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<rgr[m]>
tizoc: do you mean Location.raise_errorf?
<rgr[m]>
oh sorry, just saw that correction
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<rgr[m]>
Surprising that you don't get the message, the printer for that exception is being registered in the same module
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<tizoc>
rgr[m]: who (lib or program) is in charge of handling printing of the exception? I get the same in both merlin and build (with jbuilder) output
<tizoc>
this is with ocaml 4.0.6 and jbuilder beta19 btw (everything else is current version)
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<rgr[m]>
tizoc: pretty sure compiler-libs is in charge of printing this one.
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<tizoc>
rgr[m]: thank you, will do tomorrow after writing a small example to reproduce it, wasn't sure if it was my fault or a bug or where to report it
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<bartholin>
"The final flush is not technically required, since the program ends after that instruction, at which point all remaining output will be flushed anyway, but the explicit flush is nonetheless good practice." -- https://dev.realworldocaml.org/imperative-programming.html
<bartholin>
I thought output was flushed everytime there is an endline.
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<Armael>
w
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<Kalpatitoo>
hi, i have the following folder architecture : https://pastebin.com/PpaMvggL (basically, a main folder, with a "sub" and a "tools" folder)
<Kalpatitoo>
when in sub, i can run "jbuilder runtest" or "jbuilder build" without problem, even when it's referring tools
<Kalpatitoo>
however, when i try to do so from the main folder
<Kalpatitoo>
I get "module Sub doesn't exist" or "module Tools doesn't exist"
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<Kalpatitoo>
(the jbuild are only a library declaration with the associated name, the libraries they use, and their modules)
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<Kalpatitoo>
ok, so i had to put public_names, and to do so, i had to create dummy .opam files
<Kalpatitoo>
(i don't understand why the .opam files are required, but eh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
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<elfring>
There is the OCaml module “Buffer”. Does it support the in-place modification of stored characters anyhow?
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<octachron>
no
<elfring>
octachron: This is a pity. - Can such functionality (similar to the function “set” from the OCaml module “Bytes”) ever be added for better buffer adjustments?
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<octachron>
I don't think this functionality is needed at all
<elfring>
I am looking again for ways to enclose a character (or text) by other strings.
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<silenc3r>
hi! Which std lib replacement should I use as a beginner? Containers or Base?
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<mrvn>
huh? Core or batteries
<Drup>
mrvn: stop living in 2005 ;)
<companion_cube>
:D
<zozozo>
silenc3r: it depends on whether you want to have compatibility with the stdlib
<mrvn>
Drup: I'm getting old
<silenc3r>
I wrote a simple program using Base and Stdio, then rewrote it using Containers. What I liked about Base the most was named arguments in many functions but even with Stdio I found IO functions lacking, e.g. I had to resort to `Core.Sys.rename` for simple file renaming. Containers had more useful functions but I found it less enjoyable to work with.
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<Drup>
silenc3r: both are okay, it boils down to personal choice and which ecosystem you are more interested in
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<silenc3r>
I meant `Caml.System.rename`
<steenuil>
the stdlib has labeled versions of a lot of modules
<Drup>
(we tend to prefer containers around here, but that's just because companion_cube is lurking)
<silenc3r>
`Caml.Sys.rename` damnit
<companion_cube>
yes, because I'm so mean to people who don't use containers ^^
<companion_cube>
silenc3r: I like your approach of trying before choosing
<pmetzger>
I have personally found the plethora of standard libraries confusing. I started using Core when learning with Real World OCaml and reverted to using the normal standard library because the documentation for things like Core was just not good enough.
<companion_cube>
well janestreet is responsible for half of them, blame them :D
<companion_cube>
core, core_kernel, base
<pmetzger>
The documentation for the supplied standard library isn't what it could be, but it is sufficiently better that it made a difference for me.
<silenc3r>
I also tried to use Gen with Containers in hope to achieve similar functionality to Python generators but I guess it's too advanced topic for me right now
<silenc3r>
Drup: what's the ecosystem you speak of?
<companion_cube>
pmetzger: I like the stdlib, actually, I just find it's not sufficient :3
<Drup>
janestreet libraries tend to build on base/core(_kernel), so if you are going to use those a lot, well, ..
