ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
<mrvn> haesbaert: the the FD to non blocking and it will return early.
<mrvn> single_write will, iirc, only write once and only up to 16k and then return however much it has written.
<mrvn> s/the the/set the/
<haesbaert> I'm actually using Lwt, and it says that Lwt_unix.write has the "same semantics" as Unix.write, but looking at the code, it doesn't seem so
<mrvn> haesbaert: write also writes in 16k chunks but loops till len is reached or an error
<mrvn> why would you want a shortcount with lwt?
<haesbaert> not that I want to, but I need to be able to read more stuff if I get a shortcount
<mrvn> then just read. lwt will keep writing in the background
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<haesbaert> but lets say I have: read_into ic buf bla bla >>= fun n -> write_into oc buf bla bla; recurse()
<haesbaert> sorry:
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<haesbaert> but lets say I have: read_into ic buf bla bla >>= fun n -> write_into oc buf bla n; recurse()
<mrvn> then don't reuse buf
<haesbaert> now, as long as write doesn't finish writing the "whole n", my read won't run, right ?
<mrvn> or wait for completion
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<haesbaert> not sure I follow either of both suggestions
<mrvn> haesbaert: if you set the FD to non blocking then you should get a short write and a EAGAIN on the next try
<mrvn> But the real question is wether you want to alternate read and write or do them concurrent
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<haesbaert> concurrent would be, so you mean everytime I read, I wake another Lwt to do a write ?
<mrvn> you queue up the buffer for writing in another lwt. You have to keep the writes in order.
<haesbaert> hmm, right now I'm keeping track of a writing and reading index, expecting I'd have a shortcount
<mrvn> but on a shortcount you have to track how much was written and then start again from there next time you write.
<haesbaert> yep
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<mrvn> And you can't read any more into the buffer unless you move the remainder to the front or something. That would realy waste cpu.
<mrvn> So better to just have one reader and one writer thread
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<haesbaert> I just reset the buffer when the reader catches up
<haesbaert> read moves a rpointer, w moves a wpointer, when r = w, I reset both to 0
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<haesbaert> it's ok to stall in my case
<haesbaert> I just can't have the writer blocking the reader
<mrvn> haesbaert: so you want shortcount on read too?
<haesbaert> the amount read on read is not relevant, I try to fill a 4k buffer from a tcp sock
<mrvn> then do that and then pass the buffer to the writer thread. Let that write the whole thing while the reader fills the next buffer.
<haesbaert> hmm I suppose I can share the same buffer, if I'm careful with the indexes
<mrvn> I wouldn't.
<haesbaert> I wouldn't like doing two allocations
<mrvn> you can pre allocate an number of buffers and pass them back and forth.
<mrvn> That would also naturally limit the amount of read ahead.
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<haesbaert> ack, it's just a nc(1) clone, I was trying to keep it simple
<mrvn> then you still want non-blocking so you get short reads. In case the user only presses a single key you don't want to wait for the other 4095 bytes.
<haesbaert> but for that you don't need non-blocking at all
<haesbaert> the read is not a read_really
<haesbaert> read fd buff ofs len reads len bytes from descriptor fd, storing them in byte sequence buff, starting at position ofs in buff. Return the number of bytes actually read.
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<mrvn> yes you do. It is unspecified wether a blocking read from a socket will wait for all the data or only return as much as present.
<haesbaert> unspecified by the ocaml read, or the syscall ?
<mrvn> Common implementation is to block on files and return early on sockets and pipes. But nothing says that is so. You need non-blocking to get a defined behaviour.
<mrvn> haesbaert: unspecified by posix and probably windows/mac too
<mrvn> the syscall
<haesbaert> although it is not specified that a blocking SOCK_STREAM socket will not block unless the whole requested block is requested,
<haesbaert> that is defeated by the premise that the records boundary are part of application, and frankly, I've never seem a SOCK_STREAM sock implementation that would wait for the requested bytes.
<mrvn> it is specified that non-blocking will not block and that's the behaviour you want.
