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<struk|dtut>
companion_cube: re: containers release, friday is fine w/me. Aiming to release something which depends on it but I need a few days myself anyhow.
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pyon is now known as automorphism
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<ygrek>
hm, does camlp4 understand ppx attributes?
automorphism is now known as pyon
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<companion_cube>
whitequark, struktured, Drup: would you like containers to be distributed as several smaller packages on opam?
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<gasche>
whitequark (et al.): an interesting LWN article (think of subscribing!) about the PostgreSQL project's difficulty to find time to review patches
<gasche>
(no magical solution immediately applicable to OCaml; the discussion sounds related bu the situations are fairly different)
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<companion_cube>
awww, I think I checked the box "secure session" on mantis
<adrien>
hihihi
<companion_cube>
I know github is evil, but it feels so much more convenient... :(
<companion_cube>
anyway, hcarty: on Buffer.add_channel, Damien's proposal can solve your issue about "identifying the bytes making up the partial request": compare the length of the buffer before and after the read
<adrien>
wait
<adrien>
you ticked a box which said "annoy me for no actual security improvement"
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<companion_cube>
I think it was checked by default
<companion_cube>
or I must have got distracted -_-
<xavierm02>
Hi. Is it possible to get a module type from a mli file? Thank you in advance for your answers.
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<companion_cube>
module type of MyModuleName
<companion_cube>
I gues
<companion_cube>
s
<xavierm02>
it works. Thanks :)
<companion_cube>
it's not exactly "from a mli file", it's a mechanism to extract its type from a module
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<xavierm02>
but since I have no .ml associated with that module, it's the same thing :)
<mrvn>
Probably looks at the cmi file
<companion_cube>
yay, I got ctypes' Dl module working
<joncfoo>
companion_cube: is Gen.take_while supposed to eat up the invariant item?
<companion_cube>
joncfoo: it's not designed to let you use the generator afterwards
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<joncfoo>
oh I see
<companion_cube>
and with the definition of 'a gen, you can't really "push" the last elemebnt back
<companion_cube>
there' drop_while if you want the remainder
<companion_cube>
but there's currently no way to have both
<joncfoo>
that's unfortunate =\
<joncfoo>
ah well, thanks!
<companion_cube>
sorry about this
<companion_cube>
do you really need both?
<joncfoo>
no it's not necessary
<xavierm02>
I have a .ml file and the corresponding .mli file should only contain an include. Is there some way to avoid creating that .mli without having to wrap the module in the .ml in a struct?
<joncfoo>
I was porting some code that used BatEnum to use Gen - it doesn't have to be the same code :P
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<companion_cube>
joncfoo: interesting, what were you using in BatEnum?
<Simn>
Wow, I didn't know there was that much to say about parsers. But then I only really used RD parsers.
<joncfoo>
thanks, I'll have to grab a copy
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<sdegutis_>
What do you think of Rust?
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<MercurialAlchemi>
that's a fairly general question...
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<sdegutis_>
Well I'm interested in either learning OCaml or Rust, and I'm having a hard time picking. Seems they're both geared towards the same tasks.
<MercurialAlchemi>
not really
<sdegutis_>
How so?
<MercurialAlchemi>
Rust is more imperative per design
<MercurialAlchemi>
more importantly, it's geared toward memory safety
<MercurialAlchemi>
which means that you need to think about who owns what
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<sdegutis_>
Whereas in OCaml you don't need to think, you just write code?
<MercurialAlchemi>
and it's intended to be a remplacement for C++, while OCaml harbours no such ambition
<MercurialAlchemi>
sure, you need to think but not about that, you have a garbage collector
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<MercurialAlchemi>
you can alias to your heart's content
<sdegutis_>
Oh.
<sdegutis_>
So far Rust sounds more fun.
<MercurialAlchemi>
they're both interesting languages, but don't really cover the same area
<Unhammer>
not having a GC is apparantly important where you cannot afford having a sudden collection which makes you have to wait (so don't write your pacemaker in a GC'ed language I guess)
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<MercurialAlchemi>
yes
<sdegutis_>
In what areas is OCaml better than Rust?
<MercurialAlchemi>
depends on how functional you want your language
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<MercurialAlchemi>
and if you prefer to fight the borrow checker or type inference errors :)
<sdegutis_>
I'm okay with only using map/reduce/etc sometimes and relying on imperative stuff the rest of the time.
