ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: | Check also for more information
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<tankf33der> o/
<tankf33der> FYI
<Regenaxer> Hi tankf33der!
<Regenaxer> Interesting! Without central server?
<Regenaxer> SMTP
<Regenaxer> I'm quite content with DeltaChat atm
<tankf33der> yea
<tankf33der> ha
<tankf33der> pil32 and pil64 cant work under alpinelinux
<tankf33der> musl based.
<tankf33der> looks like they hang and do nothing.
<Regenaxer> oh
<tankf33der> alpi386:~# pil @lib/mike.l +
<tankf33der> ok
<tankf33der> this one works.
<tankf33der> alpi386:~# cat picolisp/lib/mike.l
<tankf33der> (bye)
<tankf33der> alpi386:~#
<tankf33der> (msg 'ok)
<tankf33der> repl is broken somehow.
<Regenaxer> Moment
<tankf33der> alpi386:~# cat picolisp/lib/mike.l
<tankf33der> (msg 'ok)
<tankf33der> (bye)
<tankf33der> alpi386:~#
<tankf33der> oops
<tankf33der> =============
<tankf33der> ### alarm ###
<tankf33der> (let N 6
<tankf33der> (wait 2000)
<tankf33der> (test 6 N)
<tankf33der> (alarm 1 (inc 'N))
<tankf33der> (test 7 N)
<tankf33der> (alarm 0) )
<tankf33der> ==============
<tankf33der> this code is doesnt work under musl!
<Regenaxer> I'm on my way home (from Dentist)
<tankf33der> ok
<tankf33der> i know aw is alpine user
<tankf33der> aw-
<tankf33der> i use edge branch (rolling releases)
<Regenaxer> ret
<Regenaxer> Hmm, strange
<tankf33der> also in repl i cant enter (== 1 1)
<tankf33der> because this is musl
<tankf33der> not libc
<Regenaxer> yeah
<Regenaxer> Not POSIX compatible?
<tankf33der> i think a very compatible.
<tankf33der> rewritten from scratch, very stable, bla-bla-bla.
<tankf33der> this edge versions will 3.11 after a year and if i reinstall 3.10 it will work as before.
<tankf33der> in repl:
<tankf33der> (== 1 1)
<tankf33der> when i enter ) cursor jump to ( and freeze.
<tankf33der> Ctrl-C helps.
<Regenaxer> yeah, some stdio issue
<tankf33der> im testing on alpinelinux for a year, only edge branch this year
<tankf33der> always worked before.
<Regenaxer> also on musl?
<tankf33der> yea
<Regenaxer> :(
<Regenaxer> I think the differences mentioned won't matter
<Regenaxer> Can you strace to see where exactly it fails?
<tankf33der> installing latest stable 3.10.2
<tankf33der> ./bin/picolisp cant enter any char
<tankf33der> pil + much better
<Regenaxer> also no echo?
<Regenaxer> bin/picolisp uses no raw mode
<Regenaxer> ie. does nothing special to stdio
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<tankf33der> thats why.
<tankf33der> i entered (== 1 1)
<Regenaxer> newselect
<Regenaxer> no idea
<Regenaxer> select() system call?
<Regenaxer> it gets timeout immediately
<Regenaxer> Maybe the arguments passed don't match somehow
<tankf33der> this is under libc.
<tankf33der> so musl
<Regenaxer> yes,, [0],
<Regenaxer> [] on musl, ie no file descriptor
<Regenaxer> [0] is stdin
<Regenaxer> So the passed arguments dont match
<Regenaxer> The C call to select
<tankf33der> check line: 221
<tankf33der> 2141 - select no longer modifies timeout on failure (or at all)
<tankf33der> now i have musl 1.1.24
<Regenaxer> "select no longer modifies timeout"
<Regenaxer> yeah
<tankf33der> alpinelinux 3.10 - 1.1.22
<tankf33der> alpinelinux 3.9 - 1.1.20
<Regenaxer> ? (not (member *TargetOS '("Linux" "Android")))
<Regenaxer> in src64/io.l
<Regenaxer> this *uses* the fact that timeout is modified
<Regenaxer> on Linux
<Regenaxer> gives better performance
<Regenaxer> see man select(2)
<Regenaxer> "On Linux, select() also modifies ..."
<Regenaxer> So musl breaks that!
<tankf33der> eh.
<Regenaxer> Same on pil32, src/io.c
<Regenaxer> #ifndef __linux__
<Regenaxer> gettimeofday(&tt,NULL);
<Regenaxer> t = tt.tv_sec*1000 + (tt.tv_usec + 500)
<Regenaxer> #endif
<Regenaxer> So this is definitely the reason
<Regenaxer> Crap!
