<adrien>
ygrek: seems to be down again; it was fine for me not long ago
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<ygrek>
argh
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<BitPuffin>
anyone know an open source daemon program that uses async that I can try compiling in to bytecode and see if I can run it on every platform?
gmorozec is now known as shallow
<adrien_oww>
you should be able to do a hello world async program in under 5 lines
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<adrien_oww>
(yeah, I know, but I'm not aware of any)
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<lostman>
hello! does anyone have experience installing ocaml/opam on nixos? the problem I'm facing is that the linker can't find ncurses because (as pretty much everything on nix) it lives in some weird place. how can I tell opam to look into other lib directories?
<BitPuffin>
adrien_oww: well I mean something that does something a little bit interesting :P
<BitPuffin>
maybe opens a network connection or something I dunno
<BitPuffin>
or takes messages
<avsm>
lostman: ld_library_path should do the trick as usual
<avsm>
lostman: although that ought to be set by the nix env — a lot of other stuff will break if not
<avsm>
BitPuffin: you can try cohttp, which includes an async http daemon
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<BitPuffin>
avsm: yeah that's what I was thinking maybe doing
<BitPuffin>
you mean the one in examples?
<avsm>
yes, it should be built by default if async is available
<lostman>
avsm: LD_LIBRARY_PATH is not set at all by default so comping anything is rather challenging (I just started with nix)
<BitPuffin>
yeah
<BitPuffin>
Let's figure out how to build this shit then
<lostman>
still getting 'ld: cannot find -lncurses'... with both LD_LIBRARY_PATH and CAML_LD_LIBRARY_PATH set
<adrien_oww>
(strace)
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<BitPuffin>
do I need to modify the _oasis file in order to make it bulid bytecode intsead of native code?
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<Drup>
BitPuffin: if it's on "best" in the _oasis, no you don't
<Drup>
if it's on "native", there is probably a very good reason for it
<BitPuffin>
Drup: guess I need to rtfm for oasis
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<BitPuffin>
is the ocaml interpreter written in C?
<BitPuffin>
because how am I supposed to cross compile the interpreter if not
<Drup>
ocamlrun is in C, yes
<BitPuffin>
ah okay cool
<Drup>
BitPuffin: the compiler is bootstraped, you know :)
<BitPuffin>
will compile that for every god damn mobile platform in the world then :P
<BitPuffin>
Drup: ah so that's how you bootstrap for all the different operating systems
<BitPuffin>
then it shouldn't be hard getting ocaml working on haiku etc
<Drup>
you can bother adrien, he's the cross compilation guy
* Drup
points and shames.
<BitPuffin>
:P
<BitPuffin>
although I can't mess with haiku now while at work
<BitPuffin>
haha
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<BitPuffin>
Drup: okay so it is set to be "best" how can I make it interpreted instead
<BitPuffin>
weird, I can run the .byte file like ./bla.byte but with ocamlrun bla.byte it whines about unknown C primitive
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<dsheets>
BitPuffin, "Moreover, the "custom runtime" mode
<dsheets>
enables linking OCaml code with user-defined C functions."
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<dsheets>
and "Arrange for the C shared library dlllibname.so to be loaded dynami‐
<dsheets>
cally by the run-time system ocamlrun(1) at program start-up time.
<BitPuffin>
dsheets: where are you reading this?
<dsheets>
BitPuffin, man ocamlc
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<BitPuffin>
dsheets: ahh
<BitPuffin>
well
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<BitPuffin>
that makes the bytecode non portable
<BitPuffin>
so what's the point of that? xD
<adrien>
if your bytecode uses C, you cannot be portable than the C it depends on :)
<adrien>
BitPuffin: but for your current problem, if you install the executable and its files properly on the system, it'll just work (tm)
<BitPuffin>
well it's not my bytecode
<BitPuffin>
it's cohttp :P
<BitPuffin>
but yeah I know, but C I can compile for all the various platforms, and I can't cross compile for all the platforms with ocamlc.opt
<BitPuffin>
or I mean ocamlopt.opt
<adrien_oww>
if you cross-compile the C stubs you'll be fine
<BitPuffin>
adrien: the point is, why would you use the custom runtime over compiling with ocamlopt
<adrien_oww>
what is not portable is cross to windows because the Unix module has different symbol names on win32 and unix
<BitPuffin>
Unix in Core?
