adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Current MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.04.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.04.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<dudelson> I'm relativey new to ocaml and I'm trying to figure out how "open!" is different from "open". Is "open!" part of the ocaml core language?
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<bitbckt> dudelson: yes.
<bitbckt> open! does not warn when the open shadows a value.
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<dudelson> bitbckt: thanks for the clarification. If open! is part of the core language, do you know why it isn't described on this page: http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/modtypes.html ? I would expect it to be documented there.
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<dudelson> Nevermind, it's documented in section 15 of this page http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/extn.html . Thanks again!
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<beginner> to set a breakpoint in ocamldebug i just write: break @ string 160 ?
<Algebr> ha, must have seen jordan's tweeting
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<sspi> hi, I'm entering unknown territory by looking into SMT solvers (Z3 specifically) but also in general by looking at type systems. Would it be realistic to check a OCaml program with one? Also what are the thoughts in general on SMT solvers?
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<zozozo> SMT solvers are nice, you might also want to look at automated theorem provers in general (they solve basically the same problem)
<zozozo> sspi: if you want to try some things, I have functors to create smt solvers available at : https://github.com/Gbury/mSAT
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<companion_cube> ^ caution: non-trivial notions ahead :P
<companion_cube> sspi: if you want a nice example of how to check (~)OCaml programs with SMT, take a look at why3 http://why3.lri.fr/
<companion_cube> in particular http://toccata.lri.fr/gallery/why3.en.html ; it features a ML-like language that can be extracted to OCaml and is designed for formal proving
<flux> zozozo, that's very nice!
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<companion_cube> if you want to write a SMT prototype in OCaml, yes, it is :)
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<zozozo> flux: thanks, are you interested in using it ?
<sspi> thanks, these links are really helpful
<flux> zozozo, well, I've never used a sat-solver, but certainly if I find a problem then that would be at the top of my list ;-)
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<zozozo> ^^
<sspi> I'll probably be lost in them for a while though
<flux> I have one light problem that might be applicable to a sat solver, but I need to think about it ;-)
<zozozo> flux: I'm available if you have any question about sat solving, :)
<sspi> my "problem" or actually interest: seeing if it's possible to make OCaml types dependent types
<companion_cube> tough
<flux> it was related to a description structure for controlling home automation and ensuring some properties about it.. but it's been a few years I gave it some though, so I've forgotten the exact problem ;-).
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<Drup> sspi: references that should look into:
<Drup> - 1ML unites again the module language (which is a form of dependent type system) and the core language
<Drup> - F* is a ML like language with dependent types that integrates SMT solvers for typechecking
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<sspi> drup: I found out about SMT and Z3 via F*. Also read about 1ML but I don't think it fits my use case (I really want to use the OCaml AST).
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<sspi> drup: you also worked on some z3 bindings right?
<beginner> why does the ocamldebugger not catch a raise exception_
<beginner> ?
<companion_cube> wondering how F* actually compares to why3
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<beginner> someone here ever used the ocaml debugger?
<Drup> companion_cube: I would say it's the same difference between coq and agda/idris
<Drup> I do not work on that anymore, though
<sspi> yeah noticed the old date
<Armael> from what I know, atm F# doesn't have tactics, so you have to write proof terms by hand (with the help of the SMT)
<Drup> but it should still mostly work, and if it doesn't, patch are welcome
<companion_cube> Drup: so you mean why3 is more usable? :p
<Drup> idris is usable
<companion_cube> heh. I just wonder how usable it is if you want to prove real properties
<companion_cube> it's an interesting design spot, in any case
<companion_cube> ok, so you meant that F* is for writing safe software, and why3 to write provably correct software?
<sspi> from what I see, F* seems more approachable to me (to be clear: I'm not very familiar with theorem provers)
<sspi> I especially like the idea of adding extra information to types
<sspi> (I made a small mistake, I meant refinement types not dependent types)
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<companion_cube> oh, ok
<companion_cube> indeed F* is exactly that, afaict
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<edwin> some interesting thoughts on avoiding NP-completeness in a language package manager by restricting the kind of dependencies you can declare (see the 'Alternatives' section): https://research.swtch.com/version-sat. Those suggestions would likely not work for global opam switches, but might be interesting to consider for the per-project opam switches: if you only allow conflicts on major versions, you always choose the newest minor version, and you give up wh
<Flerex> Hello! I'm working on an assignment for college and we're asked to work with an array of values that contain colors (R, G, B and W) that represents a Fibonacci clock. We are supposed to create a function that generates a random clock with the combinations of the colors for a given time. To do this I'll try to first generate all the possible combinations of clocks to then check on them as I think it's the best functional
<Flerex> approach (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not very confident on my functional programming. Is it okay if this function that generates all the possible combinations of the array has no parameters? Wouldn't it be just as if it was a normal data variable instead of a function? Our professor told us that functional programming is not about transforming data, but with results of functions.
<Flerex> but working with*
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<companion_cube> a random function is not really functional programming anyway :-)
<edwin> it would be better if the function generating the combinations takes a parameter that is related to the size of what you want to generate
<Flerex> But as the array of the clock is always of 5 elements, it would not be needed.
<Flerex> Maybe I should rethink the way I try to resolve this exercise
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<Flerex> I can't think an alternative. What would you guys do? If you have to come with the right combination for an array of 5 elements that can be either R, G, B or W? The only thing I came up with is to first generate all the possible combinations and then check which one fits my needs
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<edwin> do you know how to calculate the number of all possible combinations for your problem?
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<Flerex> I'm trying to do it atm but I'm generating more combinations than the ones that I want (I'm generating all sublists, and I want all sublists of length x)
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<edwin> you should probably check a good algorithms or combinatorics book on how to generate them, once you have your combinations you could look at List.filter and the Random module in OCaml
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<Flerex> Thank you!
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<octachron> Flerex, you can also trade space for time: generate a random array, accept it if it check your condition, try another random array otherwise
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<foetus> hey la populace
<foetus> LeCaribou is there?
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<Bluddy[m]> question about Eliom/Ocsigen: I'm trying the simple demo website here (https://ocsigen.org/tuto/manual/basicwebsite#service) and when I make test.byte, I get 'Eliom: Duplicate registration of service "aaa/bbb"'. Anyone have any idea?
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<Bluddy[m]> anyone?
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<Drup> Bluddy[m]: you copied some code twice ? :/
<Drup> I mean, the error message is quite clear
<smondet> (AFAIR, ELiom can give that error when the build system -- or config file -- has tried to link a .cmo twice; that would execute the top-level `let` twice)
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<_berke_> does anyone know if there is a C (or C++) library for parsing s-expressions as produced by sexplib?