ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<SuperNoeMan> Drup: the ocaml RPC service fits into a larger set of mechanisms and languages, and piqi is what we use to serialize. I want to be able to use my own serialization method!
<Drup> then call it yourself ?
<Drup> if you want to do it yourself, do it yourself :)
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<Drup> (I'm not really sure to understand what you want from eliom on the RPC point of view if you want to handle everything by yourself, though)
<SuperNoeMan> well just the serialization method. I talked to the piqi author about providing some RPC capability with ocaml
<SuperNoeMan> but the problem is, I don't think I did a good job with my rpc mechanism. I use an arbitrary number to map to a method
<Drup> first, you still didn't really told me, who provides the function and who is supposed to call it
<SuperNoeMan> I'd like it to be an interface that other languages could call, and the generated interface could automatically select some unique identifier. I think that would be much better
<SuperNoeMan> Well, ocaml provides the function. Other languages call it. Java, C, python
<SuperNoeMan> possibly ocaml on another machine
<Drup> ok, so no, eliom is not going to help you.
<Drup> it can helps you for the whole routing stuff
<Drup> you want some rest-based thing or .. ?
<SuperNoeMan> Drup: well I use piqi/protocol buffers for argument serialization
<SuperNoeMan> so, REST isn't really what I need
<SuperNoeMan> just a way to get arguments across the wrie
<SuperNoeMan> wire*
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<Drup> eliom is designed to make websites or rest-like services, it's not a distributed computing library, sorry. :)
<SuperNoeMan> oh ok
<SuperNoeMan> Thanks for the help then :)
<Drup> you can probably hack something together, but it's hacky and something else would probably do a better job
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<Drup> (functory maybe ?)
<Drup> (still not ideal)
<Drup> eliom provides you a way to do rpc from client (javascript compiled with js_of_ocaml) to server (ocsigen-powered ocaml) but that's all.
<Drup> (I think you are the first one I saw that overestimate the set of feature that ocsigen is covering, it's usually the other way around ... :D)
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<crocket> Is mirage os useable?
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<nicoo> It is used for the Mirage OS website
<nicoo> (And yes, it is useable)
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<crocket> nicoo, It sure is not useable on desktops.
<crocket> It can only be used on Xen.
<crocket> I'm dissapointed.
<crocket> I wanted a desktop OS written in a functional language.
<nicoo> Ah. Mirage OS isn't meant as a general-purpose OS
<nicoo> It is for running a single application directly on Xen (or on bare metal, or on Unix using a pure OCaml network stack, or ...)
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<crocket> nicoo, Does it provide virtualization?
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<nicoo> crocket: No. Xen provides virtualisation
<nicoo> Did you read the intro on http://openmirage.org/ ?
<crocket> nicoo, I read overview, but it was confusing to me.
<nicoo> Basically, Mirage is a set of libraries that provide things usually handles by the OS (filesystem, network, ...) on top of Xen (or on bare metal, or on top of a Unix OS) ; this is useful if you have a single OCaml program that you want to run directly as a Xen VM or on embedded systems, for instance.
<nicoo> Mirage doesn't provide multi-processing, so it is (probably) not suitable to build a general-purpose operating system.
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<crocket> Does OCaml provide parallelism?
<adrien> no
<crocket> No
<crocket> That's bad
<crocket> Does OCaml provide concurrency?
<adrien> no
<crocket> Whut
<ggole> There's libraries for concurrency, like lwt and async
<crocket> no library for threads?
<crocket> I mean OS threads
<ggole> But they don't run in parallel
<nicoo> There are libraries for multiprocessing (and even distributed processing) though
<adrien> considering how little they provide, it's almost as if ocaml didn't provide concurrency
<crocket> Is OCaml a good choice for web browser apps?
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<ggole> There are libraries and tools (like js_of_ocaml) aimed at that, but I've never used any of them.
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<MercurialAlchemi> crocket: there is a multicore runtime in the works, with an ETA of "when it's done"
<MercurialAlchemi> (personally, I'd rather get implicits than multicore if I had to choose between the two)
<crocket> implicit?
<MercurialAlchemi> crocket: http://www.lpw25.net/ml2014.pdf
<MercurialAlchemi> sorta typeclasses
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<natrium1970> I *thought* that somehow I managed to get this to work late last night, at least in utop, but maybe it was my imagination. Any suggestions on how to write this in a legal way? http://pastebin.com/yqY7d1g2
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<natrium1970> Right now, I think it makes sense to move `SymbolicConst outside of numeric. But I’m wondering what would happen in a situation there I wanted a construction like this to work.