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<adrien_oww>
Unix, the module from the non-standard-lib-standard-lib from the compiler
<BitPuffin>
fi_fi
<BitPuffin>
the compiler has its own standard lib? xD
<companion_cube>
kind of
<adrien_oww>
yes, used to implement the compiler and its tools
<companion_cube>
it has the "stdlib" and some other libs
<BitPuffin>
I thought that was the standardlib
<BitPuffin>
anyways
<companion_cube>
many people only use the stdlib provide with the compiler
<BitPuffin>
how can I override the custom field of an Executable in oasis?
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<BitPuffin>
companion_cube: yeah well isn't that the "stdlib" core is just one stdlib
<BitPuffin>
well I decided to just set Custom to be false in the _oasis file and I still can't run the .byte file with ocamlrun
<companion_cube>
Core is an alternative standard library, yes
<BitPuffin>
Fatal error: unknown C primitive `unix_waitpid'
<companion_cube>
but the "stdlib" usually designates the compiler's one
<BitPuffin>
yeah
<BitPuffin>
well then I don't have it wrong at least
<BitPuffin>
I thought there was like one more stdlib that wasn't in the compiler and wasn't core :P
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<companion_cube>
BitPuffin: there are 3 "standard libraries", mainly: the one that ships with the compiler, Core, and batteries-included
<BitPuffin>
yeah
<companion_cube>
also, many people have their own collection of utils
* companion_cube
coughs
<BitPuffin>
there is probably some bastard out there with his or her own proprietary stdlib
<BitPuffin>
anyways
<BitPuffin>
I need to build this in a way that isn't tied to unix
<BitPuffin>
hrm
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<BitPuffin>
or what's up with the async_extra lib
<BitPuffin>
I mean
<BitPuffin>
async_unix
<companion_cube>
core_kernel, maybe ?
<BitPuffin>
hmm?
<BitPuffin>
you mean async_kernel
<BitPuffin>
?
<companion_cube>
no idea, but yeah, _kernel are designed for use without Unix, I believe
<BitPuffin>
both core_kernel and async_kernel?
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<adrien>
14:37 BitPuffin : I need to build this in a way that isn't tied to unix
<adrien>
Unix is the module name
<adrien>
it works on Windows
<BitPuffin>
adrien: how silly
<adrien>
it's for OS-level bindings
<adrien>
historical reasons
<BitPuffin>
gotcha
<BitPuffin>
do you think it will work on the phones?
<BitPuffin>
I'd like to build it in the most portable way possible
<adrien>
should, it's not very demanding
<BitPuffin>
okay neat
<BitPuffin>
I'm still confused as to why setting Optional to false did nothing in terms of letting me run with ocamlrun though
<BitPuffin>
It needs to be built with just bytecode for me to be able to move it around
<BitPuffin>
oh hang on
<BitPuffin>
mabye I forgot to regenerate setup.ml
<BitPuffin>
not sure
<BitPuffin>
yaaay
<BitPuffin>
now both work
<BitPuffin>
sweet
<BitPuffin>
by the way, someone said that our bytecode interpreter is faster than swift, is there any benchmarks someone can link to?
<Hannibal_Smith>
Swift seems pretty difficult to beat performance wise with all the optimization on
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<adrien_oww>
looking around, it seems swift is fairly slow actually
<Hannibal_Smith>
Really depend on what compiler option do you pass
<BitPuffin>
that being said, swift has been around for like a week
<BitPuffin>
:P
<ggole>
It's slow if you leave the checking on
<ggole>
(And that will probably change given a bit of time.)
<Hannibal_Smith>
It can be competitive even with C++ with all optimization on
<adrien>
ggole: sure, given enough time...
