flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<adrien> morning
<adrien> wmeyer: more reviews is better :)
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<AltGr> Hi there
<AltGr> is there a reason why `let module M = (val m : S with type 'a elt = a) in` doesn't parse ?
<AltGr> it seems you can't specify `with type` constraints with polymorphic types in first-class modules
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<AltGr> there is probably a good reason for that, but I wasn't expecting a syntax error ?
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<Anarchos> AltGr let module M = (module m : S ....) in ...
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<AltGr> Anarchos: it parses if I remove the type constraint, or even if I remove the `'a` parameter
<AltGr> (but I always get the module/val wrong for first-class modules also ;))
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<Anarchos> AltGr did you look the official syntax chapter in the manual ?
<Anarchos> it often gives clues on the syntax error
<Anarchos> where does dypgen install the dyplib ?
<Anarchos> when i run it , it complains about the unknown module Dyp which is installed on <standard dir of ocaml lib>/dyp/
<adrien_oww> ocamlfind list
<adrien_oww> does it show anything related to dypgen?
<Anarchos> no
<Anarchos> maybe i should install dypgen in teh standard lib/ocaml instead in lib/ocaml/dyp ?
<adrien_oww> NO!
<adrien_oww> it seems that unfortunately dypgen doesn't install through ocamlfind
<adrien_oww> considering where it's installed, you can add "-I +dyp" to the command-line
<Anarchos> ok this one works : dypgen --pv-obj --ocamlc "-I +dyp" prop.dyp
<Anarchos> but what a pain to add "-I +dyp" when it is in standard location !!
<adrien_oww> it's not
<adrien_oww> and I wouldn't call that a "pain"
<Anarchos> adrien_oww i should isntall all the .cma files into /lib/ocaml ?
<adrien_oww> 7 chars
<adrien_oww> NO
<adrien_oww> that's a good way to fuck up an install, write crap in build systems and make it unusable by others
<Anarchos> adrien_oww yes i know but i thought dypgen was able to find itself without help :)
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<adrien_oww> I prefer that it doesn't
<adrien_oww> that would hinder ocamlfind support (which it should really be doing =/ )
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<Anarchos> everybody here praises for ocamlfind, why isn't it in the official distribution ?
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<kerneis> Anarchos: because INRIA has limited resources
<kerneis> and they need less stuff to maintain, not more
<kerneis> to focus on the core and important parts
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<Anarchos> kerneis seems a good explanation
<Anarchos> i would prefer them to make an offical manual in french
<kerneis> which would double the amount of effort, and would always get out of sync
<Anarchos> as they are paid by french tax payers :)
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<Anarchos> kerneis official researchers can't publish all their work in english, and at the same time complain about the lack of interest for science by the population ! It is unfair
<kerneis> I don't hear a lot of them complain
<kerneis> I am certainly not complaining
<kerneis> the target of scientific papers is *not* the general public
<kerneis> and that's fine
<kerneis> it doesn't mean researchers need not explain what they are doing too
<kerneis> but this is a separate branch of their work
<Anarchos> well for the manual of ocaml, it would have been kind :)
<kerneis> I have been taking part in "Fête de la science" for several years for instance
<fds> Even in native English-speaking countries, the general population can't read articles published by scientific researchers!
<kerneis> no, the ocaml manual is a technical reference manual
<kerneis> you have a number of good french books about ocaml
<kerneis> some of them written (arguably a few years ago) by the very people who developped the compiler
<Anarchos> ok i stop whining :)
<Anarchos> i was a great fan of 'Le langage caml' it taught me a lot !
<kerneis> yeah, good book
<kerneis> Développement d’applications was nice too
<kerneis> even if some parts are deprecated
<Anarchos> kerneis LLC goes from a lambda calculus language to its exectution on a picoprocessor :)
<Anarchos> "LE Langage Caml" is available on internet, being out of print :)
<adrien_oww> wrote on the wrong channel
<adrien_oww> 12:02 < adrien_oww> the official distribution is a compiler
<adrien_oww> 12:03 < adrien_oww> not a library-locating tool
<adrien_oww> 12:03 < adrien_oww> camlp4, ocamlbuild, ocamldoc, ... are slowly being separated from the com
<Anarchos> and how to make ocamlfind locate my dypgen installation ?
<kerneis> Anarchos: write a META file
<adrien_oww> find /lib/ocaml -name META | grep dyp
<adrien_oww> returns anything?
<adrien_oww> f00d-time
<kerneis> then: ocamlfind install META *.{cma,cmxa,cmxs,cmo,cmi,mli}
<kerneis> or something like that
<Anarchos> kerneis just let me test
<Anarchos> "/boot/common/lib/ocaml/dyp/META"
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<Anarchos> boot/common/lib being the standard /lib dir on my platform
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<Anarchos> kerneis is it a problem ?
