<_alephlambda>
Drup: Oh, thanks. I'll take a look.
<_alephlambda>
Drup: Oh hm...not quite what I was hoping for.
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<Drup>
what do you want ?
<_alephlambda>
I have to use the Ocaml bindings in Z3's current ml-ng branch.
<Drup>
yeah, my link is an overlay for that
<_alephlambda>
Drup: Did you ever try to work with Z3's Reals?
<Drup>
yes
<Drup>
I only did through my overlay, because Z3's ocaml API is crap
<Drup>
(yes, I'm talking about the ml-ng one)
<_alephlambda>
Yeaaaaah.....
<_alephlambda>
It's an evil I'm stuck with, though :(
<Drup>
_alephlambda: you're not stock, I did an overlay for it ! :)
<Drup>
stuck*
<Drup>
I mean, it's perfectly compatible with it, it's just functions on top of it, to hide the type-unsafety :)
<_alephlambda>
stuck with == my advisor has required that we use z3 directly
<Drup>
by curiosity, your advisor is ? :)
<_alephlambda>
No comment? :)
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<Drup>
well, you can still ask him if you can use it
<Drup>
anyway, what was your question about ?
<_alephlambda>
I'm using z3 as part of a larger effort to generate test cases for C program. Right now, I'm having trouble handing characters and floats. (The only thing I handle sort of well is int)
<Drup>
what issue do you have ?
<_alephlambda>
For floats, none of the generated test cases actually involve floats. Everything is an int. I realize this is very little to go on.
<Drup>
well, I don't know your code at all, so ...
<_alephlambda>
yeah, I realize
<_alephlambda>
I'll take a more thorough look at those bindings after I fix this float stuff :)
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<flux>
ocsigen examples could use some comments.. I guess one can't just right jump into making reactive single-page apps with it :)
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<flux>
man, the current tuareg indentation can really lead to some deep indentation with eliom
<flux>
which switch do I need to touch to make it not indent function application arguments on the next line so deeply? plain indentation of 2 characters is enough for me.
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<flux>
hmm, actually when I press tab a different effect happens compared to if I evaluate (tuareg-indent-command)
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<ggole>
Yeah, that can be annoying.
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<flux>
is there somewhere an example for Eliom on making reactive components on the page and then affecting them from the server?
<flux>
drup, ..it doesn't compile either :), Error: This expression should not be a function, the expected type is
<flux>
Eliom_content.Html5.D.Xml.mouse_event_handler for the incr button a_onclick argument
<flux>
do I have some special version of eliom, there was also another issue with html typing..
<Drup>
flux: the tutorial ?
<flux>
drup, yes
<Drup>
ah.
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<Armael>
yea, the first code section seems a little strange
<Armael>
s is defined server-side, named without % in the client code, …
<flux>
after removing the incr_button it still failed to type React.S.map: Error: This expression has type int React.signal -> [> Html5_types.div ] Eliom_content.Html5.D.elt React.signal but an expression was expected of type 'a Eliom_content.Html5.elt React.signal Eliom_pervasives.client_value = 'a Eliom_content.Html5.elt React.signal
<Armael>
yep
<flux>
ah, so %s was just missing
<flux>
hmm actually it wasn't originally missing, it was only missing the % but I had then accidentally just removed whole s :-)
<flux>
figured I had just accidentally entered it :-)
<flux>
)) s )}} doesn't really look like what code should look like ;-)
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<Drup>
arg, I fixed the complete code two month ago, but not this part >_>
<Drup>
flux: the complete code should be correct, let me try each little piece individually.
<flux>
hmm
<flux>
with any particular eliom version?
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<Drup>
the last one
<Drup>
try the dev manual (fix are not automatically backported, unfortunatly)
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<flux>
ok, the whole source compiles and works.. except I would imagine the gui element should move after I press 'play'?
<Drup>
whitequark: your makefile is broken
<flux>
oh, I need to provide an mp3 I think
<Drup>
flux: yes, that might help :D
<flux>
thought it was dry rehersal :)
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<flux>
now it works, nice
<flux>
hmm, maybe a non-sucking mpd front would be a worthwhile project..
