ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
<nullcat_> i can use ref ... but that's awkward
<Drup> nullcat_: this function is not applied to the string, it's the blocking function that generates the elements
<Drup> s/string/stream/
<nullcat_> um
<nullcat_> make sense!
<Drup> otherwise, the answer may be "use Lwt_stream.create instead"
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<nullcat_> and it seems deriving_yojson does not work if one field in a record is a list
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<Drup> nullcat_: can't reproduce, works fine here
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<Drup> wait, do you have Core open or something like that ?
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<nullcat_> yes.............
<Drup> yeah, that's the issue
<nullcat_> but... i have to use core_kernel.std
<nullcat_> wait... not really
<nullcat_> lol
<Drup> 1) you don't *have* to ;)
<Drup> 2) just don't open Core
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<nullcat_> well, what if it is indeed needed
<Drup> if you open Core, it overrides List and changes the type, so the code generated by deriving becomes invalid ...
<nullcat_> ok...
<nullcat_> i can try let open core in ...
<nullcat_> and open in a module...
<nullcat_> thanks!
<nullcat_> kind of understand why whitequark rants about "ecosystem serves Jane Street"...
<nullcat_> and oasis support for ppx is not that bad, as he said...
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<Drup> oasis support for *using* ppx is perfectly fine
<Drup> for *writing* ppx, that's a whole different story.
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<nullcat_> you mean writing ppx code and wrapping it into library using oasis>
<nullcat_> ?
<Drup> and using it internally, in particular
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<Drup> AltGr: I played a bit with opam-lib yesterday: in which cases does OpamPackage.max_version returns Not_found ?
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<AltGr> on an empty set only, normally ?
<AltGr> er no, it takes a package name; when there is no package of that name
<AltGr> btw, I refactored the lib a lot recently: be sure to use the 1.3 branch if you don't want to have to port in the near future
<AltGr> it should also be clearer
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<AltGr> (there is a summary of modules in text file doc/modules)
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<Drup> apparently, it can on other circonstances
<Drup> I used opam-lib directly from opam so still the old version. considering the size of my script, it's not that much of an issue :]
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<Drup> %a takes two arguments, f and x
<Drup> where f is something that prints on a formatter
<Drup> and x is the thing to be printed
<Drup> @. is a break hint for Format
<nullcat_> i see. without dot it produces undesired result...
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<nullcat_> I am reading cohttp's code.ml and found out this RFC https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt
<nullcat_> anyone knows its history? :)
<Drup> "Thus, there is a strong, dark, rich requirement for a protocol designed espressoly for the brewing of coffee."
<Drup> that sentence is just golden
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<nullcat_> oh this RFC was passed on Apr 1st
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<Drup> well, obviously
<nullcat_> ......
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<n3ss3s> Is there a concise expression for testing if a = b = c, or do I have to do a = b and b = c?
<Drup> the later
<Drup> and it's &&, not and
<n3ss3s> yeah I was using english there, not ocaml :p
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<rgrinberg> which one of you is responsible for this? https://github.com/Octachron/ppx_listlike
<rgrinberg> :P
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<n3ss3s> Should I expect problems to arise from deleting a file with Sys.remove, and immediately (as in, the next line) recreating the file and writing into it?
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<dora-molly> no?! why should you?
<dora-molly> from the point of view of your program, these two operations should always appear sequentially consistent, so don't bother
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<dora-molly> however, if another process is involved, then given you had some synchronization point after removal, it should be ok. yet, the semantics of VFS is sometime… fancy
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<Algebr> I have some module types defined in A.mli and their corresponds structs in A.ml. Now I'm trying to use A's modules in B.ml but I keep getting unbound module errors when I try to use modules from A in B.
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<flux> do you have A.cmi?
<flux> or what kind of build system do yo use?
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<xificurC> anyone knows of a good online resource to writing an ML interpreter/compiler?
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<ggole> Yeah, mincaml
<flux> "As for the next major release, it will include a number of new features (including, if all goes well, support for multicore). It will be released some time around the end of this year." :-o
<flux> ocaml 5.0?
<flux> also how about implicits..
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<adrien_znc> \o/
<reynir> Ah, implicits! When you get errors like "This expression has type foo but an expression was expected of type foo" :D
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<flux> I had never noticed how interesting pull requests and discussions can be found here: https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pulls
<flux> it is almost as if GitHub is an imporant piece of infrastructure being used by the OCaml developers!
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<flux> I guess this is the time to start drumming in all medias that OCaml 5.0 will be out this December and will have multicore, overloading and unicorns? right?
<xificurC> do users submit patches and stuff to the ocaml compiler codebase? It seems to me that it is hidden somewhere in France, not to be touched by anyone else :)
<xificurC> usually there's someone on irc from the devs to give pointers on these things, here it seems the users don't get any updates on what will come out when
<flux> there's no need to submit anything, ocaml is just perfect as it is!
<flux> but if you have something worthwhile to submit.. you need to advertise it :)
<flux> it seems that everything is a bit connected to everything else so that it makes difficult to make actual compiler patches unless you have a very good idea what you're doing
<xificurC> flux: yeah, I'm not educated enough to submit any patches, I'm just wondering how come noone in the channel is (or the other way around how come none of the devs sit around here). The compiler then seems to be covered in fog, noone knowing how and when and what will happen
<adrien_znc> well, that one was a surprise
<adrien_znc> several people here have contributed to the compiler and continue to do so
<adrien_znc> with more than minor stuff
<xificurC> ggole: thanks for the link, I'll look through it
<xificurC> adrien_znc: I see. So how come noone really knows how is development going?
