adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Current MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.04.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.04.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Algebr> yea, I set non blocking on the underlying fd
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<Algebr> really annoyed that calling really_input_string can hang
<aantron> why wouldn't it? if len characters aren't available, and the fd isn't closed, it can't return you the characters
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<Algebr> So apparenly \r\n gets into strings differently if you use {||} rather than ""
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<aantron> Algebr: thats good to know. and quite crappy :p
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<_berke_> trying out flambda on some bigarray code... I find that -inline-call-costs X is needed to make it effective on my test case. the slightly-abstract version is then only 30% slower.
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<shortCircuit__> hi
<shortCircuit__> I am new to ocaml, I want to know that, if I want to include extlib module and use its functions for reading files, as in the ocaml docs. How to do it.
<shortCircuit__> ?
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<shortCircuit__> plz help
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<Onemorenickname> hi poeple
<Onemorenickname> is there a shorthand in ocaml for "fun () -> (expr)" ?
<Onemorenickname> (i really like CPS, lazyness and callbacks)
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<asmanur> Onemorenickname: have you checked out the Lazy module ?
<asmanur> (but it's not much shorter -- but you get memoization if that's something you're into)
<Onemorenickname> asmanur, it still requires me to pass (fun () -> (expr))
<asmanur> no
<asmanur> you can do (lazy expr)
<Onemorenickname> it's builtin syntax ?
<asmanur> yep
<Onemorenickname> oh
<Onemorenickname> nice :)
<asmanur> it's syntactic sugar for Lazy.from_fun (fun () -> expr)
<Onemorenickname> is there a way to add syntactic sugar in ocaml ?
<asmanur> yes
<asmanur> look at "ppx"
<asmanur> you can rewrite the parse tree which allows you to easily implement some syntactic sugar
<Onemorenickname> hm
<Onemorenickname> asmanur, is there a simple way to just do #define ~(X) (fun () -> (expr))
<asmanur> with a ppx yeah, but otherwise no
<asmanur> because ocaml is call-by-value (ie. it evaluates the argument before calling the function), there is no way to define eg. let ( ~ ) x = fun () -> x
<Onemorenickname> well, i guess i'll have to dive in ppx
<Onemorenickname> I meant to ask if there was a simple preprocessor library
<asmanur> oh
<asmanur> ppx is quite simply already
<Onemorenickname> I'll look into it then
<Onemorenickname> Thanks :)
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<orbitz> is there good reason to belief effects are in ocaml's future as a way to manage side-effects?
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<psacrifice> Hey everyone. I just got started with OCaml and was trying out cohttp. In the example, I could not understand >|= operator in the server example
<psacrifice> body |> Cohttp_lwt_body.to_string >|= (fun body ->
<psacrifice> (Printf.sprintf "Uri: %s\nMethod: %s\nHeaders\nHeaders: %s\nBody: %s"
<psacrifice> uri meth headers body))
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<def`> You need to learn about Lwt: http://ocsigen.org/lwt/2.6.0/api/Lwt#VALmap
<Leonidas> psacrifice: it takes a Lwt.t monad, pipes it though the function and wraps the function's return value in a new Lwt.t
<Leonidas> it's basically >>= with an implicit Lwt.return
<Leonidas> lobo: found the openlab/nixos assembly. I guess I'll hang out here a bit over the next days
<psacrifice> @def Just what I was searching for @Leonidas Appreciate the explanation
<Leonidas> psacrifice: it's a bit tricky at first but overall rather logical :)
<psacrifice> @Leonidas Yeah. My first time with Monads that too :D
<Leonidas> psacrifice: as long as you're not scared of the word too much you'll be fine. And if you have questions, feel free to ask them here. People are knowledgeable and helpful :)
<psacrifice> Great to hear that. Always worried about posting questions in the wrong channel/forum otherwise :)
<Leonidas> oh, seeing the previous discussion about ppx… I wonder whether it is possible to build if-let from clojure in ocaml, as an if%let, anyone has experience with writing ppx rewriters?
<flux> what is clojure's if-let?
<flux> sounds like a purely syntactic construct, so likely yes?