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<MercurialAlchemi>
it has some neat projects like js_of_ocaml
<MercurialAlchemi>
a kickass module system
<MercurialAlchemi>
several standard libraries
<MercurialAlchemi>
hm, wait, this isn't a feature
<Unhammer>
merlin
<Unhammer>
notafeature either …
<MercurialAlchemi>
eh, Merlin is a feature :)
<ggole>
"Raised by primitive operation at unknown location"
<MercurialAlchemi>
it's more compact than Rust, too
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<companion_cube>
yay containers.bigarray!
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<MercurialAlchemi>
ggole: at least that's clear, you just need to avoid all known locations
<def`>
high level programming (higher order if you prefer)
<MercurialAlchemi>
more aristocratic
<MercurialAlchemi>
:D
<def`>
:D
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<ggole>
Bug found - using, of course, printf.
<MercurialAlchemi>
welcome to OCaml's state-of-the-art debugging facilities
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<Anarchos>
MercurialAlchemi well ocamldebug is not so bad !
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<Darnuria>
MercurialAlchemi: In fact Ocaml is not better than Rust they do not have the same goal.
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<Darnuria>
MercurialAlchemi: Rust is (normaly) made for system programming(where you need to do insane thing with memory and critical perf. For everything else Ocaml is great. :)
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<def`>
I disagree that system programming is about critical perf (ok system programming is a term as clear as the 'better' relation between PL)
<flux>
ocamldebug is not bad?!
<Darnuria>
mybad this is exactly what you said...16:14:08 MercurialAlchemi | and it's intended to be a remplacement for C++, while OCaml harbours no such ambition
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<flux>
what is a worse debugger than ocamldebug..
<Darnuria>
flux: printf?
<flux>
nope, printf beats ocamldebug
<flux>
it can print values of arbitrary expressions
<def`>
No printf is usually reliable :)
<Darnuria>
I prefers assert + printf.
<Darnuria>
:D
<flux>
at times I try out ocamldebug thinking "it's not that bad" and then I realize that actually printf debugging is teh shit
<Darnuria>
It's impossible to do something like in ghci with a toplvl?
<def`>
Darnuria: what in ghci are you referring to?
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<Darnuria>
(search a link in my bookmark)
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Darnuria: hm, I think you're missing some context
<Darnuria>
Simn: Yep. with GHC you have thing like inccorect indentation :D
<ggole>
printf isn't a great debugger, but it is a very reliable one
<MercurialAlchemi>
yes
<MercurialAlchemi>
and it's low complexity
<ggole>
Optimizer won't remove it, don't need symbols, works in pretty much any language on any system
<Darnuria>
mhhh. There is no problem due to stream buffering with printf?
<Darnuria>
Like in C?
<MercurialAlchemi>
but it's when you need to understand why a deeply-nested dependency doesn't work the way it should that things go wrong
<Darnuria>
(printing on stderr solve that I thing)
<ggole>
You can get buffering issues if there are crashes, but not exceptions (I think)
<ggole>
And it's easy to flush
<ggole>
printf "%d%!\n" foo
<flux>
mercurialalchemi, "there is no problem in the cs that cannot be solved by adding more printfs", or how was it..
<flux>
mercurialalchemi, but the next step from plain printfs is structured logging :-)
<flux>
I haven't actually done this, but I saw the idea of writing out debug messages as SQL insert statements
<flux>
then you get to feed them to the database and perform queries
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<flux>
I have, though, made use of multi-buffer tracing, saving said traces with the core dump (ie. in a global variable) and used gdb-python for linearizing&prettifying said traces. was pretty nice. upon crash, x last events for all y categories was available.
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<MercurialAlchemi>
flux: I'd be more in favor of plain text+separate index
<MercurialAlchemi>
in case somebody unplugs the production server while chasing the cat
<MercurialAlchemi>
at least the plaintext won't be borked beyond repair
<flux>
well, in this case doing system calls for each tracing would have been quite expensive
<flux>
and there was also a system in place to ship coredumps to a central server for analysis
<MercurialAlchemi>
right
<MercurialAlchemi>
if you don't log too agressively, logging in a separate thread could be an idea
<MercurialAlchemi>
but there is a difference between "I want a production log" and "I want to do forensics on my crashed server"
<flux>
it was also nice that you could for example trace allocations and releases of certain objects and store the pointers to the trace
<flux>
so when you get back to it, you can just use gdb to find more information about what's behind the pointer
<flux>
if it has not yet been deallocated
<flux>
and in some cases even if it has been
<MercurialAlchemi>
how easy is it to get gdb to print somethign useful about an OCaml variable?
