adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.08 release notes: https://caml.inria.fr/pub/distrib/ocaml-4.08/notes/Changes | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<dmbaturin> Leonidas: What that description sounded like?
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<hio> I need a CRASH course in ocaml, as fast as possible
<hio> 1 hour to expert
<hio> please advise
<aecepoglu[m]> ocaml.org, go to tutorials and skim through it
<hio> ok, tell me the best feature of ocaml, what's your favorite?
<aecepoglu[m]> I like its name
<hio> I am a non smoker actually
<bartholin> I like fun.
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<dmbaturin> You don't need to smoke to understand ML. Stuff that comes on blotted paper will do just fine. ;)
<dmbaturin> hio: https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/ocaml/ I once wrote this, though it doesn't touch modules and many other parts that are everyone's favorite.
<hio> sir may I make a suggestion: Please include minimal build instructions and project setup in any tutorial for beginners
<dmbaturin> https://blog.baturin.org/introduction-to-ocaml.html This too. Does have build instructions.
<hio> I am desperately trying to make dune build but it keeps saying: "Unknown field executable"
<hio> I copy pasted exactly the instructions from dune documentation
<dmbaturin> Paste your file here then.
<hio> Ok I was putting the lines into dune-project instead of dune
<hio> VERY confusing
<hio> if this is auto generated, it should be a hidden dotfile
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<xvilka> arghh
<xvilka> how you even write Anstrom parsers without documentation?
<xvilka> totally unintuitive
<xvilka> I am trying to write a simple parser for a superset of CSV, and spent half a day already, trying to figure how to do that with Angstrom, with no luck yet
<Drup> xvilka: you haven't used any parser generator library before, I presume ?
<Drup> parser combinator library*
<xvilka> Drup: used menhir
<xvilka> I just decided to try Angstrom, because it claims to be monadic and faster
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<Armael> faster... than other parser combinators
<xvilka> also errors are nondescriptive
<Drup> unless you want streaming/operate inside a monad, or something that is much richer than LR, you're better of with menhir
<dmbaturin> I need to try menhir's new error reporting features.
<xvilka> Drup: thx for the hint
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<xvilka> anyway, already figured the problem, as always my own fault - I wasn't checking for EOL when combining multiple rules, e.g. you need (rule1 <* eol) <$> (rule2 <* eol), etc
<xvilka> and now it is a joy to work with
<xvilka> my apologies
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<octachron> Leonidas, thanks!
<dmbaturin> octachron: What's your explanation of value restriction? :)
<Drup> dmbaturin: you mean, why it's needed ?
<Drup> hm, that's not the right reason
<dmbaturin> Drup: octachron was rumored to have a great explanation which I've never heard.
<dmbaturin> Which is why I was curious to hear.
<octachron> Drup, too much simplified?
<Drup> octachron: well, no, it's just that it's more of a side-benefit
<Drup> the real motivation is to forbid that kind of code: https://bpaste.net/show/f54134ad31a5
<Drup> if we generalized everything, we would generalize x to 'a option ref, which is unsound
<octachron> Well, yes. I am not sure I see the difference with my example?
<Drup> It's more straighforward ? :D
<Drup> It also explains the reason for the "set once" nature of week variables
<octachron> Ah sure, it is the problem with trying to mesh up together the eta-expansion and weak variable explanation in a short post.
<Drup> well, the eta expansion is kinda artificial anyway....
<Drup> (the compiler could do it for us)
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<octachron> Does that not risk to mix typechecking and semantics? For instance, a side-effect would be executed only if the return type is generalisable.
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<Drup> you need to be careful, yeah
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<Haudegen> The latest vim updates in Debian break my development setup (filetype information gets lost when changing buffer). Does anybody have a solution for this?
<oni-on-ion> emacs here
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: So you want me to switch? :)
<oni-on-ion> Haudegen, nah, just wanted to show that someone is here, altho i cant help =)
<oni-on-ion> but using emacs eyes, i'd say thats a fairly undesirable behavior, i'd check vim scripts that were changed. there might be a way to 'diff' from previous vim install
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: :) I've tried spacemacs recently. But it's ... complicated. :)
<oni-on-ion> yeh. ive never done much vim but spacemacs does look nice visually
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: The vim update contains changes in the "source" command, which reads configuration files. The problem disappears after downgrading vim. So I'm fairly sure it's the vim update.