<Leonidas> if-let is basically an if which checks the truthiness of the value which was set in the let and if true, executes a block with the value set and if false and else block
<flux> so basically it would map to pattern matching 'a option? because ocaml doesn't have truthiness.
<flux> well, other than bool ;)
<Leonidas> flux: yes, that seems like the best way to map truthiness to ocaml
<flux> if%let a = Some 42 then Printf.printf "a = %d" a else (* a is not bound here *) ()
<flux> I think that would be perfectly doable, and easy as well
<Leonidas> it's kinda like a >>= but with a third param for the None case
<Leonidas> cool, then maybe I could try implementing it while at 33c3
<flux> hmm, now this was unexpected. I received a mobile phone notification via the matrix-client riot due to the mention of the nick 'flux', though I'm here from there with the user m-erkkiseppl :)
<Leonidas> flux: what would I use to construct such a rewriter? ppx_tools? ppx_driver? something else?
<flux> I think ppx_tools
<flux> and whitequark's ppx guide
<flux> or ppx_tools examples if there were any..
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<Leonidas> looks like it
<Leonidas> thanks :)
<flux> good luck :)
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<sspi> Drup: my compliments on your Z3 bindings - much easier to use
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<larhat> Leonidas: have you seen ppx_let? https://github.com/janestreet/ppx_let
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<psacrifice> Question: Why is there a =<< when there already is a >>=? Isn't it good to always have one way of doing things like in Python?
<psacrifice> Beginner here. Correct me if I'm wrong about something obv :) The question was in reference to LWT (ocsigen.org/lwt/2.6.0/api/Lwt#VALmap)
<Leonidas> larhat: i have heard about it. Hmm, their if%bind looks pretty much what I want to do with my if%let but more general
<Leonidas> psacrifice: sometimes you want to curry the function, sometimes you want to curry the monad, that's why there are both versions
<Leonidas> you usually want >>=, but since there is no flip in ocaml =<< can potentially make sense. I've never used the latter though.
<larhat> Leonidas: yes, that what I thought, and even if it's not exactly what you want, you can at least look at the source code to see, how implement smth like this
<Leonidas> larhat: excellent point, will do! thanks!
<Leonidas> so far i have an identity rewriter
<psacrifice> @Leonidas Curry monad? Can I have an example?
<Leonidas> psacrifice: let yourfun = (<<=) (fun x -> Lwt.return x)
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<ocaml105> hello! i'm new to ocaml,
<ocaml105> how do you guys use the [@@deriving ...] syntax with emacs and utop?
<flux> ocaml105, does #require "deriving.std";; in utop work?
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<ocaml105> ah yes!
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<psacrifice> Reader.file_contents filename
<psacrifice> >>= fun text ->
<psacrifice> @Leonidas I dont understand. Where is the Monad that is being binded? So far I have only seen a monad on the left like in
<flux> ocaml105, then you can append that to your ~/.ocamlinit
<psacrifice> the above snippet
<psacrifice> @ocaml105 Hi
<ocaml105> is there any way to let emacs' utop read from the .merlin file or something liek that?
<psacrifice> Fellow beginner here too. Are you following therealworldocaml too (https://realworldocaml.org/) ?
<flux> ocaml105, none that I know of
<psacrifice> @ocaml105 ^^
<Leonidas> psacrifice: you bind the function. if you'd use >>= then it'd bind the monad.
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<flux> it would be possible to write one that would use the toplevel libs (I don't know of them really, but like findlib itself) and then put an invocation to the end of .ocamlinit
<flux> seems like it would be a nice tool to have.
<psacrifice> @Leonidas I see. I'll keep in mind. Thank you
<Leonidas> flux: that sounds useful, indeed
<Leonidas> maybe if I get ppx_iflet out of the door quickly :D
<flux> leonidas, so I guess you have some spare time in these days between christmas and new year ;-)
<flux> "hey everyone, leonidas is bored af and needs project ideas to keep him entertained!!" :-)
<ocaml105> hahhah
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<ocaml105> you guys are great
<ocaml105> actually...
<ocaml105> after putting it in ocamlinit it doesn't work anymore...
<flux> ocaml105, which .ocamlinit did you put it in?