<ggole>
It'd be nice to be able to log allocations
<flux>
well, probably not that bad, though that project was c
<MercurialAlchemi>
ah
<flux>
gdb-python is quite capable for doing that kind of work, though it can be slow
<ggole>
(In OCaml, I mean.)
<MercurialAlchemi>
I think Haskell has a way of doing that
<MercurialAlchemi>
don't know if there any (good?) OCaml profiling options
<flux>
I think ocaml debugging could benefit from some kind of runtime type information, even if it were only for debugging
<flux>
was it even so that ocamldebug is not able to see through abstract types?
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<ggole>
Yeah
<ggole>
Even the toplevel is weak at that
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<flux>
if it were for debugging only, it could be even inefficient
<flux>
actually, it should be! to discourage people from misusing it.. ;-)
<MercurialAlchemi>
no need
<MercurialAlchemi>
just make the program crash randomly if the I_REALLY_NEED_TO_DEBUG_THIS_CRAP environment variable is not set
<ggole>
module Foo : sig val f : unit -> unit end = struct type t = A | B exception F of t let f () = raise (F A) end;; Foo.f () => Exception: Foo.F 0.
<MercurialAlchemi>
not that useful
<ggole>
What's not useful? Being able to read your data types?
<MercurialAlchemi>
oh, no, that's definitely useful
<MercurialAlchemi>
having to count the position in the variant, though...
<ggole>
Ah, right
<ggole>
It's even better if it has an argument
<ggole>
Then you get Exception: Foo.F _.
<MercurialAlchemi>
yes, that's what I just tried
<ggole>
The printer doesn't actually know how to display types that are hidden behind signatures - so it guesses.
<MercurialAlchemi>
well, if one day Santa comes with modular implicits
<icicled>
syslog would be a decent option for logging. you can configure the output separately
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<MercurialAlchemi>
you should imagine that abstract types implementing a show interface could be displayed
<MercurialAlchemi>
icicled: I'd rather have something like log4j
<MercurialAlchemi>
or one of its clones
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<icicled>
syslog interface + rsyslog or syslog-ng works just as well
<flux>
so after modular implicits and oc4mc, is ocaml complete?-)
<MercurialAlchemi>
what's oc4mc?
<MercurialAlchemi>
multicore?
<flux>
yes
<MercurialAlchemi>
well...
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<hugomg>
Hi everyone. Today I officially finished my finished Ocaml project, thanks in part to the help of this wonderful community. Time to celebrate!
<MercurialAlchemi>
I guess it will already be huge improvements
<MercurialAlchemi>
I'm sure I'll find something else to curse at, though
<def`>
ppx/meta prog
<MercurialAlchemi>
isn't the camlp4 genocide well underway?
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<def`>
yep but killing a failed attempt doesn't provide a solution
<thomasga>
I'm trying to have a very simplified API
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<thomasga>
not yet, I plan to do this soon
<Drup>
ok
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<Drup>
hum, actually, now that I think about, we also potentially need to synchronize this store across various servers. While not strictly history, that's something irmin would do nicely
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<thomasga>
how fast do you want it to be?
<thomasga>
do you prefer "fast only" or "a bit slow, but with a nice Git history"? :-)
<adrien>
88mph?
<Drup>
thomasga: currently, we use dbm.
<thomasga>
but I think Irmin is a bit overkill for your use-case
<Drup>
That's also my opinion.
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<Drup>
mfp: didn't you had some sort of plan for a pure OCaml lmdb-like ?
<avsm>
eh why wouldnt you want history in ocsipersist?
<avsm>
you could build a lovely dag of the conversations going back and forth to the client
<Drup>
It's not that I don't want it, it's more "how much slower does it make the session mecanism ?" :x
<Drup>
this k/v store is queried literally all the time.
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<avsm>
i would think that the head queries should be as fast as a normal k/v store
<avsm>
it's just memory density that would be lower
<Drup>
Hum, okay.
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<mrvn>
The main question is: How many redirects and round trips do you need to retrieve a value?
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<Drup>
avsm: in any cases, ocsipersist should be made much easier to plug in, so that we can put whatever we want. Once that is done, it doesn't matter much what we choose initially (and I agree that irmin could make something very nice)
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<rgrinberg>
avsm: ping
<avsm>
rgrinberg: pong
<rgrinberg>
Not sure which mailing list is best to raise this:
<rgrinberg>
can we git mirror ocamlfind/ounit in the ocaml org?