<def-lkb> Anarchos: nop
<Anarchos> kerneis "the META file is missing" but i ran the command in the dyp directory where there is the META file...
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<kerneis> Anarchos: I don't get it
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<kerneis> http://dypgen.free.fr/dypgen-20120619-1.tar.bz2 has Makefile with an install target using ocaml-findlib
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<kerneis> how did you install it?
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<Anarchos> kerneis make all ; make install
<Anarchos> in dypgen source folder
<Anarchos> i changed the Makefile.config folders to mimic my /boot/common prefix
<kerneis> but ocamlfind list|grep dyp shows nothing?
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<Anarchos> kerneis no
<kerneis> so, probably your ocamlfind is not configured properly wrt your prefix
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<kerneis> hmm, that's weird
<kerneis> what does "ocamlfind printconf" say?
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<kerneis> (you can paste it on pastebin.com or similar)
<Anarchos> ok
<kerneis> well, it says it all
<kerneis> you should set DYPGENLIBDIR to /boot/common/lib/ocaml/site-lib
<kerneis> in Makefile.config
<kerneis> (btw, dypgen is a bit stupid to hardcode its installation path to $(OCAMLLIBDIR) instead of just trusting ocamlfind)
<Anarchos> ok let me try
<Anarchos> now how to test if all is good ?
<kerneis> ah, no idea
<kerneis> but at least, ocamlfind will find it
<kerneis> that should (hopefully) solve your issues
<kerneis> you could try again ocamlfind list|grep dyp
<kerneis> as a first step
<Anarchos> yes :)
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<Anarchos> dypgen prop. dyp --> Unknown module Dyp
<Anarchos> :(
<kerneis> Anarchos: did you actually read the manual?
<kerneis> section 9.7
<kerneis> (page 59)
<kerneis> (so, yes, it's a pity it doesn't use findlib by itself)
<kerneis> (but at least it's documented, isn't it?)
<Anarchos> yes i read, but my parser is a very simple one
<Anarchos> so i thought i didn't have to add includes directive
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<ggole> module C = Camlp4;; => 19,887 lines of interface O_O
<ggole> What the hell
<Anarchos> one line : reference to undefined global 'camlp4' :)
<ggole> Well, load it first
<ggole> And dynlink (which camlp4 needs)
<ggole> #load "dynlink.cma";; #load "camlp4o.cma"
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<Anarchos> ggole impressive indeed :)
<Anarchos> hmmm dypgen deal with ambigous grammar and menhir allows to parametrize a parser by a module... Why can't i have both ??
<pippijn> I need to give dypgen another go
<pippijn> because I forgot why I chose to write my own GLR parser
<Anarchos> pippijn there is also elkhound/elsa
<pippijn> what about elsa?
<pippijn> and I rewrote elkhound in ocaml :)
<Anarchos> pippijn i had to modifiy its source code because it relies on the internal C structure of an Hashtbl, which changed when using the new MURMUR-3 algorithm
<pippijn> Anarchos: you had to modify dypgen?
<Anarchos> pippijn no i had to modify elkhound
<pippijn> huh
<pippijn> I don't remember that
<pippijn> in what place did it depend on that?
<Anarchos> in the ast/ folder
<pippijn> where?
<Anarchos> i can't remember but i am sure it crashes
<Anarchos> because of internal represenation of hashtbl
<pippijn> in ast?
<pippijn> because I don't think there is an astgen for ocaml
<Anarchos> i am sorry i really can't remember
<pippijn> nothing uses Hashtbl
<pippijn> I think you're mixing up memories
<Anarchos> no i am sure
<Anarchos> it doesn't uses hashtbl per se
<Anarchos> but it explores and modify values related to hashtbl
<pippijn> I don't think so
<pippijn> I rewrote elkhound in ocaml and extensively used and worked on the parser core and related code
<pippijn> and I don't remember such things at all
<pippijn> also
<pippijn> I think I'll add a "parametrise by module" thing
<Anarchos> no matter
<pippijn> that should be very easy
<Anarchos> pippijn oh you wrote dypgen ??
<pippijn> no
<pippijn> but you can use elkhound
<Anarchos> well those tools seem very difficult to understand
<Anarchos> i am not so skilled
<pippijn> I can help
<pippijn> my version of elkhound is more advanced than the C++ one
<Drup> does %apply works with more than one argument ?
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<Anarchos> pippijn i want to parse mathematical formulas, with ambiguities, and parametrized by the signature of the theory considered....
<pippijn> can I have your grammar?
<Anarchos> i haven't !!
<Anarchos> i want the user to be able to add new rules for new notations, even ambiguous
<pippijn> ah
<Anarchos> like "ab" for "a.b" and so on, really natural maths
<pippijn> right
<pippijn> then elkhound is not for you
<pippijn> because you need a grammar
<pippijn> how does dypgen do that?