<Drup>
pmetzger: batteries/containers are well documented
<Drup>
better than the stdlib, imho
<steenuil>
question about dune/jbuilder: I have this library with a somewhat convoluted build process that I was trying to get to work with jbuilder, I kind of succeeded but it's kind of messy and I was wondering whether it was possible to reduce the jank
<steenuil>
there's the main library, with a few modules that are used somewhat pervasively, then there's a sort of compiler that turns files written in a DSL into OCaml, and there's a few command line tools to make some tasks easier
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<steenuil>
the problem is that one of the modules in the library is supposed to be generated with one of the command line tools from a file written in the DSL.
<companion_cube>
you can specify custom rules and dependencies in jbuilder, it's just going to be some work I think
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<silenc3r>
one more quiestion about Base-Containers: I have this type declaration in my mli file (using Base): `type t = (string, dir_prop, String.comparator_witness) Map.t` how do I define equivalent type using Containers? I define it as `module SMap = CCMap.Make(String); type t = dir_prop SMap.t` in my ml file but complier doesn't allow me to do the same in mli file
<steenuil>
yeah, but I can't make the command line tools depend on only part of the library if they're in a different folder with a different jbuild file
<companion_cube>
module SMap : CCMap.S wth type key = string
<steenuil>
I managed to somewhat make it work by splitting the library into the parts that are needed by the tools and the rest, but it feels messy
<companion_cube>
or, more accurate: `module SMap : module type of CCMake.Make(String)`
<companion_cube>
steenuil: sounds like it's going to be messy in any case, right?
<steenuil>
...yeah, I guess
<silenc3r>
companion_cube: It works, thanks!
<companion_cube>
silenc3r: the second one is a bit more verbose but it makes SMap compatible with other instantiations of the functor (the type would be the same)
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<Drup>
silenc3r: you can also just do "type t = dir_prop CCMap.Make(String).t"
<Drup>
(in the mli at least)
<Drup>
companion_cube: is the a reason you don't have Map and Set submodules in String/Int/... ?
<companion_cube>
in containers? not particularly
<companion_cube>
well, avodiing mutual deps and bloat, but well
<silenc3r>
I think I'll go with Containers for now. I wish it used more named arguments though, as I find them to improve readability and flexibility but I guess it's done that way to maintain compatability with original std lib.
<Drup>
silenc3r: most modules have a "Label" variant
<Drup>
CCListLabels, CCArrayLabels, etc
<Drup>
(same as the stdlib, really)
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<silenc3r>
Drup: let me check it...
<silenc3r>
Drup: I may be missing something but the two modules you listed are the only ones with Label variant in Containers
<companion_cube>
variants are an annoying problem ---
<silenc3r>
I can't find CCStringLabels or CCMapLabels
<Drup>
hm, true
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<companion_cube>
someone opened an issue about StringLabels recently, yes :/
<companion_cube>
as for Map, I'm less convinced that labels are useful
<steenuil>
would it be bothersome to have more module variants with labels?
<companion_cube>
well it's more work to maintain and write
<companion_cube>
if someone wants to write CCStringLabels (which is 100% a matter of writing the .mli, as the ml would be a one liner), it'd be welcome
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<pmetzger>
By the way, we now also have a discord, though I'm not sure if it is actually superior to IRC. https://discord.gg/TMBQcs
<Drup>
pmetzger: you missed the debate yesterday evening :p
<companion_cube>
oh dear
<companion_cube>
well I suppose I won't be on ocamllabs slack for much longer either
<pmetzger>
What was the argument?
<pmetzger>
Mostly I want just one place where if I pipe up there will be people around to talk to.
<companion_cube>
discuss.ocaml.org ? :D
<pmetzger>
I don't love IRC but I hate the umpteen million different Electron chat apps I have.
<pmetzger>
discuss isn't real time :(
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<companion_cube>
ah, for real time, right
<pmetzger>
I never would have requested a pullup of some changes I made if I hadn't been chatting with Drup in real time.
<companion_cube>
well I dislike proprietary or electron based stuff, too :3
<Drup>
pmetzger: that was one of my argument against discuss, the other being that discuss itself has many shortcoming
<companion_cube>
matrix seems like the nicest modern alternative
<pmetzger>
Really I wish someone would develop a _protocol_ for real time chat and a bunch of alternative implementations.