<avsm>
yeah, although it would be good to get upstream agreement
<avsm>
as you can't stop pull requests on github, annoyingly
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<rgrinberg>
yeah that's unfortunate, although even redirecting them upstream is useful
<avsm>
i wonder if it's too late for a serious Cohttp cleanup. Maybe we should just cut 1.0 and start doing it properly in 2.0
<avsm>
Uri needs a rejig as well, for the same reasons
<rgrinberg>
still, they're both crucial bits and would be great to follow/opam pin the
<rgrinberg>
m
<avsm>
yeah. infrastructure@lists.ocaml.org is the best list, but gerd didnt want to last I asked (a few years ago now)
<rgrinberg>
yes. I've also looked at using uri at ocsigenserver and unfortunately it has some flaws blocking
<Drup>
avsm: how serious would it be ? ^^'
<rgrinberg>
he objected to moving the repo right? Cause I'm proposing mirroring only
<rgrinberg>
i've tested snap and wai to confirm that they ignore empty chunks
<rgrinberg>
wanted a non haskell data point as well though
<rgrinberg>
will give something a try in the next few days
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<avsm>
rgrinberg: yes, good point — that one bites in annoying ways with JS frameworks
<avsm>
rgrinberg: am in california, wont be cutting 1.0 till i'm back in cambridge next week
<pyon>
Is there any way to say "complete this module with all the obvious type definitions so that it matches a given signature"?
<Drup>
ppx import ? ^^'
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<rgrinberg>
avsm: we need a stackage like announcement mechanism in opam :D
<avsm>
rgrinberg: how's that work? i was thinking of using hannes xmpp client :)
<rgrinberg>
avsm: it's basically an "opam-repository" where on every release downstream breakages/bad upperbounds get reported to maintainers: e.g. https://github.com/fpco/stackage/issues/370
<avsm>
nice...
<rgrinberg>
they also need a package -> maintainer mapping though
<avsm>
we could auto create issues now, with the opam 1.2 metadata
<rgrinberg>
i dont think we need that since we dont have 2 package sources (e.g. hackage)
<avsm>
yeah, just the opam metadata should be fine
<avsm>
dsheets has a really cool new opam2web incoming
<avsm>
that diffs metadata, so it says "new author: joe bloggs" by looking at the opam diffs
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<S11001001>
avsm: neat
<MercurialAlchemi>
avsm: it would be even better if it could tell if the new API was incompatible ;)
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<pyon>
Is it possible to make a functor that takes a standalone type as argument?
<Drup>
no
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<nojb>
module Make (S : sig type t end) = struct … end
<Drup>
put the lonely type inside a module :)
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<xavierm02>
Hi. I have a weird signature missmatch that probably comes from the fact that I use higher order functors (line 93) and I'd be really grateful if someone could look into it. Thanks in advance for your help. http://pastebin.com/5XGynPxa
<nojb>
try putting “with module Var = Var” after “module Make_Term (Var : Variable.S) (TT : TheoryInterface.THEORY_TERM) : TheoryInterface.TERM”
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<xavierm02>
nojb : thanks :)
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<rgrinberg>
Drup: how does ocsigenserver parameterize over the db impl. of oscipersist?
<rgrinberg>
i don't see a functor anywhere :D
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<Drup>
ahah
* Drup
laugh sadly.
<Drup>
dynlink.
<def`>
rgrinberg: did you had more success with fileencoding?
<rgrinberg>
from what i can tell the persistence itself is an "implementation detail"
<Drup>
what do you mean ?
<rgrinberg>
def`: let me try again, i've ran out of latin1 samples
<rgrinberg>
;D
<rgrinberg>
Drup: i mean you can easily have an implementation of ocsipersist that is just in memory
<Drup>
You can technically, but it's used in eliom only if you ask for persistence
<Drup>
This is something you can't really enforce in the types anyway, so yeah :)
<rgrinberg>
i also i don't think its even a blocker in any way either. the dbm/sqlite backends are in their findlib packages no?
<rgrinberg>
just dont use them and you're good
<def`>
rgrinberg: thx :)
<Drup>
rgrinberg: an ocsipersist implementation is mandatory for eliom to run
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<rgrinberg>
then what does "but it's used in eliom only if you ask for persistence" mean
<rgrinberg>
def`: what did rks say? I think i missed it
<Drup>
means that if you don't ask an eliom_ref/session to be persistent, it will just be a hashtbl (iirc)
<Drup>
(or a ref/lwt_ref for references)
<def`>
rgrinberg: I don't know which version you have, but it amounts to replacing "&encoding" by "&fileencoding" in merlin.py
<rgrinberg>
def`: ok. i have master
<def`>
rgrinberg: not sure it made its way to master :P
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<rgrinberg>
just a note, :set fileencoding? shows that the var is not set for me
<rgrinberg>
but let mtry
<hugomg>
just wondering: is OPAM usable on windows yet?
