<Kakadu>
I spent last weeek trying to build my OCaml+QML stuff on other machines than mine.
<Kakadu>
And now I know that in Mac Qt 5.0.2 can probably doesn't redraw a windows because some bug message
<Kakadu>
And also I know that linking with Qt5.0.1 pacakges in Ubuntu 13.04 is broken
<pippijn>
what are you doing with ocaml+qml?
<Kakadu>
Hence, best environment to built it is mine debian/unstable and Qt5 built from git
<pippijn>
bindings?
<orbitz>
Kakadu: make a Nix package, that will tell you the best way to build it in isolation:)
<Kakadu>
I just don't now how to write in caml-list something like "My stuff probably will not compile onyour machine"
<Kakadu>
pippijn: Some codegenerator and test example with a la ocamlbrowser application
<orbitz>
Kakadu: i believe the technical term is 'pre-alpha'
<Kakadu>
orbitz: static linking?
<pippijn>
ah
<pippijn>
nice
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<orbitz>
Kakadu: no, I actually don't think nix will help you here, but i just like to see things in nix packages since it's a pretty good key for how to build something + deps have to be extremely explicit since it buidls in chroot jail
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<Kakadu>
orbitz: So, are you recommending me to built my code in debian chroot?
<orbitz>
Kakadu: well if you install Nix you just write a nix package and it takes care of it for you
<orbitz>
I personally have found it useful for determining how to get things to build in a replicatable fashion. But I already run Nix so it probably isn't worth it for yourself
<Kakadu>
hmmm, it seems Nix is not a short word for unixes here ....
<orbitz>
It is not, it is a package manager
<orbitz>
I run NixOS as my primary development distro
<Kakadu>
purely-functional storing of packages.... This approach probably uses a lot disk space
<pippijn>
orbitz: that's cool
<pippijn>
orbitz: I've had my eye on nixos for years
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<pippijn>
orbitz: it builds packages in an empty chroot jail?
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<pippijn>
orbitz: how does it handle dependencies?
<pippijn>
orbitz: I suppose things you've already installed on your system will be copied over?
<pippijn>
(or bind-mounted)
<Kakadu>
hmmm,
<Kakadu>
I don't feel enough power and disk space today to study this NixOS
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<orbitz>
pippijn: you specify dependencies explicilty
<orbitz>
Kakadu: it does use more, but it has a garbage collector
<orbitz>
pippijn: bind mounting
<pippijn>
orbitz: and the ones that are not installed in the system?
<orbitz>
pippijn: will be installed
<orbitz>
pippijn: installing a package is equivalent to evaluating a thunk
<orbitz>
so installing something has to evaluate what it depends on so it can get to their values
<pippijn>
oh
<pippijn>
ok, I see
<pippijn>
can you build a package without installing it?
<orbitz>
what's the difference?
<pippijn>
does nixos have binary packages at all?
<orbitz>
it supports source, prebuilt binaries, and third party binaries (like java)
<pippijn>
in debian, you build a package in a subdirectory, and then install it
<pippijn>
a .deb file (cpio)
<orbitz>
installing a package = building it (or downloading it), then creating some symlinks to the /nix/store path that you can now see
<adrien>
(jdk isn't a third-party binary anymore btw)
<orbitz>
uninstalling == removing symlinks
<adrien>
(rather, shouldn't be ; since the one from oracle can't be redistributed)
<orbitz>
and to really remove it, you do a garbage collect
<pippijn>
I see
<orbitz>
so /usr/bin is basically empty
<orbitz>
the cool thing is, users can install packages without being root and without affecting other users env
<orbitz>
so i can install ocaml 3.12, and you can install 4.00.1 on the same system and we'll never conflict
<adrien>
where I disagree with nix is that there *ARE* hardcoded paths in binaries
<pippijn>
is that a problem with nix or with that program?
<adrien>
I'm having troubles understanding how you can have per-user installation of binary packages
<adrien>
and I don't like source-based package managers that much
<pippijn>
it should have a kind of union fs
<adrien>
I'm fine with that for ocaml since I need to rebuild often but not for other things
<adrien>
pippijn: you need to be root for that
<pippijn>
where /usr is the union of all system installed packages
<adrien>
everyone on the system will see the same thing
<pippijn>
and a user sees a /usr with his packages mounted, as well
<adrien>
not _his_: _all_
<pippijn>
yeah, so there should be user-specific views
<adrien>
that doesn't exist :P
<pippijn>
just like freebsd has user-specific process tables
<adrien>
unioning filesystems are already a very big issue
<pippijn>
that should exist :)
<adrien>
they're not in the linux kernel because of thse (although one fairly simple is likely to get in very soon)
<adrien>
and filesystems providing views sound even worse
<pippijn>
what issues?
