ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Hannibal_Smith> companion_cube, I think that is reasonable point of view
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<mcc> okay so
<mcc> utop # 3.0 == 3.0;;
<mcc> - : bool = false
<mcc> ... ... ... can anyone explain this or what to do with it? D:
<mcc> is there some secret ==. method somewhere i can't find?
<kakadu> physical equality vs. structural equality
<mcc> okay
<mcc> which is ==, and why would EITHER differ in this case?
<kakadu> physical is like pointer comparison in C++
<kakadu> structural is when you what to check that all fields are equal
<mcc> ok. it seems like two 3.0 literals should be both bytewise identical and also "semantically" identical (same as structurally identical...?)
<mcc> are floats unequal in the structural comparison by definition or something?
<kakadu> I thinks that integers are not equal too
<kakadu> not, they are equal
<kakadu> probably because memory representation
<mcc> don't understand. if i say 3 == 3 that evaluates true
<kakadu> In OCaml internal representation integer is a value, Float is a pointer
<kakadu> so when you write 1==1 you compare integers
<mcc> oh
<mcc> …oh D:
<kakadu> It seems you got it
<mcc> how do i make it… not… do that
<mcc> or how do i request a dereferenced value compare
<kakadu> 1. = 1.
<kakadu> You probably used to write in C/C++/Java a lot
<mcc> i… i just want to compare two floats
<mcc> how do i do that
<mcc> ...oh
<mcc> *slaps forehead* okay. i see.
<mcc> thanks very much.
<mcc> sorry, my brain was somehow conflating = and == into one operator
<kakadu> Well. I think t compare flaots we need something like (a-.b) < 1e-6
<mcc> yes. well, i'm in a situation where i'm sticking to integers.
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<mcc> kakadu: hey just wanted to say that fixed my problem. i had a huge bug and it was a one-letter typo. thanks again * _ *
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<Leonidas> whitequark: can you point me to the direction on how to implement ~path arguments for ty_of_yojson methods in ppx_deriving_yojson?
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<Leonidas> I see ppx_deriving has Ppx_deriving.path_of_type_decl, which looks like exactly what I am looking for
<whitequark> path_of_type_decl returns a path like Foo.A.B for a type located inside these modules
<whitequark> you need to just add an optional argument to the generated functions
<Leonidas> I don't quite understand where these get generated
<Leonidas> (also, what does 'desu' stand for?)
<whitequark> deserializer
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<whitequark> look for `Suffix "of_yojson" or `Suffix "to_yojson"
<def`> desu ka?
<whitequark> you'll find the signature and structure parts
<whitequark> def`: yes, exactly
<Leonidas> def`: exactly, especially considering whitequark's llvm.moe I wasn't sure about its meaning %)
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<def`> :)
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<arjunguha> I'm writing a shell script with OCaml. Is there a way to get ocaml (or utop) to print values when running non-interactively?
<mrvn> no, print them yourself
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<arjunguha> darn. ok thanks
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<Leonidas> printing in ocaml kinda sucks. ppx_deriving Show ftw.
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<mrvn> What's the syntax for open types again?
<nojb> type t = …
<nojb> type t = ..
<nojb> two dots
<flux> and type t += A of int
<mrvn> # type t = ..;;
<mrvn> Error: Syntax error
<mrvn> time to update ocaml
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<mrvn> 2 questions about GADTs: http://paste.debian.net/138726/ Can I avoid listing all variants on the (opt_)value_of_pair functions? Can I make key/pair independent of the witness/value type?
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<Drup> having an "assert false" in a thing using gadt is the sign that you are doing it really wrong.
<Drup> first question: No
<Drup> I don't understand the second question, I feel like you already did that.
<mrvn> Drup: I wan't an: type 'a key = Key : 'b 'a -> 'a key
<Drup> ah, you want hkt, then no.
<mrvn> seems to need a functor
<Drup> not directly at least
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<mrvn> If I only need one kind of key/pair I can do: type _ witness = .. type _ value = .. type key = Key : 'a witness -> key type pair = Pair : 'a witness * 'a value -> pair and then later add the variants.
<mrvn> Which leaves me with the problem of value_of_pair
<ggole> You want a GADT alist?
<ggole> Usually you would use an equality witness
<mrvn> I need an universal list
<Drup> what you are doing is unnecesseray for a universal list
<ggole> Then you would probably use Univ
<ggole> (Or open types, in a recent version.)
<mrvn> Drup: tell me more
<Drup> what ggole said
<Drup> also depends of what you want to do with your universal list
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<ggole> That's the one
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<mrvn> ggole: too bad it only gives the signature. Is Univ part ot core?
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<ggole> Can't remember: it isn't hard to implement though
<mrvn> ggole: Hard enough that I got it wrong aparently.
<ggole> ...hmm, the univ I have sitting around doesn't use that signature
<ggole> Oh, and this is how I'd do that GADT alist thing https://gist.github.com/b8e124312543bfcd7186
<ggole> (I had that one sitting around too, after doing that hash table exercise.)
<mrvn> ggole: Your Univ isn't typesafe enough for me I think. It's too universal.
<mrvn> but I could hide that via .mli file
<ggole> It's typesafe?
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<ggole> Or do you want to get rid of the option?
<mrvn> ggole: No. I want a list that can only store witness / value pairs.
<ggole> Something more like the GADT alist, then?
