<flux>
there was a related link in reddit.com/r/ocaml recently as well I think..
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<reynir>
what's telkkarista
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<ngWalrus>
from television
<ngWalrus>
or from tv rather
<ngWalrus>
I assume it was a site/api to check for tv guides
<flux>
it was a now-defunct site that provided the finnish tv-channels over internet
<ngWalrus>
I'll have to give this a shot
<ngWalrus>
looking at the telkkarista code it looks like a pretty good match
<ngWalrus>
maybe with some luck I can replace the nodejs monstrosity I'm having to work with right now
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<flux>
I like the end of endpoints.ml the most :)
<ngWalrus>
I also like how most of the existing functions in the codebase are at least 2-3 times longer than endpoints.ml
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<freyr>
Quick Lwt question: documentation says that `If one of the threads fails, then join l will fails with the same exception as the first one to terminate`. Does that mean that join will terminate only after all threads terminate or should it terminate also if one of the threads fails
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<mrvn>
freyr: join will raise the exception the thread failed with
<mrvn>
freyr: From the wording I would say it still waits for all of them but raises the exception of the first one to fail.
<freyr>
@mrvn: Ok, I see, thanks. I was confused why it continues other threads after thread failure
<mrvn>
join sounds dangerous to me. What about the second thread that failed? Is that exception lost?
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<mrvn>
choose or nchoose seems saner
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<freyr>
Yeah, join feels unreliable in most cases while threads could fail (or at least lwt should not have included Fail as lwt state, async feels saner to me)
<freyr>
async's approach*
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<mrvn>
smondet[m]: That's not realy what I mean. That just uses shared memory as transport layer with a serialize and deserialize function on both ends that I have to write myself. I was thinking about something that uses ppx or so to get the structure of the type and manages them directly in shared memory.
<mrvn>
somethign with zerocopy
<Drup>
you could probably do something like that with cstruct
<Drup>
or with one of the zero copy serialization formats (binprot/protobuf)
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<mrvn>
Drup: I was thinking to start with sexp but cstruct makes more sense I guess. thx.
<Drup>
Given that the GC will not run on the shared memory part, I would use the most flat data representation possible, which cstruct is decent at
<mrvn>
yeah. every value should be a single blob with no pointers outside the blob.
<mrvn>
I think I will just custom build something with cstruct. I don't need arbitrary caml values, just a handfull of messages that I can define as c structs. (even better as c structs since most of the workers are C code).
<orbitz>
Anyone here making heavy use of ppx_deriving.* here? I'm wondering if your experience has been positive? Seems like it might be safe ppx to use until we get implicits (assuming we do)
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<smondet[m]>
orbitz: yes overall positive experience; minus the fact that when a new version of OCaml is out you may have to wait for the ppx'es to realease a new version (that's being worked on by def` )
<orbitz>
I'm thinking of making use of show, eq, and ord
<orbitz>
those seem lik the highest leverage ones
<companion_cube>
and yojson
<orbitz>
I dont' really use yojson
<companion_cube>
ah, well
<companion_cube>
if you do serialization it's very useful
<orbitz>
I can imaine
<orbitz>
I'm not super into automatically generated serializes from types but I can see they speed osme things up
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<mrvn>
I think over time the ppx interface will become more stable and not need fixes every time.
<orbitz>
I'm hoping implicit modules if they happen solve most of the things I'd be interested in ppx for
<companion_cube>
well, implicits are not going to generate code for you
<companion_cube>
even Haskell has both typeclasses (~ implicits) and `derive` (~ ppx_deriving)
<mrvn>
anyone used ppx to generate code for methods of a class?
<companion_cube>
I think "visitors" might
<companion_cube>
(well, it generates classes, if that's your question)
<mrvn>
not quite. I have the class. I want to create/modify annotated methods
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<companion_cube>
humpf.
<companion_cube>
no idea then.
<mrvn>
I need the name of the class, the self type and self name. Somehow then you have to handle somewhere around 30 different types and tons of indirections and so and I got lost in all that jungle.
<Drup>
what are you trying to do with the self type ?
<mrvn>
Drup: annotate the method I'm creating
<mrvn>
or coercion.
<mrvn>
coersion?
<mrvn>
however you spell it.
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<mrvn>
Drup: The end goal is for the Qt5 bindings to have basically class Foo = object external bla : unit = "foo__bla_stub" end
<Drup>
wouldn't you be better off with some ctypes-style mini-DSL to represent the C++ classes ?
<mrvn>
How would I tell ocaml about the inheritance between the classes?
<mrvn>
i.e. I can pass a QButton to a function that expects a QWidget.
<Drup>
abstract types, just like in ctypes
<mrvn>
Drup: won't type check. QButton.t and QWidget.t would be different types.
<Drup>
ah, you want subtyping
<mrvn>
Drup: Currently I have ocaml objects and a widgets is passed as object that has an as_widget method.