<Drup>
I'm afraid it's not.
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<rgrinberg>
is cygwin not enough?
<rgrinberg>
def`: LookupError: unknown encoding
<rgrinberg>
that makes sense since fileencoding isn't set for me
<rgrinberg>
and :set encoding? is set to utf8
<hugomg>
well wodi is also on cygwin... right now would it be better to use opam on cygwin or wodi?
<def`>
rgrinberg: ok, so the problem is that vim don't know the fileencoding :'
<Drup>
I'm not even completely sure opam works on cywgin
<def`>
I am not sure what I can do… assume ascii?
<def`>
can you try by hardcoding ASCII? (As I said, on my computer encoding succeeded with all the files you linked)
<rgrinberg>
I see
<rgrinberg>
anyway it's not a big deal for me since i can just purge all the latin1
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<Drup>
Pour Jérôme, getting reencoded like that.
<def`>
rgrinberg: if there is no encoding, fallingback to ascii (or latin1 given ocaml roots :)) seems reasonable, do you get an error message in this case ?
<Drup>
rgrinberg: if you have a quick command to do it, you are free to make a pass on the other ocsigen projects ;)
<rgrinberg>
Drup: sigils are for perl programmers ^_^
* Drup
didn't know half of europe was such a bastion of perl programming :D
<rgrinberg>
def`: i don't get an error but vim fails to write (naturally)
<Drup>
(and talking about sigils, I personally prefer APL :D)
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<def`>
rgrinberg: ok, thanks, I'll add the test for no fileencoding
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<mfp>
Drup: no, I just said a mini-leveldb of sorts (i.e., a LSM) built atop a mirage block device could be a fun project
<mfp>
I assume it does window scaling, what about Reno, Nagle, selective ack, etc.?
<mfp>
ouch
<adrien>
and frto and ss and ...
<adrien>
?
<mfp>
git grep says there's window scaling and Nagle
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<Drup>
oh, it's part of arakoon
<mfp>
didn't arakoon use bitcask at some point? (or I am just confusing with riak?)
<Drup>
bitcask's webpage mentions riak
<mfp>
yes, bitcask was riak's first storage engine (they later added and mostly migrated to a leveldb fork of theirs so as to support datasets larger than mem),
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<mfp>
but I seem to remember arakoon experimented with that (or a bitcask port to ocaml) at some point
<Drup>
(you are very welcome to give your opinion on ocsipersist backend replacement, considering your knowledge on the topic :p)
<Drup>
mfp: I don't know. I asked you the other day, and you seemed to be on the opinion that it was still relevant. We will see when the cohttp branch will be review
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<nuki>
excuse me, do you know why a ppx usage add [@@@ocaml.ppx.context] anot ?
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<whitequark>
it contains the, um, context
<whitequark>
include directories, command-line flags and a few more things
<whitequark>
that being said, you should not ever see that annotation
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<nuki>
Ok thanks :)
<nuki>
It's maybe because i use cons to add let binding on the begining of the AST
<whitequark>
hrm
<whitequark>
it should be added and removed by Ast_mapper
<whitequark>
are you using 4.02.1?
<whitequark>
and build everything in 4.02.1?
<nuki>
4.02.1
<nuki>
euh
<nuki>
no
<whitequark>
ok
<nuki>
4.02.0
<whitequark>
hm?
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<whitequark>
oh, that's the answer
<whitequark>
use .1
<nuki>
oké i try it
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<nuki>
is there a special manipulation to do
<nuki>
I just do "opam switch 4.02.1"
<nuki>
and eval opam config env
<nuki>
but
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<nuki>
is not a compiled interface for this version of OCaml.It seems to be for an older version of OCaml.Makefile:21: recipe for target 'ppx_test.native' faile
<whitequark>
clean everything
<whitequark>
and rebuild
<nuki>
ahaha yes sorry
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<nuki>
Hm it's possible to rebuild all with opam?
<whitequark>
hm? how's opam even related?
<whitequark>
you need to rebuild your project, not opam packages. the opam packages are fine
<nuki>
i have rebuild my project (and clean everything before)