flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<adrien> morning
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<ousado> mmm.. tasty..
* ousado is reading about HAMT
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<hcarty> 
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<ousado> hihi "This code is adapted from the one Phil Bagwell proposes in C in his paper. I have no clue why it works (and I do not want to) .."
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<adrien_oww> /usr/include/time.h:336: note: expected ‘struct timespec *’ but argument is of type ‘struct timespec *’
* adrien_oww is happy to get these in C too
<pippijn> haha
<adrien_oww> seems to be when you include time.h twice
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<nickray> ?leave
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<ggole> adrien_oww: probably caused by premature use of a forward declared struct.
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<ggole> If you have a prototype like void some_func(struct foo *arg);, it actually forward declares a useless type struct foo that has scope limited to the parameter list.
<ggole> Which is crazy.
<ggole> It can arise if you forget to include headers.
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<gasche> fasta: I strongly disagree with the way you adressed yourself to the merlin developers earlier
<gasche> pointing out flaws is fine
<gasche> but being an asshole is not
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<gasche> that's just not what the community standards are
<gasche> (at least on the caml-list; I would expect a similar level of civility on the IRC channel)
<fasta> gasche: I expect people not to publish poop.
<gasche> and yet you're telling me that we need more libraries
<gasche> the environment you create by trashing people for bugs is exactly counter-productive for this to happen
<fasta> gasche: there is an implicit word in everything I say: quality. Perhaps you have heard of it?
<gasche> You may think that in free software circles, the content of your message is infitinely superior to its form, and being a douche when telling something is acceptable
<gasche> it's *not*
<fasta> gasche: also, creating more libraries is a stupid idea.
<gasche> please be more polite in your comments, whatever their content is
<fasta> gasche: people should just build compilers.
<fasta> gasche: compilers that port open-source libraries from one language to another.
<fasta> gasche: such that you would get all the Haskell libraries for free for example.
<fasta> gasche: I mean, like duh...
<fasta> Reimplenting the wheel is only good if you want a subsidy from some government.
<fasta> er grant
<gasche> I'm not sure whether you're actively trying to troll or not
<fasta> Oh, noes! I exposed the OCaml masterplan!
<gasche> I'm fine with snarky trolling as long as it is polite
<gasche> but being disrespectful of people is not fine
<fasta> gasche: I think it is fundamentally a dumb idea to reimplement a library that already exists in many other compatible languages.
<fasta> gasche: so, everyone can do these things manually, but don't expect me to clap in my hands because they are so smart.
<gasche> well I would be ready to discuss the merits and difficulties of your porting idea at some point
<fasta> Well, not now.
<gasche> (there happen to be people trying to do that, and it's not easy)
<gasche> now I'm concentrating on trying to make you understand that the way you adress yourself to people here is inacceptable
<gasche> I won't hesitate to report it to the proper moderators and ask for you to be kicked out of the chan if you cannot respect other people
<gasche> (I understand you may have a bad day; we all have; but then maybe you should apologize at some later point, and not do that again)
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<fasta> gasche: let me be very clear: I fucking hate people that tell other people what to do.
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<fasta> gasche: go and do something useful with your time or become a social worker.
<thizanne> fasta: then maybe don't tell merlin developers what to do
<fasta> thizanne: why not? They wasted my time and that of others.
<fasta> thizanne: if you annouce yourself to be an improvement, be one.
<thizanne> I don't know if I find you funny or just disgusting, I'll think about it :)
<fasta> announce*
<companion_cube> it's certainly an improvement on having nothing
<fasta> companion_cube: I disagree on that.
<companion_cube> well, you can
<companion_cube> but then just write something better
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<fasta> What kind of logic is that?
<orbitz> omg
<orbitz> stfu plz
<fasta> orbitz: I hope you mean "all of us".
<orbitz> yes
<djcoin> fasta: don't you have any kind of respect ? People are doing there best and they release their work freely. Do you think yelling at those people will make anything better ?
<djcoin> s/there/their
<fasta> djcoin: you don't have any respect for orbitz.
<djcoin> You are hilarious
<fasta> djcoin: you are twisting reality in ways unheard of.
<adrien> ok, next one on this gets a kickban
<wmeyer> hi
<companion_cube> hello
<def-lkb> hi
<bernardofpc> note to the asm-lovers out there
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<bernardofpc> leal -1(%rax, %rbx), %rdx is *slow* on sandy-bridge
<orbitz> sometimes i feel i'd like to reconnect with ASM
<orbitz> it just soudns so terrible
<bernardofpc> It used not to be before
<bernardofpc> but sounds like intel decided that 3-operand leal (index, base, offset) is not 1-st class anymore
<wmeyer> slower than add %rdx,%rbx; add %rdx, %eax; dec %rax ?