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<tankf33der> as is
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<Regenaxer> hmm, one thing I don't understand: select() is a system call, thus handled in the kernel. How can musl mess with that?
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<beneroth> hi Regenaxer
<beneroth> musl the C library?
<Regenaxer> Hi beneroth! Yes, see discussion this morning
<tankf33der> musl is replace for libc
<Regenaxer> yeah, I know it is pselect internally on Linux
<Regenaxer> still, select() is just a glue to a system call
<Regenaxer> Seems the timing was calculated in libc and not in the kernel
<Regenaxer> Well, in fact I believe it is poll(2) intnerally
<Regenaxer> "The Linux ppoll() system call modifies its tmo_p argument."
<Regenaxer> Weird, it then says that glibc *hides* it in case of Linux
<Regenaxer> Why do they do that? It is a very useful value
<Regenaxer> Without, I need two gettimeofday ssystem call for each select/poll call
<Regenaxer> What a waste as the value seems there already!
<Regenaxer> Is there no portable way to get the timeout diff?
<Regenaxer> Without doing 3 system calls instead of one?
<Regenaxer> Why are they messing around with such basic things after decades?
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<cil_z> good afternoon
<Regenaxer> Hi cil_z!
<cil_z> hello Regenaxer
<Regenaxer> I'll answer your question in the list late
<Regenaxer> r
<Regenaxer> out at the moment
<DKordic> Good morning everyone.
<Regenaxer> Hi DKordic!
<cil_z> Hi DKordic
<cil_z> Thanks Regenaxer!
<Regenaxer> No prob :)
<Regenaxer> It is good that you are asking
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<beneroth> hi cil_z
<beneroth> hi tankf33der
<beneroth> :)
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<Regenaxer> Ah, haha, cil_z, sorry! This time the question is from Kashyap, not you :)
<cil_z> Beneroth, hello!
<cil_z> Regenaxer ;-)
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<jcowan> I operate day to day on newlib, and it's amazing how much stuff assumes glibc, usually without realizing it.
<Regenaxer> I believe
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<bitmapper> anyone online?
<Regenaxer> yess
<bitmapper> i got ersatz picolisp building with graalvm native-image
<bitmapper> it works *very* well
<Regenaxer> oracle java?
<bitmapper> graalvm is a version of the jvm that supports AOT compilation
<bitmapper> i used the open source version
<Regenaxer> Did it compile right out of the box?
<bitmapper> it did, just needed a config to help deal with the reflection
<Regenaxer> cool
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<bitmapper> going to measure properly, but from what i can tell it uses 2mb of memory
<Regenaxer> Ah, that's nice. OpenJDK grabs 600 mb or so
<bitmapper> stuck on macos, so this is my last resort :p
<Regenaxer> How do you mean "stuck on macros"?
<bitmapper> macOS
<Regenaxer> ah, haha! Sorry :)
<Regenaxer> If you wait a year or so, Pil will perhaps run on MacOS again
<Regenaxer> LLVM based
<bitmapper> the only thing is you can't call java functions from picolisp
<Regenaxer> Currently researching
<Regenaxer> You can
<bitmapper> no, i meant in this version
<bitmapper> it is literally a native version of the program, it can't JIT
<Regenaxer> In current PicoLisp you can call a JVM via piqes
<Regenaxer> It is used heavily in Android apps
<bitmapper> what's even crazier is you can intermix languages on graalvm
<bitmapper> C, Java, JS, R, Python, Ruby
<Regenaxer> I see
<bitmapper> it's a really interesting platform
<Regenaxer> Sorry, interrupt
<Regenaxer> bbl
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<Regenaxer> ret
<bitmapper> ahh!
<bitmapper> you can call java methods, but you have to add them to the reflection config
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<tankf33der> bitmapper: what i need to ersatz on graal?
<bitmapper> i'll upload the config in a second
<tankf33der> or post to mailling list?
<tankf33der> reddit?
<tankf33der> blog post?
<tankf33der> :)
<bitmapper> sure
<tankf33der> perfect
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<bitmapper> aww, ersatz picolisp is missing pr, wr, and rd
<bitmapper> i don't have the knowledge to add the missing stuff
<jcowan> And you a bitmapper, too! Read bytes and take them apart into bits, or the opposite.
<bitmapper> it's moreso that i don't know java
<jcowan> Ah.
<jcowan> On Linux, how does pil map the external bytes to internal bits, little-endian or big-endian? I suppose it's little-endian.
<bitmapper> i guess it's either ersatz with graal or minipicolisp since i'm on macos
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