ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<MooseAndCaml> Is there a way to copy a record with a mutable value so that when the value of the new record is changed, the old one remains the same? doing let y = {x with ...} is modifying both x and y
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<adrien> I don't observe that
<MooseAndCaml> hmm...thanks for testing that. ill double check my code...
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<flux> maybe you have 'ref' fields in the record, that could be confusing. the 'with' syntax does not create new 'ref's.
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<MooseAndCaml> no ref fields in the record... The mutable variable is nested in a few types inside the record I'm copying I'm doing let z = {x with one_random_field = 0} and the accessing the ref through z
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<MooseAndCaml> I cant add the assignments in the with directly because the filed is a variant type, with two more nested fields
<flux> do note that type 'a ref = { mutable contents : 'a }
<flux> so it may bear some resemblance to your data structure
<MooseAndCaml> what do you mean?
<flux> and the 'with' syntax is literally the same as just doing { a = x.a; b = x.b; c = x.c; .. }
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<flux> so it will share the original fields except the one you overrode by hand
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<flux> I mean that if you have sort of reimplemented 'ref' in your code, it will of course have the same semantics.. and that on the other hand 'ref' is not anything particularly special, it's the mutable field that's special.
<MooseAndCaml> is there any kind of deep copy? this record has lots of fields which are records or variant types with records and mutable
<MooseAndCaml> or is it necessary to dive in to all of the manually, extract the value from the ref and create new refs?
<flux> well.. you could use Marshal for serializing and deserializing it..
<flux> but other than that, there is no deep copy
<flux> one could probably be implemented in C..
<flux> the case of embedded lambda functions might be a tricky one.
<MooseAndCaml> oh that sounds rugged... do you avoid such records?
<flux> well, I don't often use mutable fields. I don't know about your use-case.
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<MooseAndCaml> cool. ill just do a manual copy till I have a moment to dive in. I'm glad it wasn't just buggy code
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<ggole> Mutable fields are OK when you have a thing with identity, in which case you usually don't need to copy
<ggole> Other than that they can be trouble
<ggole> You can easily get bugs when you put things in hashtables, etc
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<HashGa> Hi everyone. The directive "type alias_name = type_we_want_to_create_alias" just create an alias. So, for the compiler, alias_name is totally considered as the type we want ? No differences ?
<ggole> HashGa: they might be printed differently
<HashGa> ggole: printed ? What do you mean ?
<ggole> The type name as printed in the repl, in error messages etc
<HashGa> Oh ok. It's because I want to use it to be clear in my library, but it must be transparent for people who use library.
<HashGa> Is it the best method ?
<ggole> You can use abstract or private types for that.
<HashGa> For example, if I would like to represent (math) vector as a "'a array" with the alias "vect", the user can sent as parameter a "'a array" without having problem or warning.
<ggole> And you want to prevent that?
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<HashGa> I want to authorize user to send an " 'a array" and he's not obliged to know that a vect type is used. Now, I use " type vect = 'a array" and in interface I define my function with the vect type. I don't get any warnings and errors, but I don't know if there's something behind this.
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<ggole> Oh, I guess you *don't* want abstract or private types then
<HashGa> Oki, thank you for your help.
<ggole> In short, aliases seem to be what you want - a new name but not a new type.
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<HashGa> http://pastebin.com/vGpdJTWh <-- here an example.
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<HashGa> The user doesn't know that a vect is used.
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<bernardofpc> Hey, my emacs does not change the background to highlight the expression I'm doing a merlin-type-enclosing on. Any ideas on what can I do ?
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<ggole> bernardofpc: did you install a theme or anything like that?
<def`> bernardofpc: M-x customize-face merlin-type-expr
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<ggole> def`: oh by the way, you added an argument to the call to set-temporary-overlay-map which breaks older (not all that much older) versions of emacs
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<bernardofpc> ggole: not that I'm aware of, I've very little emacs experience
<bernardofpc> It says something about :inherit caml-type-face
<bernardofpc> caml-types-expr-face in fact
<ggole> Which probably doesn't exist
<bernardofpc> :D
<ggole> You can override it in customize, or try to arrange for it to exist by loading, uh, I think it's tuareg-mode which defines that
<bernardofpc> I guess Tuareg is on
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<bernardofpc> (Tuareg merlin (default) AC)
<ggole> Hmm
<ggole> Do you have the caml-mode stuff installed?
<ggole> From what I can see tuareg-mode loads those if they exist - they probably define that face
<bernardofpc> oh
<ggole> Yeah, it's in caml-types.el
<bernardofpc> so Tuareg needs caml-mode
<bernardofpc> I was not aware of that :/
<ggole> It doesn't *need* it, but it will use it if it is there
<bernardofpc> well, right, so Merlin needs Tuareg with cml-mode in order for colors to behave well in C-c C-t
<ggole> Well, you could just define the face yourself
<ggole> Up to you.
<bernardofpc> If somewhere in merlin docs this was easy to find
<bernardofpc> or maybe people just have to use IRC
<bernardofpc> ;-)
<ggole> It's a tuareg thing, really
<ggole> merlin just uses tuareg-type-face and assumes it's OK
<rks`> ggole: the break, do you have the commit in which it was introduced?