<Anarchos> pippijn dypgen is able to add dynamically rules to hte parser
<pippijn> I wonder how it does that
<pippijn> that's GLR, isn't it?
<Anarchos> yes it is GLR
<pippijn> so it needs to generate parse tables
<pippijn> and then when you add rules?
<pippijn> it regenerates the tables?
<pippijn> Anarchos: how do you add rules?
<Anarchos> pippijn i need to add a specific window to my program for that
<pippijn> no
<pippijn> with dypgen
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<pippijn> Anarchos: have you tried dypgen?
<ollehar> anyone used cabal?
<Anarchos> pippijn i just begin to look at dypgen with a grammar axiom doing nothing, just to test it
<ollehar> don't know how to init the path, is something needed like "opam init env"
<ollehar> ?
<pippijn> Anarchos: how do you use it?
<Anarchos> pippijn don't miss my point : i have no idea how to implement what i want for parsing math formulas !
<Anarchos> i just give look at tools which could do it, but not sure if it is feasible at all
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<pippijn> I tried to compile an example parser, but it says Error: Unbound module Dyp
<pippijn> oh, I need to explicitly add -I
<pippijn> ok, got it
<Anarchos> the example parser is %parser main main: "" {} %end
<pippijn> I'm using the calc example
<Anarchos> ok
<Anarchos> to parse propositional formulas is not hard
<Anarchos> to parse everyday life maths is much more difficult....
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<pippijn> interesting
<pippijn> dypgen actually produces a variant for its semantic action value
<Anarchos> pippijn yes i guess this is the trick to render the parser dynamically extensible
<pippijn> uhm
<pippijn> no
<pippijn> how?
<Anarchos> new constructor `New_rule ?
<pippijn> how is that related to the semantic action value?
<Anarchos> no idea
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<pippijn> but yes, it's a requirement
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<pippijn> Anarchos: seems nice
<pippijn> I got it to work now
<pippijn> can dypgen automatically produce an AST?
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<pippijn> that's cool
<pippijn> it does indeed generate the parse tables at runtime
<pippijn> wmeyer: dypgen is interesting
<pippijn> and it seems fast, too
<pippijn> at least it doesn't have any issues with the C++ grammar
<Anarchos> pippijn could you use it on a C++ file ?
<pippijn> it's 16 times slower than my elkhound implementation
<pippijn> on this file: https://paste.xinu.at/5ajD3/
<Anarchos> 16 times slower ??
<pippijn> yes
<Anarchos> big file anyway
<pippijn> it takes 8 seconds to parse
<pippijn> while elkhound takes 0.5 seconds
<pippijn> but this: https://paste.xinu.at/p3WY/
<pippijn> this code is highly ambiguous
<pippijn> in the C++ grammar
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<pippijn> bison's glr parser chokes on it
<pippijn> dypgen has no problems
<Anarchos> pippijn is there a c++ parser in dypgen ??
<pippijn> Anarchos: I just made one
<Anarchos> oh ok
<pippijn> but it doesn't use any of dypgen's ambiguity resolution mechanisms
<pippijn> no precedence parsing
<pippijn> it would probably be much faster with that
<pippijn> much much faster
<pippijn> but I'm too lazy to do it
<Anarchos> :)
<Anarchos> why parsing c++ code with an ocaml parser, it means you can program in ocaml ;)
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<Drup> for anyone wondering, I asked if "%apply" was working with multiple arguments : it doesn't and it makes the compiler issue a Fatalerror ... \o/
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<adrien> Drup: what is the number of the bug report you've created?
<adrien> :D
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<Drup> one for now :3
<Drup> I will do this one as soon as I have what I'm doing right now working
<adrien> I meant: what is its ID so I can check it :)
<adrien> friday evening, 5:06pm
<adrien> I'm trusting you on that one :D
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<pippijn> Anarchos: the bison glr parser takes 0.6 seconds for that C++ file
<Anarchos> pippijn not too disappointing for you ?
<pippijn> and if I invert the recursion, it can parse the ambiguous thing, as well
<pippijn> bison handles right recursion very poorly
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<pippijn> ah no
<pippijn> I'm wrong
<pippijn> it still doesn't
<pippijn> but now the time went down from 0.6 to 0.3 seconds
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<Anarchos> Interesting : dypgen can use external data as global_data, so it is not like parametrizing whith a module like in menhir, but not far from it !
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<pippijn> I'm not sure bison can do this
<pippijn> it *is* ambiguous
<pippijn> and bison creates hundreds of stacks
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<pippijn> haha, this is insane
<pippijn> running ocamlc -annot on a dypgen generated parser..
<pippijn> 28MB and growing annot file
<pippijn> 34M
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<adrien> code generators...