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<flux> I wonder how much of the core discussions occur face-to-face, given it's mostly developed at one research institute?
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<xificurC> reading back what I wrote I hope I didn't sound rude. I'm really just curious and am always happy to hear about these things
<flux> I think just reading the ocaml mailing list doesn't really give an "in" on what is happening
<flux> so those discussions must occur in other forums, such as other mailing lists, direct emails or face-to-face
<MercurialAlchemi> the OCaml mailing list is 80% calls for papers and 20% "help me with my problem"
<flux> calls for papers, final calls for papers and extension for paper submission times
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<xificurC> I'm spoiled by other channels like haskell, racket, or nim where everyone knows what's happening with their compiler
<flux> perhaps the insiders are hanging out at #ocaml-fr!
<flux> /script load google-translate.pl and off we go ;-)
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<flux> what is this? https://github.com/BinaryAnalysisPlatform/bap/ apparently a big project for reverse engineering binaries written in OCaml and I had never even heard of it
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<dmbaturin> xificurC: Maybe it's be because most ocaml users work on software other than compiler itself. :)
<dmbaturin> There's mantis, and it seems quite active.
<xificurC> dmbaturin: fair enough, but wouldn't you like to know when feature x will be implemented/released? Also, the devs often communicate with their users in order to get feedback
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<larhat> xificurC: you can try http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php if you want to know what is happening
<flux> well, there is the OCaml Consortium, I imagine a lot of discussion occur there. ie. among paying members ;-)
<dmbaturin> Mantis is a good platform for development discussions actually, since it allows tracking of issue status and attached patches.
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<dmbaturin> One of the most elaborate issue trackers I've ever seen.
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<dmbaturin> xificurC: Being a maintainer myself, I'm usually satisfied with "when it's ready". :)
<dmbaturin> That is, I realize how huge the situational awareness gap between casual user (or even a casual contributor) and a maintainer can be, and that sometimes feature release may be slowed down or blocked by problems I have no idea about.
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<flux> xificurc, btw, regarding "what's ahead", perhaps this provides some insight: http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/changelog_page.php
<nicoo> xificurC: You can submit compiler & stdlib patches on GitHub
<nicoo> Mantis is more active, though
<flux> it would be nice if the revision xxxx-stuff in mantis was a link to the change set in github, though
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<nicoo> flux: More likely to get linked to some svnweb thing (resolving the commit hash through git-svn sounds painful)
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<flux> sure, link to anywhere would be best, but it doesn't sound it would be intractable to do the changeset link either. the commit logs have the original change set id, right?
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<dmbaturin> flux: There's a mantis plugin for it AFAIR.
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<adrien_znc> mantis is tied to inria's admins
<adrien_znc> so updates and changes...
<flux> greasemonkey to the rescue :-)
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<adrien_znc> :)
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<nicoo> flux: Write us a nice jsoo thing for that, then :P
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<mattzen> Hi folks, can anyone explain to me why this example apparently isnt tail recursive?
<mattzen> let rec sum_int n = if n = 0 then 0 else n + (sum_int (n - 1))
<mattzen> I see the value being passed over?
<mattzen> < new to ocaml
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<Drup> is it more obvious to you if I rewrite it like that : "let rec sum_int n = if n = 0 then 0 else let result = sum_int (n - 1) in n + result" ?
<cojy_> n + recursion isn't tail
<mattzen> I can kind of see it
<mattzen> It is a little tricky seeing it
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<Drup> it's rather simple: the recursive call must be the last thing done
<Drup> here, it's not the last thing, there is a + after.
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<mattzen> Right I see
<mattzen> Thank you
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<flux> mattzen is gone, but merlin can show what is tail recursive and what not
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<AbrahamSkrillexl> HELLO
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<xificurC> is code like this idiomatic? http://lpaste.net/132411 Or does one try not to go too deep somehow
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<flux> well, I don't think that's too deep. but you could combine these matches, at least the two last matches
<flux> | { rank = 14 }::_ -> Royal_flush | r -> Straight_flush r
<flux> oops, { rank = r }::_ that is
<flux> though could also be { rank }::_ -> Straight_flush rank
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<flux> but you basically need the two matches, unless one of the matches is in another function
<flux> say: for_flush_cards hand @@ function | [] -> failwith "TODO" | .. if for_flush_cards is something you match often
<xificurC> flux: who is (@@) again?
<flux> it's basically an operator for avoiding parenthesis
<flux> a b c @@ d e f = a b c (d e f)
<xificurC> so haskell's ($)
<flux> yes
<flux> but @@ has better precedency for OCaml
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<flux> as you may know, the first letter of an operator defines an operator's precedency in OCaml
<flux> (s/letter/character/)
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<Drup> codoc patch on the compiler merged <3
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<adrien> oh
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<Denommus> now to implement ArrowLoop...
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<Denommus> Drup: do you have any directions to give me on how to implement val loop: ('a * 'c, 'b * 'c) wire -> ('a, 'b) wire?
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<Drup> I don't really remember the wire datatype, so no :D
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<Denommus> Drup: I thought about doing something like let rec loop w = WGen (fun ds input -> let (b, nc), nw = step_wire_int w ds (input, c) in (b, loop nw));; but I can't figure it out for life what "c" should be
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<Denommus> Drup: I just noticed that the original Netwire uses a MonadFix type to be able to implement ArrowLoop
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