<oni-on-ion> Haudegen, makes sense. i wonder if the configs need updating as well ?
<oni-on-ion> i am not sure the details. i wonder if there is a #vim ? or if it is specifically the ocaml configs for vim?
<oni-on-ion> myself i am using an older version of ocaml support on emacs because the newer one removes operator highlighting which i really want and need
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: Maybe. "source" is such a basic command, it'll be quite difficult to find the source of the problem.
<oni-on-ion> hmm cant trace or step through it ?
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: I don't have problems with my setup for other languages (SQL, Shell, Python, ...). There is no ticket in the merlin bug tracker. Hmmm...
<oni-on-ion> i guess here is where i can say something about emacs. (and not just that its expected behavior rarely changes from under you)
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: Everything works fine until I split the screen and change one of the buffers. The "old" buffer loses it's "filetype". I'm not sure how to debug this. Maybe someone here has already solved the problem.
<oni-on-ion> (for emacs one can run debugger as the configs is full lisp code and emacs itself is the fancy compiler/ide for it.) but i'd rather you get back to ocaml coding ^_^
<oni-on-ion> haven't heard or seen much activity for ocaml and vim. i would suggest poking into #vim channel and see if there is a simple fix
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: Emacs has it's advantages for sure. But my good old Debian stable usually doesn't betray me like this. Hmmm...
<oni-on-ion> (along with an understanding of why it broke in the first place)
<oni-on-ion> hehe. im on debian testing, i still compile emacs straight from git because the packaged one is not recent enough
<Haudegen> I've a Buster machine, no problems there. :) But it's a simpler setup. Maybe Buster hasn't got the update yet. Testing branch works differently.
<oni-on-ion> i see
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: OK, I've started harassing the Vim and Debian guys. Thanks for your support.
<oni-on-ion> awesome. i hope it works out !
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: And there is always the possibility to switch over to the church of Emacs. I've attended another Stallman speech last week, it was great. :)
<oni-on-ion> was it ? i havent heard/seen any. but several quotes i dont know much about the guy, though i've been neck deep in foss and emacs forever
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: He has very strong opinions, but he presents them in a very entertaining way. You'll start saying "GNU/Linux" (instead of "Linux") and "free software" (instead of "open source") for sure.
<companion_cube> his war on vim is a bit tiresome, though
<oni-on-ion> Haudegen, i can agree with those =)
<Haudegen> companion_cube: He has no objection to Vim, as long you use a version with a "free" license.
<oni-on-ion> (unless referring to kernel or non-free open source, ofc)
<companion_cube> well his jokes about "vi vi vi", but whatever
<Haudegen> oni-on-ion: Of course! :)
<Haudegen> companion_cube: He was asked about Vim at his speech last week, he was very forgiving. Maybe he's getting old and soft (but I don't think so).
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<Leonidas> Haudegen: are there nonfree vims? Unlike Emacsen I don't remember a proliferation of proprietary vims.
<Leonidas> neovim is mixed apache 2 / vim (for the parts that are from vim upstream)
<[rg]> is the beginners list still active?
<Leonidas> seems pretty dead. I think people have moved over to Discuss
<Leonidas> it is not linked anywhere either so finding it was tricky and there haven't been any emails in more than a year.
<[rg]> ok, can you link me to the new site Leonidas?
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<[rg]> thank you
<Leonidas> I had to login to yahoo and yahoo promptly sent me an email about an unexpected login. They are absolutely right, it is 2019 and I log in to yahoo? Who in the world would do that :D
<[rg]> lol
<[rg]> I may have asked before but which pathway?
<[rg]> janestreet has their opensource libs as well
<Leonidas> pathway?
<[rg]> in learning ocaml
<[rg]> i.e books, since some use different libs
<Leonidas> Personally I can only really recommend RWO. The others I found rather meh.
<[rg]> ok, thanks :)
<Leonidas> (And yes, RWO uses somewhat idiosyncratically Core, but having used both the stdlib and core/base I vastly prefer the latter)
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