<pippijn> the largest annot file generated from my parser generator is about 3.5MB
<pippijn> this is stupid.. it's been at it for 15 minutes
<pippijn> oh, I think I know
<pippijn> dypgen produces types with 100+ type parameters
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<Anarchos> adrien what have you against them ?
<adrien> nothing but they definitely produce crap code
<adrien> well, not mine
<adrien> but look at sexplib
<adrien> at least one year ago, its output is much bigger that it needs to be
<pippijn> dypgen doesn't produce crap code
<n06rin> i write a function in file test.ml. Can i open compiler an use some operator to import this file?
<n06rin> somethink like import in python
<Anarchos> n06rin in the toplevel you mean ?
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<n06rin> yes
<Anarchos> #use "file.ml"
<n06rin> # use "test.ml" ;;
<n06rin> Error: Unbound value use
<n06rin> i think i'm doing it wrong
<Anarchos> type "#use"
<Anarchos> the # in this case is not the propmpt !
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<n06rin> thanks at all
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<Anarchos> n06rin you're welcome :)
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<adrien> pippijn: sorry, not crap, but redundant
<pippijn> I'm not so sure about that
<pippijn> I didn't look at it in detail
<pippijn> well, I always try to minimise redundancy
<adrien> there's little incentive to factor code in the output
<pippijn> there is for large codes
<Anarchos> pippijn Remark: the block %mlitop { } and the trailer make possible to encapsulate the parser defi- nition in a functor.
<Anarchos> wow cool feature !!
<pippijn> oh
<pippijn> good :)
<pippijn> so just like ocamllex
<Anarchos> yes :)
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<watermind> So I accidentally uninstalled Core (via Opam) and now cannot install it again :(
<watermind> I get this: ocamlfind: Conflict with another package: Library dllcore_stubs.so is already installed
<Anarchos> watermind remove it :)
<watermind> more precisely this
<watermind> Anarchos: it's not there!
<watermind> I looked at ~/.opam/4.00.1/lib/stublibs/ and it is not there
<watermind> so I cannot even remove it
<watermind> full error message: http://pastebin.com/WUNcX08U
<watermind> Anarchos: is there a way to have Opam realise it is not there anymore (even though Opam should know since it was Opam that removed it)
<pippijn> oh, all the fun you get when reinventing the wheel
<watermind> ?
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<pippijn> yet another package manager
<watermind> yay done!
<watermind> pippijn: right, true
<watermind> I'm not exactly sure how I fixed this but I did
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<Anarchos> watermind no idea, i don't use opam
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<ddonna> So, I've spent the past couple hours trying to get OcaIDE to compile a project that uses lablGL. The help documentation is telling me that an External files directory will be created (it hasn't been), and I can't find an alternate route. Is OcaIDE to be considered harmful?
<ddonna> Or am I missing something charming and hilarious? (I can compile the project with no trouble using ocamlbuild.)
<companion_cube> does anyone know how to specify options for menhir with ocamlbuild?
<pippijn> companion_cube: yes
<companion_cube> I'll try... :)
<saml> Go is worse than OCaml in just about every respect, so I can’t see any reason to choose it if we wanted to do a rewrite.
<saml> lol
<pippijn> saml: rewrite of what?
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<pippijn> saml: not bad
<pippijn> and I didn't know about emily, yet
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<watermind> saml: that complain about the generic error msg seems silly, as it is generated by his generic "assert false"... or am I missing something?
<watermind> although I do agree it would be nice if the assert generated more info than that
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<jpdeplaix> gasche: is it normal that ocamlbuild builds bytecode files when executing « ocamlbuild test.native » ?
<jpdeplaix> (I'm filling a bugreport right now)
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<adrien> jpdeplaix: missing .mli?
<jpdeplaix> adrien: yes, why ?
<adrien> :)
<adrien> ocamlbuild will build .cmi files
<adrien> from .mli files it generate
<adrien> s
<adrien> for that it needs to build cmo files
<jpdeplaix> for building the .cmi files or for generates the .mli ?
<jpdeplaix> s/generates/generating/
<jpdeplaix> because for building the .cmi, there is no need for the .cmo
<adrien> don't remember well; it's a kwown issue with at least one PR on mantis
<adrien> ocamlbuild's rule does it that way
<adrien> iirc it doesn't handle having two rules to build the same file
<jpdeplaix> « it creates a race condition during parallel builds. » HAHAHA but the parallel builds doesn't work… :D
<adrien> but what if they did! :D
<jpdeplaix> :D
<jpdeplaix> wmeyer: If I remember well, you are the one who doing the parallelization work, right ?
<jpdeplaix> what is the current state of the work ?
<Drup> Is the Parallelisation work properly parallelised ? :3
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<wmeyer> jpdeplaix: yes, but haven't recently done anythin on trying to get it to work.
<wmeyer> (we are talking about ocamlbuild of course)
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