<ggole> (How's that for buck-passing?)
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<ggole> rks`: no, but I can probably find it if you want
<rks`> no don't worries, I'll look for it myself
<rks`> but I remember we had a discussion about it
<rks`> I don't remember if the conclusion was "we need to fix that" or "well, too bad." though :D
<bernardofpc> if A works out of the box only if either you know in advance what to set, or if B comes set up with C working right, I guess it could say that in docs
<rks`> bernardofpc: open an issue :)
<bernardofpc> I've had no use for t-t-f before it was needed by merlin ;-)
<bernardofpc> rks`: I've no GH accound
<bernardofpc> (ouch the Greeen, but hey, thanks ggole )
<rks`> ah :D
<rks`> well
<rks`> I'll try not to forget
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<MercurialAlchemi> I didn't know the React source was NSFW
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<tane> MercurialAlchemi, in what way? :)
<MercurialAlchemi> tane: in the 'type 'a smut' way
<tane> hehe
<MercurialAlchemi> I'm sure dbuenzli has a private branch with a React.FiftyS module
<MercurialAlchemi> completely unreadable, obviously
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<tobiasBora> Hello !
<tobiasBora> I would like to be able tu use >>=, >|=... defined in Lwt
<tobiasBora> However I always need to use Lwt.(>>=)
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<tobiasBora> Of course I could put open Lwt but the problem is that is loads lots of fonctions that could cause some conflicts.
<ggole> let >>= = Lwt.(>>=)?
<ggole> let (>>=), I mean
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<mrvn> .oO(from Lwt import >>=, the one good thing about python)
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<pippijn> mrvn: and haskell
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<mrvn> haskell has other things going for it
<pippijn> yes, I meant haskell has it
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<seangrove> I see very little mention of OCamlSpotter/Typerex, etc. - are they not widely used?
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<tobiasBora> ggole: Ok I just think it's a bit eavy to write 4-5 lines every time. But I should survive ^^ Thank you !
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<MercurialAlchemi> Python also has other things going for it :)
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<sheijk> seangrove: i think most people use merlin
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<seangrove> sheijk: Yeah, was hoping for some refactoring support - merlin has rename instances, which is cool, but not much else
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<tane> how can i parse tokes with tuples in menhir? any ideas? :)
<tane> i have token: TOKEN of string * string. But k,v = TOKEN and (k,v) = TOKEN don't work
<Drup> seangrove: typerex is mostly unusable and dead
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<Drup> ocamlspotter is not as cool as advertised, because it gives ... unsatisfactory results
<Drup> oh, ocamlspotter, not ocamlscope
<Drup> well, merlin is just plain better
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<lyxia> tane: t=TOKEN and pattern match inside the braces { let k, v = t in ... }?
<tane> that didn't work either
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<lyxia> tane: What's the error?
<Drup> show the code ?
<seangrove> Drup: I'll stick with merlin then, thanks
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<tane> Error: The constructor Lexer.INFO expects 2 argument(s), but is applied here to 1 argument(s)
<Drup> where is the error ?
<tane> line 27
<tane> nah, it isn't
<tane> it's somewhere in the generated code
<Drup> hum, let me guess
<Drup> put parens around "string * string*"
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<tane> Drup, tried that, same thing
<Drup> Hum.
<tane> i've been looking for menhir examples but couldn't find tuple use yet
<lyxia> tane: Uh, it compiles.
<tane> meh
<tane> what version of menhir do you have?
<lyxia> 20140422, is that too old?
<tane> 20141215 is what i got
<tane> well.. i'll have a look at that later then, thanks for the help so far
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<ousado> if you wanted to programatically create wrappers/bindings for objective-c (specifically ios) APIs, which tools would you use/suggest to consider?
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<seangrove> How can I convert Unix.time() to a string?
<seangrove> I tried `let str_number = Printf.sprintf "%f" Unix.time() ;;` but it seems the types don't match up
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<mrvn> seangrove: () is not a function call, it's a value. You are passing 3 args to sprintf while you want to call time instead.
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<seangrove> mrvn: Ah, yes, I keep geting bit by that, I'm sorry
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<TheLemonMan> silly question here, what's the point of a 'type' declaration in a sig ?
<Drup> well, expose a new type
<mrvn> so that you can use it in later sigs
<ggole> They also participate in functor machinery
<TheLemonMan> I'm reading some code that has a declaration like this 'type `a t' but I'm not sure of the meaning here
<mrvn> It's an abstract type with a parameter
<TheLemonMan> so it'd be correct to do 'type `a t = option` ?
<mrvn> option takes a parameter too
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<flux> note that ` and ' are different characters. it's actually 'a .
<flux> so it would be correct to be type 'a t = 'a option to elaborate ;-)
<TheLemonMan> why the leading 'a ?
<mrvn> it's a placeholder. Means you can have "int t", "float t" ...