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<haesbaert> it's ok for me to block on read, I just can't block on write
<mrvn> It actually will block if there is no input. In your code above that would leave you blocking with bytes to write and doing nothing.
<mrvn> Not nice for nc
<haesbaert> true, assuming the write is sequential after the read, like the code I pasted
<haesbaert> I'm still wrapping my head around Lwt, thinking in threads is hard
<mrvn> another point for splitting it into 2 threads
<mrvn> means the writer can catch up when the reader blocks
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<mrvn> n8
<haesbaert> night, thanks for the support
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<Algebr> Are the schedulers in stuff like Async/Lwt using algos like OS type scheduler, ie Round Robin, etc.
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<tobiasBora> Hello !
<tobiasBora> I have a problem with format...
<tobiasBora> With ksprintf I manage to do a function of type string -> int -> int -> (unit, unit, string, unit) format4 -> unit
<tobiasBora> However when I do myprintf brick_name verbose 3 "===== Hello %s =====" name
<tobiasBora> I have an error :
<tobiasBora> Error: This function has type
<tobiasBora> string -> int -> int -> (unit, unit, string, unit) format4 -> unit
<tobiasBora> It is applied to too many arguments; maybe you forgot a `;'.
<tobiasBora> How could I say to ocaml that --->"==== Hello %s ====" name<--- is a format ?
<SGrondin> you could add a type annotation where it's declared
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<tobiasBora> SGrondin: What do you mean ? I already have a mli file with val printf :
<tobiasBora> string -> int -> int -> (unit, unit, string, unit) format4 -> unit
<SGrondin> in that case I'm not following you.. it would help if you made a gist or a pastebin with a code example
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<tobiasBora> SGrondin: Here is an example : http://pastebin.com/imUn42iF
<tobiasBora> SGrondin: Or directly from the top-level : http://pastebin.com/TUihvnh3
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<SGrondin> your printf function takes 3 arguments, you try to pass 4 to it
<SGrondin> it takes int, int, function
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<bernardofpc> tobiasBora: you got the type wrong
<bernardofpc> it should be (string -> unit, unit, string, unig) format 4 -> (string -> unit)
<bernardofpc> it is strange though that it type-checks
<tobiasBora> bernardofpc: indeed it works... But only when I have a string after ^^
<tobiasBora> Is it possible to have a general structure ?
<tobiasBora> Hum
<tobiasBora> I tried with 'a
<tobiasBora> And it works in toplevel
<tobiasBora> let's try in .mli
<bernardofpc> tobiasBora: sure, the most general type is that inferreed by the toplevel, without any constraints
<bernardofpc> val printf : 'a -> 'a -> ('b, unit, string, unit) format4 -> 'b
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<bernardofpc> (I *guess* that 'b should be in fact ('c -> unit), but I'm not 100% sure
<bernardofpc> those 'a -> 'a exist just because ">=" can compare anything, and you probably *want* to restrict them both to int as you did
<bernardofpc> but you should not restrict the last argument neither the return value
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<tobiasBora> bernardofpc: Indeed it works on most of the functions I'm using, but one still resists : http://pastebin.com/EFv7ehja
<tobiasBora> The strange thing is that it works in Toplevel...
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<tobiasBora> How...
<tobiasBora> I have in my code something like Debug.printf "PhTools" (-1) 3 "==== Configuration PhTools ====";
<tobiasBora> And it seems that this line is enough to set 'a to unit...
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<tobiasBora> And by the way the same problem occurs on toplevel :
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<tobiasBora> bernardofpc: Here is an example : http://pastebin.com/UAWwNQ00
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<tobiasBora> Hum
<tobiasBora> It seems that ksprintf must englobe the whole function
<tobiasBora> (that's pretty logical)
<tobiasBora> let's try !
<tobiasBora> forget
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<tobiasBora> The error comes when I add the [%.3f]...
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<tobiasBora> How my god...
<tobiasBora> Can you believe that : http://pastebin.com/8Jbvd0qQ
<tobiasBora> There is only a change between let t = 3.1 in, and let t = Sys.time () in and it's enough for create a change !!!