<Drup>
flux: did you saw other errors ?
<Drup>
in the tutorial
<flux>
well, I only yet tried the code only
<whitequark>
Drup: yes.
<flux>
my code based on the "Basics" fragment caused some "cannot wrap functional values" error, not sure why
<whitequark>
like any other makefile in the world.
<whitequark>
all of them are broken. by design.
<whitequark>
burn make.
<whitequark>
burrrrrn
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<whitequark>
oh, did you mean it doesn't work or what
<Drup>
you have an akward fascination for burning things.
<Drup>
yes, it doesn't work.
<whitequark>
well, what can I say? such is life.
<flux>
drup, hmm, does the media player actually get reactive updates from the server?
<Drup>
flux: oh, hum not really.
<Drup>
gimme a sec
<flux>
a "collaborative" music player would be fun
<flux>
everyone could rewind/play/pause and everyone would play at the same position
<flux>
(well, disregarding the difficulty of playback synchronization)
<Drup>
flux: if you want a collaborative thingy, there is the "grafity" tutorial.
<flux>
nice2, the repo uses ocamlbuild for compiling
<Drup>
oh, I could actually improve it a bit
<whitequark>
yep, using ocamlbuild was the motivation for making that repo
<gdsfh>
man asks about opam/windows (post in russian, if anyone interested: http://meow.bnw.im/p/L1HHEB ), what can I answer him?
<whitequark>
gdsfh: opam doesn't work on windows.
<whitequark>
not yet, at least
<gdsfh>
whitequark: i know, but maybe he'll want to play with cygwin + hacks to make it work. Or maybe there are some porting initiatives now. Also I've heard of attempts to run opam/win, does anyone succeed in this?
<Drup>
merlin may support ppx, but eliom, even if it's in a ppx format, is slightly trickier.
<flux>
right
<whitequark>
Drup: as long as you conform to the ppx.context thing
<Drup>
whitequark: it's not that simple, unfortunatly
<Drup>
(because compilation to two different files, all that)
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<def`>
Drup: have a clean implementation of eliom typechecker ao we can embed it :-)
<Drup>
yeah, that's my current plan
<Drup>
def`: would a metaocaml-style patch be enough ?
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<def`>
Drup: we'll see, just try tonhave a working implemetation first
<Drup>
right, that's not gonna be trivial >_>
<jabesed>
quick somewhat offtopic question, given a monad T : C->C is there a standard name for the functor F : C -> C_T where F(X) = X and F(f) = η . f ?
<jabesed>
basically the embedding that allows you to work with pure functions f : A -> B as monadic functions f : A -> T B
<Drup>
I would call that lift, but I'm not category theorist.
<jabesed>
def`: argh they don't have a name for them :(
<jabesed>
nor a notation
<jabesed>
eh... I'll just make something up
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<jabesed>
Drup: interestingly in a denotational semantics book I have here, they kind of do the opposite... they define the lifting Functor as C_T -> C, where a morphism f in kleisli becomes η . f
<jabesed>
I want to do the opposite, establish an embedding of C in C_T
<jabesed>
anyway, I'll make something up
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<asmanur_>
jabesed: if you have f : A → B, the extension of f along the monad is often written f^\dagger : A → TB
<nojb>
jabesed: can you recall def of C_T please ?
<asmanur_>
(you should look for « Kleisli Structures » which is an equivalent axiomatisation of monads using —^\dagger)
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<def`>
asmanur_: thx :P
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<jabesed>
asmanur_: are you sure?... I call extension to the operation that takes f : A->TB into f : TA -> TB
<jabesed>
and usually denote it f*
<jabesed>
and use the dagger for coextension in comonads
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<sagotch>
any scala programmer around here?
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<hugomg>
Can anyone help me with a question about type abstraction? In my code I have two kinds of IDs that are currently just integers and I want to abstract them for extra type safety. Is http://pastebin.com/8hD5T4Aq how you would do that? I wonder if there is a less verbose way because in Haskell it would have been an one liner.
<Drup>
you can also do type foo = Foo of int, if you don't mind the small overhead
<Drup>
but yes, that's the right way to do it
<nojb>
hugomg: another possibility, depending on what you want to do, is to use type t = private int
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<hugomg>
what do you mean by "depending on what you want to do"?
