adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.07.0 release notes: https://caml.inria.fr/pub/distrib/ocaml-4.07/notes/Changes | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml | Due to ongoing spam, you must register your nickname to talk on the channel
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<xvilka> hm? what happened?
<xvilka> why the scheduled upgrade opam 2.0 wasn't performed?
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<Leonidas> xvilka: opam 2.0 final release caused the end of the world and a rift in time and you're on the side of reality where opam 2.0 final never happened. Don't ask whats on the side where the release happened.
<Leonidas> Ulrar: we used Debian packages and are very happy to replace them with OPAM & Docker.
<Ulrar> Leonidas: Doesn't that mean you have to install opam everywhere ?
<Ulrar> 'cause I'm not going to go install opam on 800 machines, I can just use the distribution's package manager, it's so much simpler
<Leonidas> Ulrar: no, we just ship Docker images. This also has the advantage of not having to install Debian everywhere.
<Leonidas> (along with distribution version struggles like which glibc version you use, whether it is Debian or Ubuntu etc)
<Ulrar> ah yeah, but we don't use docker
<Ulrar> All of that is fine, we already have a ci system which handles package generation
<Leonidas> I like Debian packages for how thought out the process is for maintaining them but I find it very annoying to actually write them, because there are so many moving parts of building Debian files. Makefiles/rule-files, debhelper, dh, diferent source versions, quilt, custom dh helpers etc.
<Ulrar> I agree, .deb is a terrible format
<Ulrar> I like ebuilds quite a bit
<Ulrar> But fpm makes it fairly easy to generate deb or rpm as needed with very little changes
<Leonidas> I mostly use PKGBUILD but that's erring on the other side, being simplistic to a fault.
<Leonidas> Oh, I don't know fpm.
<Ulrar> It's pretty good imho
<reynir> Leonidas: I think you should file a bug report for the opam repository. Clearly, destroying the universe is not a desirable property of a package manager.
<Ulrar> We've been using it for over a year now to ship our own php builds and other tools
<Ulrar> works great
<Leonidas> https://github.com/jordansissel/fpm#things-that-should-work would be cool if it supported OPAM
<Ulrar> And that way unattended-upgrades simply takes care of updating packages, both from the security repo and from our own internal one
<Ulrar> it would be indeed, but with a bit of shell script around it still does the job
<Ulrar> My packages are building right now, the debian ones are already done and installed
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<Ulrar> So I have something weird, I get "No package matches ipaddr" from opam but only on centos. Could this be because aspcud doesn't exist on centos ?
<reynir> opam 1.2? You sometimes get that message when it can't satisfy the constraints
<Ulrar> Mh it used opam_installer.sh so whatever opam is installed by that, but probably yeah
<Ulrar> Any way to get the actual error if that's it ?
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<Ulrar> Is the cloud solver thing (to use instead of aspcud, since it doesn't seem to exist for centos) not up anymore ? All the links seem dead
<Ulrar> Okay that was it, using the java solver works fine. I guess that'll do
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<theblatte> how do I create a local switch in opam? "opam switch create ." fails with "The selected switch /home/jul/infer is not installed."
<theblatte> nuking ~/.opam seems to help :(
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<ruffy_> is there a way to get a static binary ?
<adrien> ocaml does static linking unless you ask for the opposite
<dmbaturin_> ruffy_: You mean not even linked against libc?
<adrien> the non static libraries usually are C libraries
<dmbaturin_> Linking of ocaml libraries is static unless specified otherwise as adrien says, so that's a non-issue. But linking a libc statically, if that's what you want, is a more interesting question.
<ruffy_> dmbaturin_: I think so yes
<ruffy_> I need to test my program on a Server
<dmbaturin_> If you are on linux, the simplest option is to link it against the oldest glibc you want to support.
<ruffy_> I get this error error while loading shared libraries: libgmp.so.10: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<ruffy_> dmbaturin_: how do I do that ?
<ruffy_> Because of this error I want to have a static binary
<dmbaturin_> Oh. Well, that's a C library, and it's not a part of libc.