<natrium1970> In case anyone is wonderful why I would want use polymorphic variants in this way: I want `Var of string to be a variant of expr, but I also want to be able to write a function that *only* accepts `Var of string and gives a compile-time error for the more general type “expr”.
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<adrien> so... about crocket
<adrien> you won't get out of a conversation with him any happier
<adrien> quite likely the opposite
<adrien> don't waste time nor energy with him
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<ggole> PM drama?
<adrien> no
<adrien> I just avoid him and I'm happy he left that quickly
<ggole> So there's some history to explain the brusque response you gave.
<adrien> definitely
<adrien> basically he's been on ##slackware for quite some time and
<adrien> slackware has that reputation of being an "elite" distribution (or some shit like that); more difficult, less user-friendly, more diy
<adrien> but he stuck around for maybe a couple years at least, never ever learning
<adrien> always doing the stupidest things
<ggole> Mmm.
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<ggole> OK, I don't need the details :)
<adrien> http://noobfarm.org/?id=1991 (that one was at least several months after he started on ##slackware ; mesa is in the main repository and that shouldn't surprise anyone)
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<adrien> can I answer "Abandon Windows XP" on the mailing-list?
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<kakadu> I prefer "abondon Windows"
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<adrien> heh
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<kakadu> Also the guy should abandon Avast whichcan block internet access in browser, if license is not prolonged
<adrien> oh, nice
<adrien> reminds me that I've seen AV software strip bits of files from the ocaml distribution
<adrien> suprisingly they consider toolchains, packing, encryption software, bytecode, interpreters as possible malware
<kakadu> I remember this but it was about some another antivirus
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<reynir> I often find caml-list mails in my spam folder on gmail. :/
<adrien> yeah, gmail...
<MercurialAlchemi> reynir: you need to tell gmail not to mark it as spam
<MercurialAlchemi> but that's hardly unique to caml-list, it's a general issue with gmail and mailing lists
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<adrien> and everything that doesn't come from gmail actually
<adrien> turned email into a walled garden
<companion_cube> -_-
<reynir> I'm on other mailinglists with more traffic and they usually dont end up in spam
<reynir> Ah yea one of them is a google mailinglist hehe
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<MercurialAlchemi> I've seen stuff from other mailing list in spam
<MercurialAlchemi> relatively regularly
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<whitequark> ugh, antivirii
* Drup snorts every time he sees latin plural in english.
<whitequark> the problem with that is?
<Drup> I find it ridiculous :)
<whitequark> I find antivirii ridiculous. it's snake oil. they don't work
<Drup> that too
<adrien> anyone knows how to merge several git submodules?
<adrien> like splitting wasn't a good idea in the first place
<Drup> whitequark: I have the same feeling when someone use a greek word when there is a correct english equivalent. :p
<whitequark> companion_cube: hmm, so ppx_deriving_yojson is on par with manually written code?
<whitequark> that's nice
<adrien> what's english if not the merge of latin (and therefore some greek) and saxon
<adrien> ?
<Drup> latin is has related to greek as swedish is to german.
<Drup> as*
<ggole> Antivirus programs are a great way to fuck up other software.
<ggole> They particularly like crashing email clients.
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<Drup> and english is related to latin by vocabulary (french really, in fact). Not at all by grammar
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<companion_cube> whitequark: yes
<companion_cube> with code I wrote straightforwardly, that is
<companion_cube> it's pretty good anyway
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<companion_cube> (btw whitequark thanks a lot for your help those past days)
<Drup> whitequark: btw, why did you used yojson, and not jsonm ?
<companion_cube> I think it's because Yojson provides integers
<companion_cube> Drup: you can use cconv with jsonm, I suppose ;)
<whitequark> Drup: because yojson is batch, and jsonm is streaming
<Drup> just asking, I'm curious
<companion_cube> Jsonm.token Sequence.t CConv.Encoder.encoder
<companion_cube> \o/
<Drup> I don't have a use case.
<whitequark> I tried to wrap my mind around streaming and it was hard and boring, so I gave up
<adrien> "integrating a submodule into the parent repository"
<companion_cube> there's ezjsonm or something like this, for jsonm, too
<companion_cube> whitequark: streaming is nice in combination with Lwt, though
<Drup> companion_cube: ezjsonm is sort of pointless for a generator ...
