adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml MOOC http://1149.fr/ocaml-mooc | OCaml 4.02.3 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<flux> so, now that I have used Cstubs_structs.TYPE.enum with the write_c fragment to generate c that generated .ml, surely there is a way to use this to convert the int64_t values according to the mapping I used?-o
<flux> hmm, or maybe I don't even need it
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<destrius> anybody knows who the maintainer for the llvm ocaml bindings is?
<companion_cube> `opam info llvm` suggests it would be whitequark
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<destrius> yeah wasn't sure if he's the maintainer or just helped package it for opam
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<destrius> altho i guessed the former
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<destrius> there doesn't seem to be bindings for the functions that let you access metadata nodes (MDNode)
<destrius> unless there's a function i'm missing
<flux> I'm sure pull requests are welcome :)
<companion_cube> maybe he didn't bind everything, indeed
<flux> bindings to big libraries often are like that..
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<destrius> yeah
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<destrius> i could either do that, or just use string_of_llvalue to dump the node as a string and parse it
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<destrius> which is horrible, but works
<destrius> lets see how much free time i have :)
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<vhf> Drup: wrt to jsoo produced code perfs you wrote on reddit about "jsoo emitting JIT-friendly code", did you have in mind the average JS programmer (who doesn't know much about JITs) or does jsoo use some JIT-friendly tricks a human would never think of when writing JS?
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<Drup> Sort of
<Drup> The javascript emited is "easy to type statically"
<Drup> (since, well, it has been staticaly typed ...)
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<Drup> So the JIT will see easily that "Oh, this x is actually an int, I'm going to represent that as an int".
<Drup> (There are also some typeof tricks, and the representation of string is a complete hack, but that's something else)
<Drup> vhf: Does that answer your question ?
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<vhf> Only partially. Variable reassignment with different types is not something good JS devs would do anyway I guess.
<seirl> you guess wrong
<seirl> "a = null"
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<Drup> vhf: except that's a discipline easy to break by humans
<Drup> (especially given javascript's scoping rules)
<vhf> it is indeed Drup
<vhf> though `const` mitigates it nowadays
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<vhf> anyway, I was mostly curious to know whether jsoo was playing tricks people wouldn't think of or spend too much time implementing if they were writing JS by hand instead of through jsoo
<def`> all offsets for projections are kniwn statically (except for arrays and objects) jsoo probably takes advantages of this
<def`> (there were blogposts on projections, but I don't remember precisely)
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<ggole_> Does that actually help a JS JIT, which deals with offsets dynamically anyway?
<Drup> vhf: the choice of representation of datastructure is also quite important
<Drup> (Like, when you use objects like map, the JIT engine usually optimizes that differently, so you can do things like that)
<def`> ggole_: a JS jit has to assume everything is dynamic but all speed up are made on static things
<Drup> vhf: There are probably various other things, but I don't know all the defails of what jsoo is doing
<vhf> ok thanks Drup
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<Yithar> I don't think there's any way to explicitly relate one polymorphic variant type to another polymorphic variant type, is there? If I have "type shape = [`Circle of float | `Square of int * int]" and "type circle = [`Circle of float]", I can't directly use a variable of type circle if a Hashtbl has keys of type shape. The way I'm converting it to shape is "match circle_var with (`Circle _) as shape_var->shape_var;;"
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<companion_cube> I think it's because Hashtbl.t is invariant in its parameters
<ggole_> You should be able to coerce with :>
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<Yithar> yeah coercion works
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<flux> so the ocaml-flock example of Cstubs_structs doesn't make use of the TYPE.enum
<flux> is there some way to reuse my definition making use of that function so that I don't need to redo the ocamltype-ctype-mapping if I want to convert between the integers and ocaml values?
<flux> my code looks like: http://www.modeemi.fi/~flux/random/FFmpegBindings.ml and the S.enum part doesn't seem all that useful at the moment..
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<Algebr> aantron_: here
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<Algebr> reading your comments now, thank you! I also considered that `Document ought to have been explicitly chosen but I figured that `Document would have been the default
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<Algebr> will markup now or later do section 3,4?