<Drup>
nojb: only in the signature
<Drup>
nojb: if you declare your type directly like that, you will never be able to construct any t :]
<nicoo>
hugomg: private makes it so that t can be implicitely demoted (cast) to int
<nojb>
Drup: yes, only in the sig
<nicoo>
But there won't be any promotion (outside of the module) of ints into t
<nicoo>
(so you still need to expose of_int)
<hugomg>
is this implicit cast just a matter of efficiency of compiled code or does it allow implicit casts without Id2.to_int (breaking type safety)?
<nicoo>
hugomg: Yes, it means you don't need Id2.to_int. That's why nojb mentionned it depends on what you want to do (it is, however, perfectly type-safe)
<Drup>
you need an explicite downcast
<Drup>
x :> int
<nicoo>
Drup: Yes, not implicitely, I should have said “without using to_int”
<hugomg>
ah, interesting, Iĺl check out the private stuff in the manual then. def`: your code works but my syntax highligher doesn't like it. Is it using some new feature?
<Drup>
generative functors :3
<Drup>
4.02
<Drup>
def`: so fancy :p
<def`>
:-)
<def`>
hugomg: you can rewrite that to module New_id (P: sig end) : … = …
<def`>
and module Id1 = New_id (struct end)
<Drup>
be careful not to factor out the "struct end" .. :D
<def`>
(the important part being the inline struct end, otherwise you won't get generative behavior)
<hugomg>
ah, thanks. It being similar to type ascription kind of explains it
<rks`>
« and we will update it now » #bs
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<gasche>
def`, rks`: do you have a list of "junior jobs" for people that would be interested in contributing to merlin?
<gasche>
I think a natural question with the project is "how could I help?", and maybe writing your ideas somewhere would be helpful
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<sheijk>
ppx support! ok, that is probably not a good candidate for someone getting started.. :)
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<ggole>
Hmm, ocp-indent is a bit buggy
<ggole>
Is github the place to file an issue? Looks a bit graveyardy.
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<Drup>
yes it is
<Drup>
why is it graveyardy ?
<ggole>
Lots of open issues, no recent activity
<Drup>
AltGr was a bit busy with opam 1.2
<ggole>
(That could also indicate "stable", I suppose.)
<ggole>
Well, I'll file an issue anyway
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<def`>
gasche: no time for that at the moment. Would be nice though.
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<flux>
hmm, batteries used to have **>, didn't it? what was its implementation?
<flux>
or even type.
<flux>
or maybe not, cannot find from batteries git
<flux>
ah, let ( **> ) f x = f x
<flux>
another issue I found when compiling an old project of mine: my common.ml has include Batteries include Lwt. both define the type result. how to resolve this?
<flux>
probably Batteries didn't use to expose 'result' in its top-level module, but now does
<Drup>
flux: that's useless now, use @@
<Drup>
about the other issue .. stop including stuff, and just use open ?
<flux>
well, I open Common in the rest of my modules
<flux>
I like to put, well, common stuff there ;)
<flux>
one could say this is a way to reduce boilerplate.
<Drup>
If I may "urk".
<Drup>
stop opening Lwt anyway, it reduces code readability quite a lot
<flux>
it also defines commonly used module name aliases
<flux>
perhaps that's the way to go, and only 'let' the functions I use
<Drup>
there is the ugly solution, of course, which is to do something like "type lwt_result = Lwt.result, module MyLwt = Lwt with type result := lwt_result ;; include MyLwt
<Drup>
but please don't do that :)
<flux>
it appears I had only used three functions from Lwt, so I just picked those.
<Drup>
let me guess, >>=, >|= and return ? :D
<flux>
>>=, return and ignore_result
<flux>
you were wrong :)
<Drup>
arg!
<Drup>
2 out of 3
<flux>
only two years old project and these kind of difficulties in recompiling it ;)
<flux>
bit rot is real!