<pmetzger>
I tried Matrix with Riot and it was quite slow.
<Drup>
pmetzger: matrix is a protocole, you can use many clients
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<pmetzger>
It was the server that was slow I'm sure, not Matrix.
<pmetzger>
but it seemed like the easiest one to use.
<Drup>
oh, really ?
<Drup>
that seem surprising
<pmetzger>
I agree, it does seem surprising.
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<pmetzger>
It might also have just been some scaling issue since the Tezos chat room had an insane number of people in it.
<pmetzger>
Or it might have been something else entirely.
<companion_cube>
right now making a new protocol would only fragment further
<companion_cube>
I suppose xmpp should be nice theoretically, but clients suck
<Drup>
companion_cube: that ship as sailed, it's not going to come back
<companion_cube>
Drup: like OCaml itself? :D
<companion_cube>
(as a change for popularity)
<Drup>
companion_cube: well, no. OCaml doesn't have the backlog of hundreds of XEP specs and design by a international distributed comitee
<pmetzger>
XMPP was a good idea but was messy, and the main people behind it got bought out by Cisco which ultimately didn't care. The tech is still what drives WhatsApp but they run an isolated XMPP cloud.
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<Drup>
pmetzger: lot's of people run isolated xmpp clouds
<pmetzger>
yup.
<companion_cube>
Drup: OCaml has the backlog of retrocompatibility, it's also a kind of burden
<Drup>
companion_cube: not nearly on that scale
<companion_cube>
just think of how nice it'd be to slightly alter the syntax :/
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<pmetzger>
wow. other people said that matrix/riot was slow for them in that conversation Drup linked to.
<Drup>
anyway, as I said, that ship as sailed (or sunk). Matrix is the new hot thing in decentralized IM now :)
<Drup>
pmetzger: he was talking about the web client
<Drup>
but, I mean, it's a web client
<companion_cube>
I'm a bit worried about the scalability of matrix, tbh, but it's not like there are other solutions
<pmetzger>
Everything is now a web client. Electron is web clients vaguely repackaged for the desktop.
<companion_cube>
#yay
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<companion_cube>
web clients with a proprietary protocol hosted in the cloud
<companion_cube>
just like slack
<pmetzger>
Clearly we need OCamlChat. Strongly typed messages. All conversations compiled in advance. If the other party isn't expecting a message of that type, you get a compile time error.
<companion_cube>
wire protocol based on biniou
<Haudegen>
What does the prefix "labl" in "lablgtk", "labltk", "lablqml", ... mean?
<pmetzger>
servers running on Mirage hosted on a combination of Raspberry Pis and VAX-11/780s.
<pmetzger>
I've wondered what "labl" means myself.
<octachron>
Haudegen, label
<companion_cube>
I would love a distributed chat that I can host on a raspi, honestly
<companion_cube>
(I mean for which a node could fit on a raspi)
<Haudegen>
octachron: Oh. Like "twittr". Cool. :)
<pmetzger>
Actually I would too.
<pmetzger>
I had this idea a while ago that it would be nice to have a distributed secure mix network running on RPis with an IM and email layer on top.
<pmetzger>
maybe file transfer.
<Drup>
companion_cube: and discuss doesn't even support bridges
<pmetzger>
Why "label tk" or "label gtk" though. that's just as mysterious.
<Drup>
I mean, it's really the worst citizen you could think of
<companion_cube>
discuss is more a mailing list alternative
<Drup>
discord*
<companion_cube>
ahhhh
<companion_cube>
yes, right
<pmetzger>
btw, does labltk work these days? I imagine it must because Coq still uses it for CoqIDE?
<companion_cube>
surely
<companion_cube>
Drup: slack doesn't support bridges anymore either :/
<pmetzger>
I have to confess I don't love discuss that much but it's better than many things. (I'm old and still like mailing lists for many sorts of discussions but discuss seems like a nice thing to have.)
<pierpal>
Haudegen: like caml ;)
<Drup>
companion_cube: weirdly, it's still running
<companion_cube>
pmetzger: you can turn email notifications for discuss
<Haudegen>
pierpal: Ah!