<tobiasBora> Is someone can explain me I am really curious...
<tobiasBora> I use now a global variable instead and it works...
<tobiasBora> Really strange
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<flux> tobiasbora, you are encountering the value restriction. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25763412/why-does-ocaml-sometimes-require-eta-expansion
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<flux> tobiasbora, consider this code: let a = let b = ref None in fun arg -> let old_value = !b in b := Some arg; old_value
<flux> your code of course doesn't do this kind of bad things, but I suppose it's hard to detect only the 'really' bad cases
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<struk|desk> phew these types errors are so misleading sometimes
<flux> just insert more type annotations ;)
<struk|desk> I figured it out
<flux> I was going to draw the old "like violence" analogy, but I failed :(
<struk|desk> I renamed a var to "value" by accident, which also happen to be a function the module, the compiler error was crazy. the fix was just rename variable to one already bound in a let block earlier
<struk|desk> *function in the module
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<struk|desk> okie dokie, time for bed about 4 hours ago, gnite all
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<flux> nite ;)
<xificurC> struk|desk: byee
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<kakadu> https://ocaml.org/docs/license.html seems a little bit outdated because it doesn't mention compiler-libs in libraries list. Am I right?
<adrien_znc> dunno but compiler-libs should be the same license as compiler itself
<adrien_znc> afk
<flux> maybe not, isn't compiler-libs quite an essence of the compiler?
<flux> though it should list it I suppose in one of the lists at the very least :)
<flux> you should ask the mailing list?
<dmbaturin> Anyone knows offhand what search path mpp uses for input/cat etc.?
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<chris2> any idea why opam search core_profiler would list a package, but opam install core_profiler cant find anything?
<rks`> might not be available on your version?
<chris2> # Existing packages for 4.02.1:
<chris2> shouldnt it be listed then?
<chris2> hm, indeed. my core is too old
<rks`> that's a bit weird
<rks`> As you first guessed, I meant version of the compiler
<rks`> but then, opam is mystery to me :]
<chris2> yeah oO
<chris2> and adding --verbose suddenly makes it figure out how to upgrade
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<flux> 1) install aspcud 2) I think opam does have some bugs in its internal resolver..
<chris2> probably should do that
<flux> if you indeed find different functionality depending on the --verbose-switch, I think you should report it :-)
<chris2> and sometimes it asks what do do and sometimes it just does
<flux> look at step 1 :-)
<flux> also, step 2
<chris2> and i still believe if you need to map your packaging problem onto a NP-hard problem, you've done something wrong at some point...
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<dmbaturin> https://github.com/dmbaturin/MPP-language-blender Forking MPP made github think it's written in SML.
<chris2> i wonder how they differentiate that
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<companion_cube> dmbaturin: yes, people have been complaining about that since yesterday
<chris2> my checking which syntax-highlighting fits best?
<dmbaturin> Oh. Maybe we shoud look into linguist SML vs ocaml detection then.
<companion_cube> yes, there's an issue actually: https://github.com/github/linguist/issues/2208
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<chris2> but i have re2 112.06.00 installed
<chris2> oh <= 111
<dmbaturin> https://github.com/github/linguist/issues/2208#issuecomment-78259876 Added some SML syntax notes there.
<apache2> [ 661.647274] camlp4[1416]: segfault at 41 ip 00007fb0f3719bd0 sp 00007fff9d4cd080 error 4 in dllbigarray.so[7fb0f3717000+5000]
<apache2> [ 764.398152] camlp4[1446]: segfault at 41 ip 00007f05c704ebd0 sp 00007fff52ad1290 error 4 in dllbigarray.so[7f05c704c000+5000]
<apache2> [ 1125.114750] camlp4[4634]: segfault at 41 ip 00007f505b8b7bd0 sp 00007fff24a3f610 error 4 in dllbigarray.so[7f505b8b5000+5000]
<apache2> unsure what to make of this (from dmesg)
<apache2> [trying to compile a project on debian]
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<flux> dmbaturin, I think they're probably not going to use such a sophisticated analysis to differentiate between languages..