<ggole> (But presumably with a different signature.)
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<mrvn> Maybe I should start fresh and explain what I want overall. I'm writing a generic RL(k) parser. The parser takes a grammar as input. The grammar has a list of terminals, list of non-terminals, list of rules and a start symbol.
<mrvn> A rule is a has a non-terminal as left hand side and a "list" of terminals/non-terminals as right hand side.
<mrvn> The question is how to store the rules.
<mrvn> Rules also have an attribution, a function taking one argument per right hand side symbol returning a new attribute.
<mrvn> The right hand side and attribution types need to match in some way for type safety.
<ggole> That does sound like a candidate for GADTs, but I don't ask me what the details would be...
<mrvn> ggole: That's what I though. But I have a lot of terminals and non-terminals and listing every one of them in a match seems painfull.
<mrvn> ggole: I would love a non-magic version of this: http://paste.debian.net/138728/
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<artagnon> whitequark: A simple patch coming your way.
<artagnon> Give me a test plan, and I'll be happy to write some tests.
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<mrvn> ggole: For your GADT alist (https://gist.github.com/gsg/b8e124312543bfcd7186) how do you implement EqAssoc?
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<ggole> Like equality, but return None instead of false and Some Refl instead of true.
<mrvn> ggole: http://paste.debian.net/138739/ Just like equal does not work
<ggole> Yeah, you need the GADT type stuff
<ggole> It's annoyingly fiddly :/
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<mrvn> ggole: let cast : type a b . (a, b) Eq.t -> a T.value -> b T.value = fun Eq.Refl x -> x
<mrvn> ggole: how come that doesn't say a == b or that the fun is missing types or something?
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<ggole> It's just a type level operation, really
<mrvn> But (a, b) Eq.t maps to
<mrvn> Eq.Refl, which is ('a, 'a) t.
<ggole> You might read it as "given a proof that a and b are the same type, and an a t, you can have a b t".
<mrvn> So why doesn't it infer a = 'a = b
<mrvn> ?
<ggole> Because the inference doesn't do that :)
<ggole> There could be a type system that supports such usage, but OCaml's is not one of those.
<mrvn> if it would then the rest of the code would give type errors
<mrvn> Has someone written an ppx module for type equality of a GADT type? Seems like something that should be automated.
<ggole> It's mostly a question of which type you output, I think
<ggole> Eq isn't a standard thing.
<mrvn> Full example of the GADT AList: https://gist.github.com/mrvn/808b9555b94c1a81bfc2 Did I use that right?
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<mrvn> ggole: match (gadt1, gadt2) with (V1, V1) -> ... | (V2, V2) -> ... | (V3, V3) -> ... seems to happen a lot with GADTs.
<ggole> Looks OK.
<ggole> Yes, it does.
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<ggole> GADTs lead to duplication in matches, unfortunately.
<ggole> Or patterns basically stop working.
<mrvn> ggole: You work around that with the T.equal. I think that would work quite often. And writing the T.equal should be easy for ppx.
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<ggole> Yes, equal isn't much of a problem. The same issue crops up for other matches on GADT types though.
<mrvn> If I have different code for each match case then I don't mind. But if all cases have the same type then it gets anoying.
<mrvn> s/same type/same code/
<ggole> Yes, that happens a lot.
<mrvn> Would be cool if one could write: match (g1, g2) with (V1, V1) | (V2, V2) -> ....
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<ggole> Yeah. It would make programming with GADTs considerably nicer.
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<ggole> This is an example of how annoying it can get. Search for "the duplication". https://gist.github.com/gsg/e2cb283a4240bf760479
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<adrien> Drup: re-mldonkey and BT, yes, lots of clients doing BT, like transmission, which fails at handling limits on the number of file descriptors
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<mrvn> adrien: rtorrent handles it
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<mrvn> mldonkey should use librtorrent
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<flux> rtorrent was the torrent program that dosen't support ipv6 because ipv4 was too deeply hardcoded in?
<flux> in any case, isn't almost 90% of the point of mldonkey to have the torrent code in OCaml :)
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<mrvn> No, it's the nice gui
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<Drup> I was convinced it was the elegant code.
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<flux> may your jokes be better next year :P
<Drup> Never ! :d
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<struktured> hmm bit torrent api in ocaml...for some reason that that is alluring
<flux> simply extract the api from mldonkey
<flux> ..I tried that once, gave up
<flux> but nowadays there appears to be actually a separate bittorrent module (bt) in addition to b-encoding library (bencode)
* struktured starts thinking of strange ways he could use the bit torrent protocol
<nojb> FYI, I wrote the `bt` library , which is functional (can download torrents), but I would classify it more as a proof of concept than anything serious … It is in need of refactoring and could be improved, but there needs to be a reason to do so :)
<struktured> nojb: cool, thanks for the heads up. if I come up with something worth doing w/torrents I will consider it
<flux> nojb, seems well structured though. good job :). perhaps a few comments in the interface would serve well..
<nojb> flux: sure, would really appreciate any and all comments (esp. interface ones) !
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<adrien> mrvn: I'm sure we can find issues in rtorrent too :)
<adrien> mldonkey's code is awful but it works well and is ocaml and therefore comes with several benefits
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<nullcat> how to you pronounce 'Lwt'? just say 'L' 'W' and 'T'? Is it French...?
<struktured> nullcat: I hear from people as "lute"
<nullcat> cool...