<companion_cube> it does provide a JSON ast type
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<Drup> companion_cube: I'm slightly surprised by the overhead, I expected less
<companion_cube> it's because of the intermediate GADT
<companion_cube> the overhead is lower now (with a slightly different interface)
<companion_cube> but look at the code I'm comparing with, you can hardly beat it
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<pgas> xb
<companion_cube> Drup: also I should try to compare the overhead to the serialization time
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* nicoo throws some lemmata at Drup :þ
<Drup> :<
<Drup> nicoo: throws back a prolegomena at nicoo.
<nicoo> \o/
* nicoo is happy :)
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<reynir> the plural of virus is vira btw
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<Drup> <3
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<ousado> reynir: it's not that easy, apparently
<reynir> "yea" as in "you're right"
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<thomasga> Drup: he, I'm using ezjsonm for generating JSON :p
<thomasga> (but I agree, it's kind of crap library)
<thomasga> Jsonm + cconv looks much more useful (I'm very tempted to switch)
<companion_cube> I didn't try to encode into Jsonm with it, sounds like an interesting challenge
<companion_cube> depends on whether you have an intermediate AST to represent JSON values
<Drup> thomasga: No, I meant something different
<Drup> thomasga: from a *code generator* point of view
<Drup> it's a bit weird to use an overlay designed to make the code simpler at the cost of efficiency.
<thomasga> well, there are basic functions which can be used by a generator
<thomasga> ha yes
<thomasga> that's right
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<companion_cube> hmm, so, how is assemblage going? :>
<thomasga> looking for people with time to work on it :p
<companion_cube> erf
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<Drup> thomasga: is the bunzli reform done ?
<thomasga> yup
<Drup> Oh.
<Drup> So the API shouldn't be completely rewritten now ?
<thomasga> the API reform is (almost) done, but the new Makefile driver doesn't work yet
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<Drup> Ok
<thomasga> and then the various sub-modules
<thomasga> and then cry ;p
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<Drup> I need a tutorial
<thomasga> yea …
<thomasga> don't you think http://samoht.github.io/assemblage/Assemblage.html#basics clear enough? :-)
<Drup> I wrote if *after* seeing that.
<Drup> the "Don't" is very weird too
<companion_cube> double negation ftw
<Drup> thomasga: do you have examples ?
<Drup> thomasga: and how does it work if the makefile driver is broken ? ^^
<thomasga> you can still describe your project
<thomasga> `assemblage describe`
<thomasga> (even if you cannot built it again)
<thomasga> so the new version does not work yet but at least we have a nicer API
<Drup> :D
<Drup> I should give this argument the next time I introduce a bug after breaking the API.
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<Drup> thomasga: I'll try to play with it when it works ;)
<thomasga> sure! I don't expect (and want) people to use Assemblage immediately. But if people are interested to help, they are welcome now that the API is stabilised
<avsm> Drup: no better way to learn it than contributing a Makefile backend :)
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<Drup> I tend to work by experimenting, if I can't experiment, there is no point. And I can't experiment if you don't have a functioning backend.
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<Drup> I'm fine with something in beta, but it has to at least do something ;)
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<thomasga> well, assemblage is still in alpha :-) we experimented with a first API + driver in the first versions, now we have a better idea of the API and daniel implemented it. the new driver is coming, just need to find some time to do it.
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<thomasga> but you have a fair point :-)
<Drup> (also, if I may, I wouldn't personally consider an API stable if the main purpose of the API is not implemented, because I don't have yet a proof that the API map correctly just yet. I have hope, but that's not enough :D)
<Drup> anyway, as I said, ping me when you have a backend, I'll happily play with it, I have an eliom-distilery to reimplement :3
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<whitequark> can someone please explain politely why = with a pattern at rhs is a bad idea
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<flux> I rather like the 'as', it could even with with a 'when' guard clause
<flux> ..though I don't quite see the opposition with for 'let' based matching in an expression ;-)
<flux> it's the = that's the problem?
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<flux> isn't that 'let p = e' part of the proposed 'if' exactly the same kind of 'let' as lets usually are, except that instead of raising an exception it goes to the else clause, or otherwise goes to the then clause?
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<mfp> whitequark: maybe that it's too close to the currently parsable if let b = true in b then print_endline "hah" ?
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<flux> btw, could this be implemented with ppx? if%let?
<whitequark> if [%let?]
<flux> maybe quite not as convenient.
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