<Algebr> Can tyxml do it?
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<flux> I wonder how difficult would it to be add some ppx annotations to records and sum types (using ppx_deriving?) and generate the relevant Ctypes code.. seems like something to pursue.
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<aantron_> heya
<aantron_> Algebr:
<aantron_> i think markup won't ever do sections 3 & 4, its just not in the scope of the library (although i could be convinced otherwise). a library can sit on top of markup.ml, and implement content model validation
<aantron_> depending on how it's designed, the (core of the) implementation might be as simple as a (stateful) folder function over signal streams
<Algebr> i c
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<aantron_> i could conceivably do it, but im on a forced vacation due to overwork for the immediate future
<aantron_> are you looking into doing something like that?
<Algebr> ah, okay, sure, np. Whenever you get to it
<Algebr> No, because I don't know about HTML spec, its big
<aantron_> well the content model part is nowhere near as frightening as the syntax part, though still somewhat scary
<Algebr> and its not something super relevant to me. What valentine does already is enough bang for the buck for me, can already use at work
<aantron_> fair enough
<Algebr> when you do get around to it, then updating valentine ought to be trivial
<aantron_> its likely that i will put this off for a long time. ive been aware of the possibility of doing it, but i havent seen evidence that anyone really needs it in ocaml at this point
<aantron_> right
<Algebr> Not so much OCaml persay, but as a nice command line tool that happens to be implemented in OCaml, like a gateway drug to start a convo in a developer's mind
<aantron_> yeah, im very aware of the possibility of advertising ocaml itself with various projects :)
<Algebr> and org motiviation was crappy html at work being pushed and crappy html brekaing canopy blog
<Algebr> mirage canopy blog
<aantron_> is the level of "validation" you have now effective?
<Algebr> its nonexistent
<aantron_> i mean, with valentine
<Algebr> so doing valentine is already something dope
<Algebr> yes, its catching crap
<aantron_> alright cool :)
<Algebr> literally made in the airport.
<Algebr> sitting in frankfurt now
<aantron_> one thing, re the README, i dont know how much you care about it, but i wouldnt explain the validation level in terms of section 8.. because nobody knows what that means :)
<aantron_> returning from marrakech?
<Algebr> I updated the readme to reflect that
<Algebr> yes
<aantron_> no i mean deleting the words "section 8"
<Algebr> ah, yea well its the internet, someone pedantic will come along and complain eventually.
<aantron_> yeah, im still trying to think of what to replace it with, that is less than 2 sentence clauses long
<aantron_> something like "official W3C HTML requirements on syntax, together with some of the semantic requirements" or whatever fits grammatically
<aantron_> a portion of the semantic requirements..
<Algebr> added you, feel free to do whatever
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<aantron_> Algebr: PR or to master is fine?
<Algebr> master
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<aantron_> oh, one other thing, i have doubts about how "fast" anything based on markup.ml could be, at this point. markup.ml runs like 4x slower than xmlm, and WAY slower than ocamlnet. it is written in super naive style to keep it easy to change, until i (or others) are confident that it works right. then performance can be improved, probably drastically, since there are a ton of obvious opportunities
<Algebr> I'm baselining off of python
<Algebr> since that would be the alternative
<Algebr> but sure, will change it
<aantron_> its fine, if its actually faster than python :)
<companion_cube> Algebr: what is valentine?
<companion_cube> hm ok
<companion_cube> it's not on opam :p
<Algebr> because hasn't been merged yet
<Algebr> and I probably will get yelled at for the crap that oasis2opam does
<companion_cube> :D
<Algebr> I also started on an "OCaml manifesto", basically what's missing from OCaml being used by the average San Francisco startup, will link to this as well http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016 biggest category of developer is "Full stack web developer" at 28%
<companion_cube> oh dear.
<Algebr> Which I suspect means they do front end and touch node.js like once or twice...