<ruffy_> dmbaturin_: yes
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<dmbaturin_> You can pass options to the linker with -cclib option of ocamlopt. If GMP has static library version and documented procedure, you should be able to replicate it by wrapping it in -cclib options.
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<ruffy_> dmbaturin_: thx I will try that
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<kakadu> Folks, can you recommend some reading to clarify the meaning of `algebra` in `algebraic data types`?
<thizanne> that means "I'm not a C++ peasant"
<thizanne> but more seriously, it's not really scientific but you can see a sum type as a sum and a product type as a... product
<thizanne> (records and tuples being basically the same product types in this regard)
<thizanne> and then you kind of have the usual laws
<thizanne> like, your "zero" typed is the unhabited `type zero`
<thizanne> "one" is `type unit = ()` with one inhabitant
<octachron> and * is distributive over +, * and + are commutatives (up to bijections)
<thizanne> and a sum type like `type sum = A of something | B of zero` is kind of equivalent to `A of something`, since you can't have B _ values
<thizanne> and `unit * t` is equivalent to t
<kakadu> Yeah, I know that
<thizanne> and zero * t is zero since you can't have values
<kakadu> But there is algebra over a ring, over a field and probably more stuff
<thizanne> well that's probably why the guy came up with "algebraic" in the first place
<thizanne> I guess modern interpretations of types could involve more interesting algebraic stuff, but in this case you should probably try to read about type theories rather than trying to make an ill-defined notion forced into some "algebraic" mathematical structure
<Drup> Actually, I wonder where the name comes from
<thizanne> (well I was going to hl Drup for more relevant answers)
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<Drup> It's true the name is a bit made up. It probably either evolved for some early theoretical work or for some one who decided it sounded cool.
<companion_cube> sometimes I understand why people complain about submitting to opam-repo -_-
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<kakadu> Basically link says that ADT called that because of school algebra
<kakadu> and if we omit `a->b` it should be called `semiringic data types`
<kakadu> Btw, do you know another example with differentiation except list zipper?
<thizanne> oh the differentiation thing is nice
<xvilka> so switch is done it seems
<xvilka> \o/
<Drup> Yeah, it's a neat thing, there is a bit of litterature on that, notably by McBride
<kakadu> `The Derivative of a Regular Type is its Typeof One-Hole Contexts`? http://strictlypositive.org/diff.pdf
<thizanne> please no, I need to write my thesis.
<companion_cube> :D
<companion_cube> good luck
<kakadu> thizanne: what are you researching?
<Leonidas> did opam-repository just get switched to opam2 format?
<thizanne> kakadu: abstract interpretation under weakly consistent memory
<kakadu> `weakly consistent memory` like relaxed read-writes, promising semantics and stuff like that?
<thizanne> yes
<thizanne> but I don't have much on promising semantics, a few (sound but probably quite imprecise) ideas but no actual implementation
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<kakadu> Is it a thesis about abstract interpretation in general or are you basically trying to execute symbolically a parallel program?
<thizanne> it's a abstract interpretation thesis, not a memory models one
<thizanne> so yeah you could say that i'm trying to abstract interpret parallel programs
<thizanne> which is a bit more than symbolic execution (which coul be formalised as abstract interpretation, but I'm not sure that gives useful results)
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<Ulrar> ruffy_: Did you manage it in the end ? I have wondered too but haven't looked into it
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<discord> <mseri> Leonidas yes, today
<discord> <mseri> Opam 1.2 now is on the maintenance 1.2 branch
<Leonidas> mseri: ok. Our CI broke down and I immediately suspected it was because of this :-)
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<discord> <mseri> 😛
<discord> <mseri> I think there will be a post soon
<discord> <mseri> If you need to use opam1, point the repository to the branch 1.2 of opam-repository
<companion_cube> mseri: I forgot, are you an opam-repo maintainer?
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<Leonidas> mseri: no, not really, we can migrate to opam2 without big issues
<Leonidas> guess I'll be changing the format of some opam files but apart from that no problem :)
<Leonidas> looks like ocaml.org is down though
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