<flux>
mikmatch_pcre wouldn't install via opam with 4.02, I needed to replace its use
<Drup>
I would note that it wouldn't be an issue if you were using Lwt explicitly :3
<flux>
at least it was easy to find&install the rest of the dependencies
<flux>
drup, well, I think the duplicate type with 'include' should be a warning and it should just overwrite the symbol.
<flux>
there's very little chance the result will compile anyway if it's the wrong choice :)
<sheijk>
include is different from open and that behaviour would only make sense with the latter
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<Drup>
fortunatly, that's exactly the behavior of open :p
<flux>
but, it doesn't allow me to set a nice set of symbols I can access the same way in all modules in the project
<flux>
unless I write the same set of 'open's at the top of the file
<flux>
of course, it's not a large number of them, but it's the same and defined in a single place.
<flux>
in fact it only remains that Batterise is included in Common ;)
<flux>
(it also defines useful shortcut to the CalendarLib module, but I suppose I could just put them into c.ml)
<sheijk>
maybe it's better to just be explicit about your dependencies? readability >> saving keystrokes
<flux>
you know, it's readability when you don't have the same stuff at the top of each file
<flux>
particularly if some of them may be succinctly different
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<flux>
this way I have the compiler ensure they are the same everywhere.
<sheijk>
so it looks like all modules use the same things. which probably is not quite accurate. also makes it harder to see where symbols come from
<flux>
on the other hand, when I have the same set of names available in each module, I can move code easier from one module to another
<flux>
in particular when module aliases are involved
<sheijk>
Drup: you mentioned platforms that do not support native code in your ticket on ppx_string_interpolate. which would those be? or how would i test it will work on them?
<sheijk>
i'm seeing how this works for libraries with archive(native) vs archive(byte) but i'm not sure how byte/native versions are decided + communicated for ppx filter
<flux>
for example, I have chosen to use the name MQ for Lwt_msgqueue; it's nice that all and every module uses the same name for it.
<sheijk>
flux: uh.. now you're entering very dark territory (renaming external lib identifiers in your code) ;)
<Drup>
renaming is fine
<sheijk>
but well. do whatever you want in your own code :)
<Drup>
it's just using open everywhere and having everything in scope and not knowing there things come from, which is an issue
<Drup>
(hence my remark about opening Lwt)
<nicoo>
flux: Defining module aliases is a completely different issue from include-ing whole modules into somme Common module
<nicoo>
some*
<flux>
nicoo, how about including Batteries then?
<flux>
it's basically a bunch of submodules anyway.
<nicoo>
Batteries is a special case in the sense that you know it shadows all the modules from the stdlib
<Drup>
and tons of stuff that shouldn't be in pervasive
<nicoo>
And doesn't brings value into scope
<Drup>
actually ...
<nicoo>
s/doesn't/shouldn't/ sorry :3
<flux>
I think it does bring at least the 'result' type :-)
<Drup>
yeah, but it does, which is annoying
<flux>
I imagine it brings/oevrloads what the Pervasives module has?
<Drup>
flux: more
<Drup>
in particular, it shadows the channel types with batterie's custom ones
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<flux>
yeah, that can be super annoying when interacting with other libraries using the real channel types
<Drup>
(well, now shadow exactly, but the pervasive functions)
<Drup>
not*
<flux>
but, you can usually just use Pervasives.x and be done with it.
<flux>
too bad the standard streams suck so much :(
<Drup>
I personally use BatModules directly
<Drup>
both for that reason, and because it brings me little joy everytime I use BatMap.
<flux>
I actually do that often as well
<Drup>
:D
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<flux>
usually it starts with using BatList, because that's likely the first thing I'll be missing and I don't want to wring everything in at once ;)
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<rand000>
was just thinking.. wouldn't it be really nice if nix and opam could cooperate about dependencies, two way :o
<rand000>
nix as in nixos
<Drup>
thomasga: spring cleaning in beginning of winter ? :p
<rand000>
deployment of an ocaml-sourced cloud in a pure and declarative way..
<thomasga>
yes, all these issues were painful to for my poor eyes
<Drup>
rand000: mirage :]
<rand000>
Drup: yes I was thinking about that.. but a unikernel is though quite different from a full os - there might be some usecases for the nixos+ocaml way?