<ggole>
Turning bounds checking off is not an optimization
<adrien>
ocaml runs with it usually
<adrien>
and you cannot turn them off locally
<adrien>
(in swift)
<Hannibal_Smith>
ggole, Swift check any arithmetic operation for overflow and underflow
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<adrien>
ouch
<Hannibal_Smith>
Yes, it can be disabled with the right compiler options
<ggole>
Anyway, we have a safe language which performs overflow and bounds checking already, with respectable performance (SML). There's no reason the safe part of the language can't perform fairly well.
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<flux>
swift also has overflowing arithmetic operations
<flux>
I could see that reducing more dangerous attacks into plain DoS attacks
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<BitPuffin>
well okidoki
<BitPuffin>
let's figure out how to build the interpreter for every mobile platform ever :P
* companion_cube
coughs
<companion_cube>
javascript ? :D
<BitPuffin>
companion_cube: well I mean building it natively
<BitPuffin>
I am worried about performance enough as it is with compiling to bytecode :P
<companion_cube>
sounds unfeasible
<adrien_oww>
well, you build several versions
<BitPuffin>
and now I should run the interpreter as js?
<BitPuffin>
you cray cray :P
<adrien_oww>
you could
<BitPuffin>
adrien_oww: Yeah I know, I just need to find the actual interpreter project thing
<adrien_oww>
it's not necessarily slower
<adrien_oww>
js_of_ocaml :P
<BitPuffin>
I beg to doubt it
<adrien_oww>
javascript is a war playground for apple and google
<BitPuffin>
plus the interpreter is written in C, so had to be emscripten
<Hannibal_Smith>
Is not iOS js restricted for anything that is not the builtin browser?
<adrien_oww>
BitPuffin: oh, sorry
<adrien_oww>
BitPuffin: js_of_ocaml takes javascript bytecode and emits javascript
<adrien_oww>
BitPuffin: view configure, scroll a bit
<ggole>
def`: I was grubbing through the guts of merlin, and I think it could be a bit more helpful when it comes to responses
<ggole>
eg, if you try to locate a keyword, it just returns not found
<BitPuffin>
adrien_oww: partialld?
<ggole>
And if you try to locate a module-qualified identifier, and .merlin does not exist, it will also just return not found. A little message would be helpful to new users.
<ggole>
What do you think about adding some cases for those?
<BitPuffin>
added -partialld "xcrun -sdk iphoneos ld -r" still getting the same error message basically
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<adrien_oww>
BitPuffin: no, partialld is only a flag
<adrien_oww>
like -r
<adrien_oww>
not -r
<adrien_oww>
actually, yeah, -r
<def`>
ggole: sure
<adrien_oww>
another one
<BitPuffin>
well the variable in the configure script is ld -r adrien_oww
<def`>
Locate has not yet been ported to the "new merlin", so it's the right time to reconsider the interface
<adrien_oww>
can't look at it right now but there's something
<BitPuffin>
on line 41
<BitPuffin>
partialld="ld -r"
<ggole>
def`: the "new merlin"? Is looking at (the ocaml part of) this one a waste of time?
<def`>
ggole: the "new merlin" can be found on ocaml-402 branch. It's a complete redesign of the parser, but the rest of the code is shared.
<ggole>
Hmm, ok
<adrien_oww>
BitPuffin: ok, try
<adrien_oww>
sh -x ./configure ...
<adrien_oww>
pastebin the same
<def`>
ggole: the protocol has also been simplified, so while not straightforward, porting code from the old one should not take much time
<ggole>
def`: well, the response code mostly just passes things through from Track_definition.from_string
<ggole>
Which is a touch hairy
<adrien_oww>
you don't really fit in the cross-compilation case though since it works by prepending $TOOLSPREF and that's not compatible with how you run the compiler
<adrien_oww>
(yes, that sucks, no I haven't had the choiceà
<adrien_oww>
)
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<BitPuffin>
adrien_oww: yeah I guess this stuff will be fixed when the cross compilation shit gets better
<BitPuffin>
adrien_oww: well what's my case?