<ocaml105> is the order of commands in ocamlinit important?
<ocaml105> ~/.ocamlinit
<flux> ocaml105, well yes, it's evaluated top to bottom
<flux> so put it at the end
<ocaml105> i see, ok
<ocaml105> #use "topfind" #thread #require "ppx_jane,core.top" #require "async" #require "core_extended" open Core.Std
<flux> I suggest you put ;; after each of those?
<ocaml105> I got that from https://janestreet.github.io/installation.html, why is ppx_jane and core.top on the same line?
<ocaml105> is that important?
<flux> probably not, didn't even know that worked, but I guess it does
<flux> you probably want to place that new #require after the last one but before the open :)
<ocaml105> oops
<ocaml105> nope
<ocaml105> it doesn't work either way
<flux> well, I'm a bit surprised and out of suggestions :)
<flux> perhaps loading a ppx module is a special case.
<ocaml105> here's my ocamlinit now
<ocaml105> i thought everyone uses ppx and core... what do you guys use?
<ocaml105> or do you implement everything from scratch
<flux> wasn't it #require "deriving.std";; instead of "ppx_deriving"?
<flux> or maybe not, I don't have "deriving.std";;
<flux> I do have "ppx_deriving.std" though
<flux> I think many use ppx, but it's not required really for all projects
<flux> and many choose to use other libraries such as batteries or containers in place of core
<flux> but I think core is alright. (but it's different from the real ocaml standard library, not just an extension.)
<ocaml105> what do you recommend that a beginner use?
<flux> as the realworldocaml book uses core, perhaps that's the way to go
<ocaml105> i was following realworldocaml and hence i picked core
<ocaml105> ah ok
<ocaml105> does C-c C-b in tuareg sort of 'erase' the effect of #require "ppx_deriving.std"?
<flux> I don't think so.
<flux> the way to erase it would be to restart the toplevel
<ocaml105> shucks...
<ocaml105> i had to do #require "ppx_deriving.std" in emacs' utop
<ocaml105> and then do C-x C-e for all the ocaml code
<ocaml105> C-c C-b seems to remove the effect of the #require
<flux> hmm
<flux> I wonder if C-c C-b sends it to utop or plain ocaml toplevel?
<ocaml105> i think it goes to utop
<ocaml105> at least utop starts filling with all my ocaml code
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<lujara> Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong with anonymous type declarations? Must be some really simple syntax error
<aantron> lujara: you have at least a syntax error, you need } at the end of the record, not )
<aantron> if i fix it, the definitions are accepted
<aantron> but the error in the meantime is a syntax error
<lujara> aantron, my bad, typed that manually because i code on my laptop but am on my pc
<lujara> the actual code doesnt have that syntax error
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<lujara> ffs i had another type with the same name declared further above >.<
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<aantron> :)
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<lujara> thanks btw :p
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<Leonidas> flux: deriving might not be ppx_deriving but ocsigen deriving?
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<Leonidas> writing ppx wrappers is pretty easy and fun
<flux> :)
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<orbitz> What's the suggested time library to use? I want to, type safely, creat times, diff times, etc
<flux> I think CalendarLib is pretty comprehensive. perhaps even too comprehensive ;)
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<ocaml426> hi! new to ocaml....
<ocaml426> what does the pound sign mean in ocaml?
<ocaml426> does it only belong in the toplevel? or is it ok in code too?
<ocaml426> or, what is the pound sign called? (like #require "ppx_deriving.std") so I can google it
<Leonidas> ocaml426: where is a pound sign?
<Drup> (for a while, I was like "but £ is not used in OCaml ...")
<Leonidas> ocaml does not really use a pound sign
<Drup> ocaml426: we usually call it hash
<Leonidas> it's french, so € should be used :p
<Drup> ocaml426: in the case you described, it's for toplevel directives
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<Drup> Leonidas: well, ocaml was created before euro, so ₣ :D
<Leonidas> there are also cases where you use | #foo in a pattern match
<Leonidas> TIL Franc had a currency sign
<flux> and everybody forgets objects.. :)
<Leonidas> yeah, objects too
<Drup> flux: as always ;)
<ocaml426> i see, oops
<Leonidas> yeah, OCaml means that it's irish, not that its Objective :p
<ocaml426> yes haha ocaml is rather european, i forgot
<Leonidas> anyway, in that case it's a toplevel directive, not part of the language
<Drup> Leonidas: In old paper, you can ocasionally find it written "O'CAML"
<isd> Drup: I once took an operating systems course (in the US) with a British professor. One day I was looking at his code and my terminal did something weird, and I started seeing £include <...>; it was the freakiest thing ever.