<flux> perhaps using pairs or triples instead of single words could be achieveable :)
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<dmbaturin> flux: Yeah, that's why I picked those that can be simple regex checks.
<adrien_znc> apache2: open a bug with details about your system: http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/my_view_page.php
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<dmbaturin> How do I enable building with -g in oasis?
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<companion_cube> dmbaturin: if you generate a configure file, there is a switch --enable-debug, I think
<dmbaturin> companion_cube: Thanks, going to try. MPP doesn't use configure file though so I'd have to modify its oasis stuff first, but I figured it out already. :)
<dmbaturin> Name shadowing when the shadowed binding has very different type is a bit evil.
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<flux> why? I think it's even better, no chance to confuse them :)
<companion_cube> dmbaturin: otherwise you need to tell ocamlbuild rather than oasis
<whitequark> apache2: most likely you are trying to use opam with camlp4 from a different switch
<whitequark> or system camlp4
<whitequark> adrien_znc: it's unlikely that this is an ocaml bug
<apache2> whitequark: I'll try removing camlp4 and reinstalling
<whitequark> try doing `which camlp4` and `echo CAML_LD_LIBRARY_PATH`
<whitequark> if one refers to opam and other does not, you have a problem
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<apache2> they do, thanks
<dmbaturin> companion_cube: I guess I need to learn more about using ocamlbuild directly.
<companion_cube> good luck
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<dmbaturin> Is "good luck" a warning that I'll really need luck in this case? :)
<flux> break a leg!
<whitequark> ocamlbuild is nice.
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<whitequark> dmbaturin: ocaml setup.ml --enable-debug
<whitequark> er
<whitequark> dmbaturin: ocaml setup.ml -configure --enable-debug
<whitequark> configure script is just a proxy for that, that adds twenty lines of some shell garbage
<Drup> debug is enabled by default
<whitequark> basically like the rest of oasis
<whitequark> one useful line per twenty lines of pretentiously obscure overengineering
* whitequark pulls out a few torches
<adrien_znc> whitequark: with bigarray you never know ='(
<whitequark> adrien_znc: i'd wager camlp4 would be free of bigarray bugs for now
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<adrien_znc> with mmap, not necessariy
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<dmbaturin> whitequark: Oh, good to know.
<haesbaert> I think I found an issue, the Lwt_unix.write docs specifies that it has the same semantics of Unix.write, but with co-operation
<haesbaert> but according to the code they differ in other aspects as well: http://codepad.org/z5plqRBG
<companion_cube> whitequark: I have no idea how to enable/disable parts of a library using ocamlbuild
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<whitequark> companion_cube: just don't build it
<whitequark> ie: ocamlbuild foo.cma foo.cmxa [bar.cma bar.cmxa]
<whitequark> with stuff in [] omitted for non-bar builds
<whitequark> adrien_znc: camlp4 does not use mmap
<companion_cube> well it doesn't look as easy as a call to configure, in an opam file
<whitequark> with topkg you can do ocaml pkg/build.ml bar=true
<companion_cube> I'll most likely wait for assemblage
<whitequark> topkg is 90% assemblage, but right now :p
<whitequark> bünzli also says topkg will be deprecated in favor of assemblage... but for now
<companion_cube> 90%? not if assemblage builds stuff itself, I guess
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<companion_cube> (rather than calling ocamlbuild)
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<Drup> for now, it doesn't
<companion_cube> that's why I'm waiting with oasis :p
<whitequark> traitor
<companion_cube> :p
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<adrien_znc> whitequark: hence the weird thing :)
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<struk|work> I've been trying to understand the lablqt / qml "binding". Can one use that system to link in basically any C++ lib?
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<whitequark> no
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<struk|work> so ctypes / libffi it is. bleh
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<whitequark> not for C++
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<struk|work> ok I have on more possibility...maybe write "ppx_pof" which essentially would be a fork of "ppx_protobuf".