<adrien_oww>
well
<adrien_oww>
for the sizes of ints, you need to provide input
<adrien_oww>
for the others, we'll see :P
<adrien_oww>
read from line 500 to 513 in my link
<BitPuffin>
yeah I know
<BitPuffin>
but I don't know the value of my $target
<BitPuffin>
x86_64-apple-darwin13.2.0
<BitPuffin>
that's not right
<adrien_oww>
go the dirty way
<adrien_oww>
prepend *) ... ;;
<adrien_oww>
to the list there
<BitPuffin>
haha
<adrien_oww>
and give us the values you use
<BitPuffin>
that's naughty
<adrien_oww>
I prefer to call it "efficient"
<adrien_oww>
or
<adrien_oww>
"result-driven approach"
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<BitPuffin>
yeah
<Drup>
(hack-driven engineering)
<adrien_oww>
but I'm happy
<BitPuffin>
I don't really know about set 4 4 4 2 8
<adrien_oww>
this gives me a case against TOOLPREF
<def`>
ggole: for catching keywords, just testing "Hashtbl.mem Lexer.keyword_table request" should be enough, no ?
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<ggole>
def`: yeah, that's pretty easy
<ggole>
And for the .merlin thing, I guess you'd stick some state in Global_state.project indicating whether a .merlin was found and whether it had any errors
<def`>
this is the kind of things that were cleaned up in the new merlin
<def`>
tries to expose an API wrapping all stateful things
<adrien_oww>
BitPuffin: was busy; it's better to look at that link, yeah
<adrien_oww>
BitPuffin: and in particular, "An alternative is to embed the bytecode in the C code. The -output-obj option to ocamlc is provided for this purpose. It causes the ocamlc compiler to output a C object file (.o file, .obj under Windows) containing the bytecode for the OCaml part of the program, as well as a caml_startup function."
<BitPuffin>
adrien_oww: yeah, but that makes it platform dependent right?
<adrien_oww>
hmmm
<BitPuffin>
adrien_oww: by the looks of byterun main.c it actually is as easy as I hoped for
<BitPuffin>
caml_main(argv)
<BitPuffin>
;
<adrien_oww>
but you need to point to the bytecode file
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<BitPuffin>
adrien_oww: yeah it's a string with the path to the bytecode file rigth?
<adrien_oww>
argv?
<ggole>
def`: hmm, it seems to assume than an empty .merlin and no .merlin are the same state, which would make reporting suggestions a bit tricky
<BitPuffin>
yeah
<adrien_oww>
argv is the array of the command-line arguments
<adrien_oww>
_but_
<adrien_oww>
the first one will be the bytecode file
<BitPuffin>
yeah
<adrien_oww>
so it's not impossible that caml_startup() piggybacks on that
<BitPuffin>
so I could pass it {"path/to/bytecode/file"}
<adrien_oww>
actually, second
<adrien_oww>
first is path to the current executable
<BitPuffin>
ah
<BitPuffin>
does it care?
<adrien_oww>
and caml_startup() skips it
<adrien_oww>
well
<BitPuffin>
or could I just put ""
<adrien_oww>
if it strips the first argument and you only have one...
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<adrien_oww>
and it looks like it might be a NULL-terminated array
<adrien_oww>
better check the doc on the exact format
<BitPuffin>
yeah I'll read through the whole interfacing with C part later
<def`>
ggole: no, the config.dot_merlins field list all files that contributed to the configuration
<BitPuffin>
I guess what I've accomplished today is compiling the libcamlrun.a for arm (ios)
<def`>
so, checking if the list is empty should be enough for your purpose
<BitPuffin>
which is a step forward
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<def`>
except, that there is no way to observe this at the moment in the API, it's write-only if I am not mistaken :)
<adrien_oww>
:)
<BitPuffin>
did take longer than I had hoped
<BitPuffin>
but I think now that I've done it for ios it will be faster for android and all them jazz
<BitPuffin>
Gonna try basically as much as I can
<adrien_oww>
yeah, should
<BitPuffin>
everything from ios to sailfish and ubuntu touch if possible
<def`>
never seen what sailfish looks like, is it nice ?
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<BitPuffin>
it looks nice
<BitPuffin>
I've tried it in a vm
<BitPuffin>
pretty cool
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<adrien_oww>
\o/
<adrien_oww>
to be honest I didn't expect it to work :D
<BitPuffin>
what?