<companion_cube>
Drup: yeah weird indeed, but I expect them to cut it soon
<Drup>
pmetzger: I consume discuss mainly as a mailing list myself
<Drup>
there is a few option to tweak, and it works quite well
<Drup>
the threading is even better than in the web version, because you have proper sub-discussions
<pmetzger>
I kind of want Usenet back, frankly. :|
<companion_cube>
+1 @ Drup
* Drup
offers a comb and a `screen` manual to pmetzger, so that he can groom is beard in a proper multi-terminal unixy environment.
* pmetzger
is too old.
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<Drup>
I highly doubt it :p
<pmetzger>
My first real computer was a PDP-8. ASR-33 teletype terminal.
<Drup>
pmetzger: so what ? ^^'
<pmetzger>
I sometimes feel tired and ancient. :|
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<pmetzger>
Anyway, this is one of the reasons I miss Usenet.
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<octachron>
pmetzger, the label name is not so much mysterious when one looks at the authors of both labltk/gtk and of OLabl
<pmetzger>
I hadn't heard of OLabl...
<moolc>
pmetzger: you being old and not having heard of OLabl makes my own age incalculable
<pmetzger>
I have only used OCaml since last fall.
<pmetzger>
I'm a total OCaml newb.
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<silenc3r>
What testing library should I use? Preferably something with good error messages and easy to use (I like Python's pytest). qtest?
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<Drup>
silenc3r: qtest is for property testing. If you want to write unit tests, use "alcotest"
<moolc>
hmm.. according to groups.ggl my first message to caml.ml was on 10/10/00 cool
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<silenc3r>
Drup: isn't that qcheck? I thought qtest is general testing library. I skimmed alcotest code examples on github and it looked quite complcated. In contrast qtest's comment annotation tests look quite simple.
<Drup>
oh
<Drup>
right
<Drup>
yes.
<Drup>
companion_cube: isn't qtest deprecated in favor of ppx fancier things now ?
<pmetzger>
for what it's worth, for the last few hours, IRC has been busy, discord has been silent.
<Drup>
pmetzger: well, obviously. You can't expect a channel to fill overnight
<pmetzger>
Drup: I think we might want to do a few more passes of cleanup on sedlex before a 2.0 release. I'd like to improve the docs and make sure the new API is right. Thoughts?
<Drup>
pmetzger: agreed
<pmetzger>
69 people on the discord, FWIW.
<Gurkenglas>
I've been trying to build Ocaml for a while and not sure of the current state of matters. "make world > log.world 2>&1" currently fills log.world with a report of entering and leaving directories with nothing much happening. ocamlc -v currently does not find a directory. What should I do?
<Gurkenglas>
*while and am not sure
<pmetzger>
What platform are you on?
<pmetzger>
(that was to Gurkenglas.)
<octachron>
pmetzger, OLabl was the branch of OCaml which introduced labelled argument and was merged with OCaml around 3.0
<Gurkenglas>
pmetzger, ssh'd onto a university linux server
<Gurkenglas>
(putty, more precisely)
<pmetzger>
You can't use your own box?
<octachron>
Gurkenglas, did you install OCaml aka "make install" ?
<Gurkenglas>
pmetzger, my own box uses Windows
<Drup>
alternative question: why aren't you using opam ? :)
<Gurkenglas>
Ah, I thought everything from make bootstrap is optional.
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<Gurkenglas>
Drup, opam requires Ocaml
<moolc>
because opam requires external SAT solver that isn't available on my distro
<Drup>
opam can build ocaml for you
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<Gurkenglas>
Drup, make cold requires lib-exts, make lib-exts requires ocaml
<moolc>
and in general those language package managers suck donkey balls
<octachron>
moolc, opam 2 does not require external SAT solver anymore
<pmetzger>
opam is really really useful. I wouldn't try to use the ocaml ecosystem without it.
<Gurkenglas>
I am planning to install opam once I've got ocaml.
<pmetzger>
I'm a macports maintainer and I generally use opam for all my ocaml stuff past bootstrap.
<pmetzger>
Gurkenglas: there are ocaml packages for windows.
<Drup>
Gurkenglas: hm, I remember "make cold" being able to build ocaml as well
<moolc>
it takes ~45 seconds to build ocaml the compiled on my machine.. i wonder how much opam will take
<pmetzger>
Gurkenglas: The main problem with using someone else's server without privs is you can't just use the package manager for installing ocaml the first time...
