz> avsm: great, thanks
<orbitz> trying to find something I can talk about so my work will pay for me to go :)
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<invariant> What can I do about this? Fatal error: cannot load shared library dlllwt-unix_stubs
<invariant> This happens when executing 4.00.1/bin/utop
<thelema> invariant: sounds like your ld.conf file doesn't have the path to where lwt's stubs were installed
<invariant> thelema, but I did the eval opam config dance.
<avsm> you're using OPAM from git, aren't you?
<avsm> there was a small window where the CAML_LD_LIBRARY_PATH was broken a few days ago
<avsm> if you update to the latest, it'll work
<invariant> avsm, yes, that works.
<invariant> How nice is it to update and recompile opam in 2 minutes :)
<invariant> Or 10 keystrokes to test.
<invariant> Is there some Money type in OCaml too?
<invariant> By OCaml, I mean anywhere on the Internet.
<thelema> invariant: int
<invariant> thelema, that doesn't even cover overflow.
<thelema> Int64.t
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<invariant> thelema, does that cover overflow?
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<thelema> invariant: yes, in that it can't overflow with all the money in the world
<thelema> Batteries has a Int.Safe_int module that errors on overflow
<thelema> no Int64.Safe_int; so only very large safe ints on 64-bit platforms
<invariant> thelema, the advantage of overflow would be that it would be an extra safety net to make sure nothing "weird" is going on.
<thelema> yes, yes.
<djcoin> What are the technics in other languages to prevent/raise integer overflow errors ?
<thelema> djcoin: Ada has this built into the language standard, and it's up to the compiler authors to implement it efficiently
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<PM> djcoin: python has abritrary precision integer arithmetic… and thus prevents integer overflow/underflow
<thelema> some languages promote to a larger int type
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<djcoin> yeah, promoting ? I hope you don't play with bits mask or something then
<thelema> these are usually languages that don't demand super performance
<thelema> djcoin: promoting requires some sort of dynamic dispatch of (+)
<companion_cube> you can use Num in ocaml
<djcoin> And at the deepest level, I guess you can't avoid an overflow detection after or before each operation I guess ?
<thelema> djcoin: correct. there's flags that can be checked on x86, but there's still a test + branch required
<thelema> although branch prediction will eliminate much of the cost of this
<thelema> assuming you're not overflowing often
<djcoin> Ah yeah, the flag is always set up of course, right. Yeah, so it does not cost so much. I'm not really aware of branch prediction behaviour, is it just a way of saying to the compiler "most of the time there won't be any overflow so optimize this branch" (I mean static prediction) ?
<djcoin> yeah
<thelema> what would the compiler do in that case? It still has to emit the branch
<thelema> err, ignore
<thelema> branch prediction is something that the CPU does.
<djcoin> Well, I know there are instructions for gcc to make him prefer one branch other the other
<djcoin> I guess it saves a "jmp" isntruction
<djcoin> at the assembly level
<thelema> looking at how often each branch of a test is taken, it can speculatively execute the more common one
<djcoin> s/other the other/over the other
<thelema> before the result of the test is known
<thelema> if it's right, then it sped things up, if it was wrong, it has to throw away the work it just did and restart with the other branch
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<thelema> it's extremely messy
<djcoin> thanks :)
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<chattered> It's an advertisement for Ocaml, if you think about the fact that Haskell's laziness makes my proposition data-type wrong.
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<travisbrady> Anyone know of code implementing a simple tcp client with Async? or have thoughts on using Async vs Lwt?
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<thelema> House and Shinwell gave a presentation on async at OUD with simple TCP stuff, but I can't find their code online...
<orbitz> chec kout ocaml-tutorial on avsm's github
<orbitz> that was from the OUD tutorial
<orbitz> which has a simplemessage broker in async
<orbitz> so far i've been happy with Async, I haven't done a lot with it though
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<chattered> I generally like lwt. Haven't seen async, so thanks for the link!
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<travisbrady> orbitz: thank you for the pointers
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pangoafk is now known as pango