<Drup> (yes, I'm not kidding, I've seen it)
<Leonidas> Drup: or when reading anything written by Gerd.
<Drup> Leonidas: it makes my eye bleed everytime
<Drup> eyes* even
<Leonidas> oh, Gerd seems to have changed it, can't find it anymore
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<Drup> Leonidas: anyway, recently, I stumbled upon an article with "and an implementation in Caml 3.1"
<Leonidas> ah, there in the bottom: http://blog.camlcity.org/blog/plasma4.html
<Drup> that was actually Caml, not OCaml.
<Leonidas> Caml 3.1 for Worstations
<Leonidas> When was Caml? Before/after Caml Light? Caml Special Light?
<Drup> (paper from 1992, so, it was prime technology at the time of writing :D)
<Leonidas> oh, and there was http://pauillac.inria.fr/olabl/
<Leonidas> O'Labl!
<ocaml426> hahaha
<ocaml426> what do i put in .ocamlinit to get rid of this error?
<ocaml426> type test = char list [@@deriving show];; ppx_type_conv: 'show' is not a supported type type-conv generator
<Drup> "The first Caml implementation in Lisp was nicknamed "Heavy CAML" because of its memory and CPU requirements relative to its successor Caml Light that was implemented in C by Xavier Leroy and Damien Doligez. In addition to a complete rewriting, CAML Special Light added a powerful (applicative) module system to the core language."
<Leonidas> ocaml426: you might need ppx_deriving.show
* Drup brb, adding "powered by HEAVY CAML" in his readme
<ocaml426> here's my http://pastebin.ca/3749778
<ocaml426> ocamlinit
<Leonidas> ocaml426: --^
<Leonidas> #require "ppx_deriving.show" possibly
<ocaml426> hmm nope, that doens't do it
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<dmbaturin> I wonder if the source code of the HEAVY CAML survived, it sure would be fun to try it on modern hardware.
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<dmbaturin> The original ML is aparently so lost that not even complete grammar survived, the papers have nothing in the interpreter implementation.
<dmbaturin> * on
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<Drup> dmbaturin: caml light is very well documented, though
<dmbaturin> Yeah, it also still builds cleanly even on very recent systems.
<Leonidas> ocaml426: well, when I require that in utop it works
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<Leonidas> it also generates the pp_test and stuff
<dmbaturin> Anyway, I'm going to ask THAT question again. ;)
<dmbaturin> If I want to add ocaml-protoc as a build step to oasis/ocamlbuild setup, what's the best way to do it?
<Leonidas> caml light has constructor functions, ffs :(
<Drup> ocaml-protoc ?
<dmbaturin> The protobuf compiler.
<dmbaturin> Leonidas: I think I've seen some justification for not making them functions somewhere, but I forgot what it was or where I've seen it. :)
<Leonidas> I could image this might create issues with weak polymorphism, your constructors get tainted by '_a
<Leonidas> but i don't know enough about thetye inference algorithm
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<Drup> Leonidas: meh, no
<dmbaturin> I could run protoc by hand and add the generated files to git, but I really don't like having to actively do anything to ensure autogenerated files are in sync with reality.
<dmbaturin> Though oasis and ocaml-protoc and whatever else is going to be a headache for the packagers, so I get to find some balance anyway.
<Leonidas> Drup: then why?
<Drup> it's a long and annoying debate, you can search the mailing list
<Leonidas> I wouldn't even know what to search for
<Leonidas> "constructor functions"?
<Drup> yeah
<Leonidas> jun furuse to the rescue https://opam.ocaml.org/packages/ppx_curried_constr/
<Leonidas> that's kinda neat