<moolc>
*the compiler
<Gurkenglas>
pmetzger, after ocaml I was going to install coq and coqhammer, the latter of which failed to work on windows
<moolc>
octachron: good to know
<Drup>
moolc: "I didn't try but I have a preconceived opinion that it's shit" is not an interesting argument.
<pmetzger>
Gurkenglas: get a VM at Digital Ocean or Linode?
<Gurkenglas>
Drup, lib-exts is apparently only required on some systems
<moolc>
Drup: it's shit because i only managed to build it once and it's not available for my distro, not good enough of an argument too?
<Drup>
Gurkenglas: hmm, okay
<moolc>
Drup: and don't get me wrong i'm not singling out opam here, they are all shit cabal,stack,cargo,pip you name it
<Drup>
Gurkenglas: I don't know about that. Anyway, "./configure && make world.opt && make install" should do what you need, no ?
<Gurkenglas>
Drup, or rather only if you don't have lib-ext yet
<Gurkenglas>
(forget all the s parts of lib-exts)
<Drup>
moolc: so as I said, you haven't tried. Can you please let us help Gurkenglas instead of poisoning the discussion ? Thanks.
<companion_cube>
Drup: I'm not particularly a fan of ppx based stuff, so I'm keeping qtest for a while
<Drup>
Gurkenglas: well, the point of lib-ext is that opam will build it
<Drup>
as part of "make cold"
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<Drup>
I think this questions are better asked on the opam bug tracker though
<pmetzger>
Also there's virtualbox so you can have your own linux machine on your windows machine...
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<Gurkenglas>
I tried that, I remember much pain
<Gurkenglas>
Drup, I think the relevant error line from make cold is "tar (child): ../extlib-1.5.3.tar.gz: Funktion open fehlgeschlagen: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden"
<Drup>
ah, Yes
<companion_cube>
classic error message (¿)
<Drup>
Gurkenglas: I remember something like that where extlib archives were not available anymore. You might want to report that one. You should get a solution quickly.
<Drup>
(thankfully, opam 2.0 dropped clingo and aspcud)
<Gurkenglas>
Will these DigitalOcean/Linode VMs cost per time after signup or per uptime?
<moolc>
anyhow in my experience with cabal relying on distro provided language packager is recipe for disaster
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<pmetzger>
Gurkenglas: Linode and Digital Ocean have stuff that costs like $5 a month flat/
<pmetzger>
Unless you bring the box down in which case you pay less.
<Drup>
why would you use a distant box for dev though ? :/
<pmetzger>
Drup: he can't seem to work with virtual box it seems.
<companion_cube>
I wish there was [@@ocaml.nolabels] :s
<pmetzger>
companion_cube: ?
<Drup>
that seems dangerous
<companion_cube>
I'm just stuck because some of my qtests need -nolabels, and I don't think dune's support for generated tests supports that
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<Gurkenglas>
ocamlc -v works before cd .. but not after, what do I do?
<pmetzger>
Gurkenglas: Explain more?
<pmetzger>
post a screenshot or transcript to a pastebin perhaps?
<moolc>
Gurkenglas: what does `echo $PATH' say?
<Gurkenglas>
No, the username that's displayed in ~every file path might identify me <.<
<Gurkenglas>
moolc, ocaml's not in it
<moolc>
Gurkenglas: does it contain '.'?
<Gurkenglas>
moolc, yes
<Gurkenglas>
So that's why it didn't work after the make clean
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<Gurkenglas>
I assumed ./configure would put it in the path, and wasn't disabused of that because it worked until make clean
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<Gurkenglas>
make extlib fails by not finding extlib-1.5.3.tar.gz. What do I do?
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<pmetzger>
I think you're not experienced enough at building things under Linux to make it practical to go this route. You'll find it difficult to sustain once it is all built, and your real desire is to run Coq apparently.
<pmetzger>
I'd make my peace with virtualbox, install ubuntu, install opam, and do "opam install coq" and be happy.
<pmetzger>
Trying to do this on a box where you can't do things as root means you can't use the automation others have built for you and you're not an experienced linux sysadmin.
<pmetzger>
I'd pick a simpler path.
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