<companion_cube> most know only JS, it's impossible to sell Ocaml to them
<Algebr> you're completley wrong
<Algebr> they want to know it
<Algebr> they see all these cool things happening to JS, coming from OCaml, all these FB tools in OCaml, they want it, just the ecosystem is missing some stuff from them using OCaml actually.
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<companion_cube> you're optimistic :)
<aantron_> lame
<Algebr> its from my daily interactions, and yes I'm optimistic, I'm under 30.
<aantron_> star trek!!
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<Drup> Algebr: and so, what is missing ?
<Algebr> that's in the manifesto.
<Algebr> have to edit and then publish
<Drup> come on, give us a preview
<Algebr> build env sucks, no ORMs, jsoo is hard to get into
<Algebr> hard to get shit done. 1 line of python/nodejs is 10 lines of OCaml + talking about Monads.
<Algebr> basically OCaml ignores the web programming story and as the stack survey shows, that's what majority of programmers that actually get paid to code do
<Algebr> ocsigen is also hard, even for OCamlers, let alone beginners.
<companion_cube> is your manifesto a pamphlet? :D
<Drup> I agree with ocsigen being hard, but I don't remember you even trying it :D
<Algebr> I did try it, I made my mom's website in it and have lots of ocsigen example code
<Drup> and saying that it "ignores web programming" and that it's more verbose is quite wrong
<companion_cube> Drup and the endless story of people not using the software he likes
<Algebr> its a single readme.md
<Drup> I'm sorry if I don't spend my time NIHing shit
<companion_cube> such as space invaders? ^^
<Drup> blah, don't really care about that one
<Algebr> I am relaying what I hear from people coming in for OCaml office hours in San Francisco.
<Algebr> Drup: I should wrap up my ocsigen code as a tutorial as well
<Algebr> it did actually work
<Drup> Algebr: eliom is not really made to serve a static single file
<Drup> It's .. really overkill
<Algebr> ah....the qualifiers.
<Algebr> but the thing it is made for is shown off by a 5 year old tutorial? So you would prefer then I don't share the tutorial right?
<Drup> I never said that
<Algebr> sorry, misread it
<Algebr> anyway I think the language can really take off like a rocket
<Drup> anyway, the point is moot, I can give you my ocsigen TODO list for things to do to make ocsigen more approachable. I've been working on it lately, it's just not ready to show yet
<Algebr> F# is doing very well in town
<Algebr> no reason why OCaml can't either
<Algebr> and more eyeballs and attention is always good, means more $$$ and investment in ecosystem.
<companion_cube> F# is on .NET...
<Algebr> mono
<companion_cube> bah.
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<Algebr> what! xamarin is awesome too!
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<aantron_> i dont know how well ocaml *can* do, but i know that it will do better than now if people document their libraries and then properly announce them both to ocamlers and to the outside world
<aantron_> among a few other things that can be done
<Algebr> getting kicked out of terminal, afk for bit
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<Anarchos> What does mean "file.cmo is not a bytecode file" in ocamldebug ?
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<mfp> hmm I have a server doing Lwt_ssl.ssl_accept... according to mallinfo, about 640 KB (hah!) are allocated at this point exactly - but it doesn't happen when I connect with s_client manually (and I get Compression: NONE, Expansion NONE)
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<mfp> does that ring a bell? looks like an internal buffer for decompressing
<mfp> but it's rather large (640 KB!)
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<companion_cube> edwin, Leonidas: work in progress for q{test,check}
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<Algebr> frankfurt airport is so big that the guard ride bicycles with electric engines.
<Algebr> guards
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<lobo> Algebr: hey ;-) i hope you've got really free wifi now
<Algebr> yea, its free. This airport is massive, they kicked us out of terminal Z, now in B
<lobo> Algebr: thats weird. i hope you could find at least a somewhat comfy (as in airport comfy) place
<Algebr> yea, its fine. German McDonald's is better than American McDonalds, German sodas are amazing too.
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<ollehar> massage chairs.
<lobo> Algebr: didn't know there is much difference, except that they have a couple of different burger depending on country
<ollehar> McWürst
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<ollehar> "You want a beer with that sausage?"
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<Algebr> I wish
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