<Drup>
then phantom types maybe ?
<mrvn>
QButton has that so "show_widget button" just works.
<Drup>
you seem to want the object typing
<Drup>
you have no reason to use the objects semantics
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<mrvn>
Drup: yeah, phantom types would work for the typing.
<mrvn>
don't remember where I run into problems with that though.
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<mrvn>
Drup: Personally I think GUIs are the best use case of OO. It just makes sense that I can say button#setEnabled true
<mrvn>
"Widget.setEnabled button true" just isn't the same. Then I have to know where setEnabled is actually declared and if it gets overridden in any of the subtypes.
<pmetzger>
Are you manually writing these bindings or are you parsing C++ to help generating them?
<mrvn>
pmetzger: currently manually. Parsing doesn't work since the c++ code doesn't show how ownership of pointers changes. Some methods take ownership, some release it, some share it.
<pmetzger>
could you figure that out from walking the C++ itself? libclang has ocaml bindings...
<pmetzger>
or is it just llvm that does? I can't remember.
<mrvn>
pmetzger: that would mean transforming c++ code into linear types. don't think I can do that.
<mrvn>
Probably easier to write some rules to guess. Like methods starting with "take" return ownership. And if there is a "takeFoo" then "insertFoo" steals ownership.
<pmetzger>
and one could override them for things where it isn't correct.
<mrvn>
pmetzger: at which point I would like to use ppx to just take some annotations and generate the stub code for me.
<pmetzger>
generating code is nicer than having to write it of course. :)
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<orbitz>
companion_cube: how does one use ppx_deriving.show with CCMap?
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<companion_cube>
heh, humm, there's a print function in it
<companion_cube>
I' not sure there's a way of automating it 100% though
<orbitz>
Can I tell .show to use the print function for that part of my type?
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<companion_cube>
yes!
<companion_cube>
[@printer some_fun] or something
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<orbitz>
companion_cube: thanks!
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<hashpuppy>
yesterday i asked why code generation was needed for yojson and the answer was because ocaml doesn't support runtime types. how does code generation and ppx solve this problem? does it create its own version of runtime types and then gives us an interface to make operating with it more friendly?
<orbitz>
hashpuppy: ppx and freinds are compile-time
<orbitz>
hashpuppy: ppx is a metaprogramming tool
<mrvn>
code generation allows serialization functions to be generated automatically.
<companion_cube>
(so it's more efficient than runtime types, actually)
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<orbitz>
But you can't do some things
<hashpuppy>
all i want to be able to do is say here's a record of this type. i want to fetch some data from a url at runtime and parse that data into that record. then use the record with its types
<mrvn>
you can always tag types with runtime infos.
<companion_cube>
mrvn: ‽
<hashpuppy>
in scala const model = parse(rawJson).extract[Model]; println(model.hello)
<companion_cube>
hashpuppy: well, write your record with [@@deriving yojson]
<companion_cube>
then you get record_of_json, end of story
<hashpuppy>
cool. thanks. i guess i should read about deriving and ppx, right?
<orbitz>
The documentation on ppx_deriving is kind of weak. But the yojson example is in the README
<companion_cube>
orbitz: really? I like this readme!
<orbitz>
Actually, you're right.
<orbitz>
The Plugin: make documentation is outdatedthough. There is create and make and create takes the unit and make doens't. Not sure the point
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<orbitz>
companion_cube: do you know how to use [@printer but with a recursive datatype?
<companion_cube>
same?
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<companion_cube>
ah, wait
<orbitz>
the pp is not defined
<orbitz>
i think.
<companion_cube>
it should be, actually
<companion_cube>
it's in the scope of the recursive function
<companion_cube>
so you can call it
<orbitz>
Hrmmm
<orbitz>
companion_cube: so if I have "module SMap = CCMap.Make(String);;" what am I doing wrong here: type t = int SMap.t [@printer SMap.pp CCString.print pp] [@@deriving show];;
<orbitz>
Actually that is clearly wrong
<orbitz>
minimal testcase fail
<companion_cube>
let pp = SMap.pp CCFormat.string CCFormat.int
<companion_cube>
will be simpler
<orbitz>
type t = | A | B of int SMap.t [@printer SMap.pp CCString.print pp] [@@deriving show];;
<companion_cube>
(it's hard to use deriving on types defined elsewhere, especially if they are opaque)
<orbitz>
Is the actual situation I have
<companion_cube>
why is that an int, not a t?
<orbitz>
Ack! fail again, one sec
<orbitz>
when i change int to t it works, hrmm
<companion_cube>
:D
<orbitz>
Ohhh
<orbitz>
I'm a dummy
<orbitz>
All my fault!
<orbitz>
Thanks
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<rgrinberg>
anyone have an example of a travis setup with multiple opam packages out of 1 repo?
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