<adrien>
linux also has a user-specific process table but that is done through permissions
<adrien>
but, using a system with per-user ability to list processes, I can guarantee you it's often awful
<adrien>
want to know what's causing the high load on the system? you won't
<pippijn>
yeah, I know
<adrien>
which is why I consider the authors of pax/grsec quite stupid for some things (i.e. they remove the ability to see processes from others, which good for security, but they don't provide anything to fill in the gap they've left)
<adrien>
anyway, for unioning file systems, you should try to find a series of article by valerie aurora (iirc) on lwn.net
<adrien>
pretty good read; it's from a few years ago
<adrien>
if you can't find it, let me know, I'll dig it up for uyou
<orbitz>
adrien: because a users env is just a bunch of symlins from ~/.nix-profile, so I can isntall x and it's in my profile and you can install y and it's in your pfoile
<pippijn>
adrien: replace the if match/else/... code with an arbitrarily complex function that checks whether you're in a string and sets the text width appropriately
<pippijn>
this might be enough, though
<adrien>
ok, thanks; I'll have to spend some time dissecting that
<pippijn>
I think in ocaml you can do
<pippijn>
let foo = "blah blah \
<pippijn>
blah blah"
<pippijn>
and it's "blah blah blah blah"
<rks_>
indeed
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<romildo>
It seems that tuareg-mode-2.0.6 is not respecting tuareg-match-clause-indent:
<romildo>
| pattern ->
<romildo>
clause
<romildo>
What shoud I do to get:
<romildo>
| pattern ->
<romildo>
clause
<romildo>
Any clues?
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<Kakadu>
Try to use ocp-indent
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<wmeyer>
to answer romildo's question: 'M-x customize-mode <ENTER> tuareg-mode <ENTER>' brings immediately to indentation options for tuareg. There is of course other another way always, you can directly customize the variables.
<bernardofpc>
is it possible to align after the -> ?
<wmeyer>
you'd have to experiment, the answer is: I don't know :-)
<bernardofpc>
;-)
<wmeyer>
for sure tuareg-mode brings a lot of identation options to the user
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<wmeyer>
Now I see that romildo has tried to use some variable
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<wmeyer>
adrien: hey :-)
<adrien>
o/
<wmeyer>
\o
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<ollehar>
how do I uninstall ocaml? purge doesn't work (ubuntu), the command is still there. need to start from scratch after major screw-up.
<ollehar>
*command = ocaml
<orbitz>
sounds like a distro problem
<orbitz>
for me, nix-env -e ocaml
<ollehar>
naw, it started when I tried to install branch ocaml-contract (adapted from 3.12.1), but I have 4.00.1 on my system.
<orbitz>
why is that not a distro problem?
<ollehar>
ah, you mean ocaml distro. not linux distro :)
<orbitz>
no, i mean linux distro
<ollehar>
hm
<ollehar>
what's "nix-env"?
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<wmeyer>
ollehar: it's Nix based distro
<ollehar>
ok
<orbitz>
it's the command for installing/uninstalling packages in Nix
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<wmeyer>
I think I can use OCaml to write my shell scripts ;-) (for many people a dodgy idea)
<orbitz>
jane st claims to do it
<wmeyer>
they do
<wmeyer>
it brings safety for sure ;-)
<pippijn>
with a small library of common functions
<pippijn>
that is very reasonable
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<pippijn>
the guy who turned SML/NJ into Mythryl also does that
<pippijn>
(with mythryl)
<wmeyer>
dsheets: wow, you are in CB
<pippijn>
(cynbe)
<wwilly>
hiop
<wmeyer>
pippijn: there is Cash, and ShCaml
<wmeyer>
both of them have some good stuff
<wmeyer>
ShCaml seems to use very advanced type system features
<pippijn>
like what?
<wmeyer>
Cash is more like Scheme shell
<pippijn>
ocaml's type system is rather simple
<pippijn>
what advanced features does it use?
<wmeyer>
phantom types with subtyping
<wmeyer>
pippijn: yes, but it's heavy
<pippijn>
maybe I'm old now
<pippijn>
but phantom types feel very natural to me
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<orbitz>
phantom types are natural, i don't know what 'with subtyping' exactly means though
<wmeyer>
means that you annotate your phantom types using class types, which have structural subtyping relations
<wmeyer>
they have dummy methods to express properties of your type
<pippijn>
meh
<wmeyer>
the same approach as in Macaque
<wmeyer>
internally the ShCaml uses row types
<pippijn>
I like the lablgtk way
<wmeyer>
polymorphi variants?
<pippijn>
yes
<pippijn>
it has the same effect as classes
<wmeyer>
well Shcaml does not use objects, but it does use row types (class types expressed in compact syntax)
<ollehar>
should I specify something in ./configure?
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<ollehar>
or what's the ocaml lib path again?
<orbitz>
depends on where it's installed
<wmeyer>
ollehar: some older versions of ocamlgraph are not ocamlfind enabled AFAIK, you have to add "-I ocamlgraph graph.cma" to your command line before your cmo's
<ollehar>
you mean -I +ocamlgraph etc? yeah, that's done in the makefile of ocaml-contracts
<ollehar>
can't I `echo $OCAML_LIB_PATH`?
<wmeyer>
it's usually not enough as ocamlgraph is a separate directory
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<ollehar>
so if caml is not looking in /usr/lib/ocaml, how do I know where it's looking?
<orbitz>
Do you care where it is looking, or do you just want to tell itto look more palces?
<ollehar>
look more placec would do
<ollehar>
*places
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<orbitz>
Are you using ocamlfind?
<ollehar>
it's an ocaml branch, so there answer is no, I think
<ollehar>
there is this line:
<ollehar>
COMPFLAGS=-warn-error A -I +ocamlgraph $(INCLUDES)
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<ollehar>
in the makefile
<orbitz>
What are you having compiling? A library for ocaml, or ocaml itself/