<struk|work> smondet: do you think ketrew would work for a performance testing harness? Currently the harness is a homebrew hodge podge of shell scripts to rsync/launch from EC2 linux nodes, and then aggregate logs for stats afterwards.
<whitequark> struk|work: what would that give you?..
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<struk|work> whitequark: well I am trying to get ocaml into my work place. options are ocamljava, which I am trying to avoid because besides obvious issues with that approach it's ppx support isn't great. another possibility is I provide a binding to a coherence api, which would allow an ocaml runtime to join the existing coherence cluster. the final choice is I do SaaS over http or a messaging protocol.
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<struk|work> whitequark: for that last choice, I would probably have to use Portable Object Format, since thats a first class binary protocol in my company (json would be too slow for interdatacenter communication)
<whitequark> 2nd one sounds best to me
<whitequark> ah, that works too
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<companion_cube> I wonder, didn't someone talk about a ctypes-like library for java?
<struk|work> whitequark: 2nd one is pretty difficult, as coherence api is only java, .NET, or C++. it was originally written in java so it's very OO
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<struk|work> companion_cube: really? got a link?
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<companion_cube> oh, my bad, it's ctypes for ocaml-java -_-
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<companion_cube> sorry
<struk|work> companion_cube: on the plus side, https://github.com/xclerc/ocamljava/issues/23
<smondet> struk|work: I'm not sure of what you would need Ketrew for, we can ta about it at the next meetup if you want
<smondet> *talk
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<Drup> there is an entry somewhere in one of the ocamllabs wiki about that project
<Drup> (in answer to "ctypes for java")
<struk|work> smondet: sounds good, although I meet need to ask you questions sooner than that. I will study your docs some more today though
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<smondet> struk|work: ok!
<struk|work> smondet: first question..why does 4.02.X not supported?
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<smondet> struk|work: it is in the master branch, 0.0.0 was using `ocp-build`, 4.02.x is one of the ways that tools is broken
<smondet> but we switched to generating an _oasis file now :)
<smondet> which is less broken
<Drup> ahah, ocp-build
<struk|work> smondet: ok cool
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<tobiasBora> flux: I'm not sure to understand why eta-expansion can cause any trouble since my variable isn't a reference... And I tried to add type annotations everywhere but my function is still '_a instead of 'a...
<tobiasBora> Here is the function I cannot compile without defining start_time has a global variable...
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<flux> tobiasbora, it's a product of a function call. ref is a function. so in that sense there is no difference.
<flux> the restriction is a bit strict, yes, but relaxing it in a sense that is still easy to understand is not quite straight-forward
<tobiasBora> (with the link it's better :http://paste.ubuntu.com/10581310/)
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<tobiasBora> flux: Hum you mean that the function (fun brick_name...) behaves like ref ?
<tobiasBora> So there isn't any solution but defining start_time outside of the function, even by adding lot's of type annotations ?
<flux> you can do: http://pastebin.com/WWgSzwXQ
<flux> ie. make printf a function
<flux> as far as I know, there aren't really other solutions
<flux> then you need to call it like printf () ..rest of the args.. of course
<flux> actually no
<flux> now that I actually undestand what you want to use it for.. it's not suitable for you.
<flux> because if you do let p = printf () .. the p you get is again value restricted
<mrvn> tobiasBora: That fuinction works fine here
<flux> mrvn, but this doesn't: printf "hello" 4 2 "hello world %s" "42"; printf "hello" 4 2 "hello world %d" 42
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<flux> so your only option is to have the start time be a global. of course, you can hide the value in the module signature.
<tobiasBora> flux: Yes, after I want to do something like >>>let p = printf () "my module" in<<< and use it like >>>p "Hello %s !" name<<<
<mrvn> ahh, that you mean
<tobiasBora> mrvn: yes the problem is here
<tobiasBora> But in Ocaml a variable is fundamentally different from a function ?