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<flux> thelemonman, usually the signature may provide an abstract type such as type 'a t and then the type 'a t is exactly defined in the .ml file
<flux> and why use 'a instead of not using it? well, for example if you are implementing a data structure and you want people to be able to put integers in and take integers out, instead of putting integers out and crashing when taking strings out..
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<TheLemonMan> oh, great! I was confused by the 'backwards' notation
<TheLemonMan> also, is there something equivalent to ghci's :t ?
<mrvn> What's :t?
<flux> hmm, maybe not quite
<flux> though ocaml does tell the type of all expressions that end up to the toplevel
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<flux> you could emulate it with, say, lazy (expression here);;
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<flux> of course, usually you just do plain expression;; if you don't need to emulate the :t ;)
<Drup> TheLemonMan: #show
<flux> ah, forgot about that :)
<flux> it's new and all :/
<TheLemonMan> Drup, thanks!
<flux> hmm, I don't think it is it, though?
<flux> #show shows module signatures?
<TheLemonMan> now I just need to stop forgetting the trailing ;; and get rid of that hideous prompt heh
<TheLemonMan> flux, it seems so
<flux> and recalls type definitions I see
<Drup> flux: #show shows everything.
<flux> drup, well yes, but you can do :t 42 in ghci
<Drup> hum, right
<flux> but nice, I didn't actually know #show works on objects other than modules
<Drup> but that's because ghci doesn't bother giving you the type when you type "42"
<Drup> (which is remarquably idiotic, if you ask me)
<bernardofpc> what else does #show show ?
<Drup> bernardofpc: any declaration
<TheLemonMan> duh, utop is sometimes slow as hell
<Drup> the loading is, yes
<Drup> it's a known issue
<TheLemonMan> sometimes it's slow at evaluating simple expressions too
<def`> TheLemonMan: try utop -no-short-paths
<Drup> other than the first one ?
<Drup> def`: isn't that solved ?
<TheLemonMan> it seems to happen only the first time I type in an expression
<def`> Drup: "lol"
<Drup> ah, only in trunk OCaml ?
<def`> Drup: the solved short-path is no-short-path :P
<Drup> that's not really a solution.
<def`> the acceptably slow solution is only in trunk yes
<Drup> right.
<def`> but short-path is a non-feature imho
<Drup> for utop or in general ?
<def`> (admitedly trolling)
<def`> in genral
<Drup> I disagree then :p
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<TheLemonMan> I'm feeling silly and the compiler isn't helping, what's wrong in 'List.fold_right (&&) [true, false] true' ? I've double checked the signatures and should be ok
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<Drup> the list separator is ";", not ","
<flux> [1,2;3,4] is a list of two tuples :)
<TheLemonMan> oh god I hate myself so much
<TheLemonMan> I've been struggling in the past 10 minutes because of the same error
<TheLemonMan> (on a side note, are there builtin and/or for lists of bool ?)
<def`> List.for_all id / List.exists id
<def`> (and let id x = x :P)
<TheLemonMan> noice
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<t4nk774> Hi
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<TheLemonMan> what do I do when ocamlc kindly suggests that "Error: This expression should not be a function" ?
<def`> can't help without context
<bernardofpc> never seen this !
<TheLemonMan> here's a minimal testcase "let fuq = List.for_all (fun x -> x);;"
<TheLemonMan> which utop happily accepts as valid
<pippijn> let da f = f [1; 2; 3]
<def`> TheLemonMan: you are using core
<def`> List.for_all ~f:(fun x -> x);;
<pippijn> wait
<pippijn> 10 minutes?
<def`> And the full message says "…, the expected type is 'a list" !
<pippijn> you've been struggling for 10 minutes and you hate yourself already?
<pippijn> you need to grow a thicker skin
<bernardofpc> OCaml will teach that
<pippijn> every programming language will
<pippijn> this is part of programming
<TheLemonMan> pippijn, I'm just silly as shit and keep forgetting that it's ; and not ,
<bernardofpc> well, ocaml compiler is pretty harsh on making you write things clearly
<pippijn> in ocaml, most of the annoyances tend to be type errors, in other languages you may get more runtime errors to ponder
<TheLemonMan> def`, why does it need to pass f as a named param ?
<bernardofpc> TheLemonMan: well, this is annoying, but it's mostly the by-product of every lang designer wanting to be smarter than the other guys
<pippijn> because the signature was defined like that
<pippijn> the library designer decided that this was a good idea
<bernardofpc> TheLemonMan: because that's the "Core philosophy"
<bernardofpc> they really like named arguments, and I can see a point for it in clarity of code
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<TheLemonMan> so you can't pass named arguments in the order they're defined ?
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<Drup> you can, if the application is complete
<Drup> partial un-labeled application don't work
<TheLemonMan> gotcha
<TheLemonMan> #show doesn't show the named params
<Drup> that's because you #show the stdlib function
<TheLemonMan> I'm pleasantly and genuinely confused
<bernardofpc> TheLemonMan: perhaps your toplevel is NOT using Core, whereas your compiler is
<TheLemonMan> Core has no List module (and I've opened core in the utop repl)
<Drup> Core.Std
<Drup> ;)
<TheLemonMan> oh, I see, it also has the argument in the reversed order
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