<bernardofpc> wmeyer: no
<wmeyer> sorry: dec %rdx ?
<bernardofpc> same latency
<bernardofpc> (dunno about throughput)
<wmeyer> I don't like complexing addressing too much
<wmeyer> (ARM boy)
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<bernardofpc> but that might be an argument to keep all integers in their (x-1)>>1 form as long as possible
<bernardofpc> and in fact
<bernardofpc> you don't need two adds, it is just add %rax, %rbx ; dec %rbx
<bernardofpc> (modulo some register aliasing and such)
<wmeyer> first add should be mov
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<wmeyer> (mistake)
* adrien is sure wmeyer is an x86-lover
<bitbckt> adrien: them's fighting words.
* wmeyer slaps adrien
<bitbckt> ^^
<bitbckt> :)
<adrien> :-)
<wmeyer> :-]
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* fasta only would like to know which, if any, is superior when the shrinking process stops
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<ggole> dec should usually be avoided, btw
<adrien> alpha ftw!
<ggole> Unlike everything else it doesn't affect CF, so it causes dependency problems
<ggole> Silly 8086 :(
* fasta also believes that it is a bad idea to hardcode these decisions in a compiler for every model of CPU
<fasta> If your compiler doesn't automatically adapt to slower instructions, you are Doing It Wrong.
<fasta> Any such decisions about 'code sequence foo' is slow have long been solved in research papers before.
<fasta> There is no point in discussing it.
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<companion_cube> we should write a tool that automatically extracts compiler code from academic papers
<bernardofpc> oh yeah
<bernardofpc> but first you'd have to partner with the evil Google to have their character recognition
<adrien> :-)
<adrien> bernardofpc: you mean, recaptcha? ;-)
<bernardofpc> adrien: maybe :D
<companion_cube> and also to make a google tool that gives you code in any language when you type the name of the algorithm in the search bar
<bernardofpc> one sysadmin said once that recaptcha is pretty useless in fact
<bernardofpc> because one is "easy", the other hard
<bernardofpc> and it only needs you to have the easy right
<ggole> Compiler papers usually describe compiler generation tools... so it would be a compiler compiler compiler?
<adrien> yes, it's fairly useless since you can very easily guess which one is the real one and which one is made up
<bernardofpc> and the easy, a computer can get
<companion_cube> ggole: well obviously, the first thing to do is implement a 'fix' operator for compilers
<adrien> and the real one is often not difficult
<companion_cube> fix : (compiler -> compiler) -> compiler
<bernardofpc> maybe their db is becomming big enough
<bernardofpc> so now even the one they know is hard for a computer to tell
* wmeyer is silent
<bernardofpc> but like 2 years ago it was not the case
<companion_cube> I bet the spammers already have tools to generate code from papers
<adrien> bernardofpc: well, both should be unknown actuallyu
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<adrien> iirc the idea was to have two unknown texts
<adrien> you'd somehow manage to become confident that one is ABCDE
<adrien> then you ask people to guess that one, and another one that you don't know
<adrien> and they have to guess both
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<adrien> nowadays you know the made-up one since it has a wavey shape
<def-lkb> maybe they could use two scanned words, one they know nothing about, the other they got enough answer from previous captcha's to have confidence what the correct answer is
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<wmeyer> def-lkb: we could generate another instance of fasta using this techniques and put fasta2 on the Haskell channel
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<companion_cube> I think a move semantics is more efficient
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<wmeyer> we could arrange a private channel for both of them
<wmeyer> to keep both fasta's busy
<def-lkb> don't feed the troll :)
<wmeyer> :D
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<fasta> wmeyer: what exactly do you not agree on?
<fasta> For an academic language, lots of you appear to be very shortsighted.
<thizanne> I might be wrong, but I don't think he said he "disagreed" with anything
<fasta> In case you did happen to be ignorant: $searchengine automatic peephole optimization
<fasta> thizanne: no, but multiple people are calling me a troll.
<thizanne> I really have no idea why
<fasta> thizanne: sarcasm can be detected by everyone now!
<thizanne> I heard trolling too, but I'm not sure of this one
<fasta> I will just put def-lkb on my ignore list. Everyone who calls me literally a troll will be put on it.
<thizanne> I think I did it a day
<adrien> I really want this to be over so
<adrien> so no name-calling no matter the reasons
<adrien> ok?
<adrien> (that was a rhetoric question in case anyone had doubts about that)
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* ousado admires and applauds this channels overall patience
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