<tobiasBora> I though that a variable was a kind of constant function
<flux> for example this works: module PrintingStuff : sig val printf : (string -> int -> int -> ('a, unit, string, unit) format4 -> 'a) end = struct let start_time = Sys.time () let printf fmt = Printf.ksprintf (fun s -> ..) fmt end let printf = Printing.printf
<mrvn> tobiasBora: ocaml has no variables
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<flux> though you cannot hide the PrintinfStuff module from current module 8-)
<smondet> mrvn: I think even the manual uses the word "variable" for the names bound to constants by `let`
<tobiasBora> flux: Yes I think I will keep this way to proceed... Thank you for your help !
<flux> tobiasbora, good luck :)
<tobiasBora> mrvn: So variable and function is the same thing ?
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<mrvn> tobiasBora: ocaml has no variables
<tobiasBora> mrvn: So what does ocaml has
<mrvn> bindings
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<tobiasBora> mrvn: This binding : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_binding ?
<mrvn> tobiasBora: kind of
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<tobiasBora> Not sure to understand the difference with variable... This binding seems to explain what is the link with the source code and the representation in memory
<tobiasBora> but I don't see why it cannot be called a variable
<mrvn> a variable is something like: int x; x = 0; ++x;
<mrvn> it's a technical thing
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<Drup> tobiasBora: mrvn is being pedantic and insist that variable are mutable, while the one in OCaml are immutable
<tobiasBora> Oh I see
<Drup> in practice, everyone call them variables, including the manual and the compiler error messages, and mathematicians since several (hundreds of) years.
<flux> immutable variable is not in fact an oxymoron
<mrvn> expect those people that explain eta-expansion and value restriction and that stuff
<tobiasBora> By the way why is is impossible to modify a var... binding in Ocaml ? Is that for efficiency reasons ?
<flux> for example: f(x) = x + 5 - x is an immutable variable
<Drup> tobiasBora: semantic reasons
<flux> why is it variable? because it varies from call-to-call.
<Drup> immutability by default is just a better semantic
<mrvn> flux: which x?
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<mrvn> flux: you ahve 2 of them
<tobiasBora> x is an immutable variable ?
<tobiasBora> And what is f ?
<mrvn> tobiasBora: a value, same as 5
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<flux> mrvn, it was a mathematical function. or in ocaml syntax: let f x = x + 5
<flux> there are yes two x's, but they refer to the same instance
<mrvn> flux: one is free and one is bound
<tobiasBora> flux: I see
<mrvn> iirc my theory correctly
<mrvn> -c
<Drup> both are bound.
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<Drup> there are no free variable here
<Drup> there is a binder and 2 bound variables, period
<mrvn> right, binder. that's what I was looking for.
<tobiasBora> mrvn: So what I call a function is a value for Ocaml ? And a value is different from an immutable variable ?
<mrvn> tobiasBora: evrything in ocaml is a value
<mrvn> tobiasBora: so that doesn't help you much
<tobiasBora> mrvn: So I don't really understand why there is a difference between the function with a unit at the beginning and not...
<mrvn> tobiasBora: and a variable (binding) gives a value a name
<tobiasBora> ok
<Drup> a binding is the piece of syntax/semantic that binds the variable
<Drup> that's all
<Drup> nothing else
<mrvn> tobiasBora: the difference is that printf takes an argument before calling Sys.time ().
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<mrvn> let printf () = ....
<mrvn> unit -> string -> int -> int -> ('a, unit, string, unit) format4 -> 'a = fun
<mrvn> # let g = printf ();;
<mrvn> val g : string -> int -> int -> ('_a, unit, string, unit) format4 -> '_a = <fun>
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<mrvn> By applying the first argument the value restriction kicks in again.
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<tobiasBora> Actually I don't really want that Sys.time () is applyied each time I recall my function
<flux> tobiasbora, it's easiest to see with references: let foo () = let v = ref None in fun new_value -> let old_value = !v in v := Some new_value; old_value
<flux> you can determine that it's always safe to call this function
<mrvn> tobiasBora: you don't. you do: let printf_int = printf (), let printf_float = printf (), ... and each one gets it's own '_a
<tobiasBora> And I don't understand why does g has a '_a variable, while if I put "5.1" instead of "Sys.time ()" (that have the same type) is doesn't work...