<BitPuffin>
I meant tried sailfish :P
<adrien_oww>
ah :D
<BitPuffin>
unless you're talking about something else
<BitPuffin>
haha
<BitPuffin>
well I'm really scared it won't work
<adrien_oww>
I meant the bytecode stuff
<BitPuffin>
and that I'll have to abandon ocaml for this project :(
<adrien_oww>
if it works that quickly it's great
<adrien_oww>
I'm not usually very optimistic
<adrien_oww>
='(
<BitPuffin>
yeah I'm really pessimistic about this but I want it to work :)
<adrien_oww>
hehe :)
<BitPuffin>
otherwise I'll have to start working in C
<BitPuffin>
yuck
<adrien_oww>
*shivers*
<BitPuffin>
HaXe might be a possibility but I don't like that either
<whitequark>
BitPuffin: I've been thinking of using OCaml and writing the UI in whatever is the natural for the target desktop environment
<whitequark>
and then communicating them via zmq
<BitPuffin>
whitequark: that's basically what we're hopefully doing, without the zmq part
<BitPuffin>
well time to head home and play with ocaml for personal shit instead of this work shit
<BitPuffin>
I like how I am potentially wastincg days on getting ocaml working for the most stressful assignment ever haha :D
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<whitequark>
well the zmq part is what makes it easy :p
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<pyon>
Is there any difference between "let foo = object ... end" and "class foo = object ... end", other than the fact the former cannot be inherited while the latter can?
<mrvn>
pyon: the first is a value, the other not
<pyon>
ah!
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<pyon>
the second one would have to be explicity instantiated, right?
<def`>
yep
<mrvn>
let foo = object end is short for for class foo = object end let foo = new foo
<pyon>
ah makes sense :-)
<mrvn>
-for
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<ggole>
def`: ping
<def`>
ggole: pong
<ggole>
Another PR
<def`>
ping asmanur :)
<ggole>
Oh yeah, you aren't emacs flavoured :(
<asmanur>
ggole: could you work on top of the branch ocaml-402 ?
<ggole>
Yeah, is that where dev is going atm?
<ggole>
Wait, will this require ocaml 4.02?
<asmanur>
..yeah
<ggole>
Hmm. Hopefully opam will make that easy.
<def`>
ggole: if that can help you work on the emacs mode, I can try to have support for 4.01 at the end of the week
<asmanur>
the thing is, we're going to dump master at some point and although this one is ok, i'd rather not have to merge dozens of patch from master to this branch
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<ggole>
My opam doesn't list 4.02 :(
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<def`>
4.02.0+trunk
<ggole>
Hmm, is this just a matter of which repos I have set up?
<ggole>
I've opam updated, and opam --version is 1.1.1
<def`>
opam switch --all ?
<def`>
by default not all versions are printed, especially unstable ones :è)
<ggole>
Oh, I see
<ggole>
And off it goes
<weykent>
hm, trying to figure out how to use bisect with ocamlbuild
<weykent>
i'm trying to avoid writing a myocamlbuild.ml file
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<weykent>
oh! i just needed -syntax camlp4o
<ggole>
"Failure: ocamlfind not found on path, but -no-ocamlfind not used." So switch swaps out all of that stuff: I only need to opam install it? (As well as merlin's depdencies?)
<ggole>
(Sorry for the silly questions, I'm new to the operation of opam switch.)
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<def`>
ggole: what are you doing?
<ggole>
Trying to build merlin
<def`>
(merlin dependencies: yojson & ocamlfind)
<ggole>
With the shiny new 4.02
<def`>
start from a clean clone
<Anarchos>
ggole oh 4.02 is out ?
<adrien>
no
<def`>
redo configure etc
<ggole>
Hmm, ok
<Anarchos>
ggole my version is 4.03+dev0 :)
<ggole>
(./configure could well be it.)
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<Drup>
weykent: I looked at the code, I don't really have any idea of what it's supposed to do. Do you have a (documented) interface ?
<weykent>
Drup, not yet; i should write a .mli file for it
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<Drup>
indeed, you shout ;)
<Drup>
should*
<weykent>
i started writing some tests, though i'm not sure this is the best way of going about it