adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | Current MOOC: https://huit.re/ocamlmooc | OCaml 4.04.0 release notes: http://ocaml.org/releases/4.04.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<nicoo> lucasem: For what it's worth, the idiomatic thing is to define the interface for your module in a .mli file, which can declare more specific types than the ones that were infered
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<dviper> hello, has anyone here installed tsdl from opam on ubuntu xenial (16.04)?
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<dviper> Does anyone hhvae experience with tsdl?
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<hongbo_> Test from phone
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<sspi> I'm executing code within a toplevel created with js_of_ocaml which is nice, but also rather slow - I was wondering if there were ways to make the execution faster
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<Drup> sspi: compiling it ? ^^'
<sspi> Drup: ah right, I mean evaluating it
<sspi> and yes compiling is way faster... but not feasible in this case
<sspi> in this case I want to execute the code in the browser
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<flux> I guess ocamlnat doesn't work with js_of_ocaml..
<flux> I guess bucklescript isn't any faster, if it supports toplevel at all..
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<Drup> sspi: what's the use case ?
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<def`> bucklescript must be very fast.
<def`> You leverage the browser js compiler.
<def`> The point is not ocamlnat, it is to remove as much interpretation layers as possible.
<flux> but wouldn't need the equivalent of ocamlnat? to have the javascript-toplevel compile native javascript?
<Drup> (for the record, jsoo's toplevel is basically the compiler, follow by feeding to the browser, it's not a real interpreter)
<sspi> the use case is running OCaml examples within the browser for educational purposes
<def`> Drup: that sounds good, I wonder why it is slow then.
<Drup> def`: if you run each phrase once and doesn't cache, it might not trigger the JIT enough ?
<sspi> oh wow, I just tried Firefox - and it was super fast :-/
<sspi> (I tried Chrome initially)
<sspi> hmm let me try a separate instance of Chrome
* def` not surprised :P
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<sspi> right, I guess I know my mistake within Chrome
<sspi> which was keeping the inspector open
<def`> cool
<reynir> heh
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<lucasem> nicoo: I know this is way late, but thanks! I definitely prefer using mli headers than putting types all over random places in my codebase.
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<nicoo> lucasem: You are welcome
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<companion_cube> !multicore
<ocabot_> done.
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<lapinot> \/!\ this is an absolutely serious question: now that i have quite some ocaml experience and that i discovered haskell, i wonder what the arguments in favour of ocaml are.. What stuff does ocaml get better?
<lapinot> for now i can think of the module/functor system but for me functors and type-classes are just 2 different ways to do the same kind of thing
<Drup> lapinot: I guess it depends on your sensibility
<Drup> I find OCaml a lot more productive
<lapinot> Drup: in what way? you mean that you get things done faster?
<Drup> Yes, lazyness by default make thinking about the semantics/perf profile of your program much harder, and I dislike side-effects-by-monads quite intensely.
<companion_cube> for pure algorithmic with decent performance, OCaml lies in a sweet spot for me: predictible performances, expressive enough for writing most algos concisely
<Drup> (also, the more I work on various things, the more I like module systems that allow you to enforce and manipulate abstraction boundaries)
<lapinot> indeed, i had forgotten about lazyness
<lapinot> Drup: actually you can include (or not) what you want in a haskell module if i'm right
<Drup> Abstraction boundaries allow you to enforce so many properties nicely, and separate subsystems, it's incredibly useful. I lack that in all non-ML languages
<Drup> lapinot: abstraction in haskell is quite flawed
<Drup> (typeclasses are inherently non modular)
<Drup> (I'm talking about datatype abstraction here, not functional abstraction)
<lapinot> indeed, indeed.. why are typeclasses not modular? in the rare cases where you have different instances for the same class on a type you can specify of which one you're talking i think
<Drup> look up orphan instances :p
<Drup> sure, you can annotate everything .. that doesn't mean it's nice
<lapinot> oh indeed, i read up on that topic about rust
<Drup> in general, the design implies a single gigantic namespace that contains all the typeclasses in the universe
<Drup> which is fundamentally a non-modular thing
<Drup> (modular implicits are much better in that regard)
<lapinot> but isn't using modules (and that profusion of somewhat boilerplate Make(SomeThing)) just a big annotation of what instance we are using?
<Drup> that's a different problem. You are talking about encoding type classes in functors
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<Drup> For some things, functors are better, for other it's worse. depends of the granularity of your problem
<companion_cube> (see, e.g., ocamlgraph)
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<Drup> There are very few (real) OCaml programs that contains a significant amount of functors instanciation compared to the amount of non-functor code
<Drup> (the same can certainly not be said about typeclass type annotations :p)
<lapinot> the common use of functors is that right? I have myself mostly defined functors that contain some types and primitives specific to that types to abstract a bigger construction (for example a container), this is the typical usecase of a typeclass
<Drup> (the type-class is useful too, that's why people want modular implicits :p)
<lapinot> companion_cube: gonna take a look
<Drup> typeclass style*
<lapinot> wow, the paper on modular implicits is sexy
<lapinot> what are we waiting for? :)
<Drup> it's not easy to implement
<lapinot> i guess the hard part is the "implicit search space"
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