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<mrvn> tobiasBora: because a function application can have refs in them
<mrvn> tobiasBora: e.g. the Sys.time could be like fluxes foo
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<flux> actually let's go simpler
<mrvn> tobiasBora: overall the type system isn't smart enough to see that nothing would break in this special case.
<flux> let bar () = 5;; and let foo = let a = bar () in fun () -> a;;
<flux> I think we can all agree that calling foo () is safe; no matter what you do, it will return '5'
<flux> its type is: unit -> int
<flux> now let's change the definition of bar: let bar () = ref []
<tobiasBora> yes
<flux> and re-evaluate the foo function
<tobiasBora> foo : unit -> 'a list ref
<flux> without the value restriction, we would now have a function val foo : unit -> 'a list ref
<flux> how would this be bad?
<tobiasBora> If later I put
<mrvn> let x = foo () x := 1::!x x := "foo"::!x
<tobiasBora> bar := 1; then foo will become unit -> int list ref
<flux> without the value restriction it will not come that
<mrvn> tobiasBora: can't do that, bar is a function
<Drup> tobiasBora: that's the behavior of '_a, but not 'a
<flux> it would remain polymorphic
<mrvn> taking unit
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<tobiasBora> Hum
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<mrvn> Other languages call bar a factory
<tobiasBora> You mean that you just created a variable of type 'a
<tobiasBora> ?
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<flux> exactly. though, even if he didn't create such a variable..
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<flux> it would be the same to do: foo () := [1]; foo () := "foo"::foo();;
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<flux> because it's always referring to the same instance
<flux> but it's a polymorphic value, so it can be anything
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<flux> (actually it's ::!foo())
<flux> (actually2 it's ::!(foo ()) :-))
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<mrvn> lets make it simple and say let x = foo ()
<tobiasBora> Ok I understand :D
<tobiasBora> He cannot say that (at least this little example)
<tobiasBora> *
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<tobiasBora> s/He cannot say that//g
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<mrvn> Advanced followup: when I use: type r = { start_time : float; fn : 'a . .... } let printf = let r = { start_time = Sys.time (); fn = ... } in r.fn why is it still '_a? Shouldn't the universality trump the value restriction?
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<companion_cube> I don't think so, you need ... in fun x -> r.fn x
<companion_cube> when you do r.fn, I think it generates fresh variables, so the value restriction applies
<mrvn> companion_cube: no. must be earlier when r is created
<mrvn> if you move r out of the printf then it works.
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<tobiasBora> mrvn: flux: Drup: I'm sorry but I have to go, I'm already late. But I will come later, it's not the first time I have such problem and I wan't to understand once and for all...
<tobiasBora> Thank you for your help !
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<whitequark> "why is utop called like so" "using utop is pure utopia"
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<Denommus> raw OCaml doesn't include an option type, does it?
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<dmbaturin> Denommus: It does.
<dmbaturin> type 'a option = None | Some of 'a
<companion_cube> I was going to say it's defined in the stdlib, but no, it's even tighter because it's used for optional arguments
<Denommus> dmbaturin: does it have a module for utility functions, like List or Array?
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<apache2> yes
<apache2> they're called "List" and "Array"
<def`> Denommus: nop, no support modules
<def`> for options
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<apache2> oh. I misunderstood the question. what sort of helper functions would you like to see, Denommus ?
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<Denommus> apache2: for Option
<Denommus> but that's okay, I reinvented the wheel :)
<Denommus> (I know there's some libraries with support modules for that, but it's just a simple script)
<companion_cube> basically you need map and flat_map
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<TheLemonMan> how comes array/strings/bigarrays have different indexing operators ?
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<companion_cube> it's for type inference purpose (and also because OCaml has 0 support for overloading)
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<dmbaturin> TheLemonMan: This is what allows you to avoid type annotations almost entirely.
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<meteo> hi all
<meteo> does mirage-os use libc ?
<whitequark> no
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<meteo> that's awesome
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