ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: | Check also for more information
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<razzy> hmm, what is pico symbol. is it interpretter?
<razzy> also symbols A - Z are confusing to me.
<Regenaxer> The symbol 'pico' is the default namespace
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<razzy> Regenaxer thank you.
<razzy> i do not get it. (pretty pico) gives very weird output consiting of weird function
<Regenaxer> That's all right. The value of 'pico' is not a function but a namespace (two 'idx' trees)
<razzy> hmm.
<razzy> i will think about it.
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<Regenaxer> A namespace is just a lookup mechanism of symbols by their names
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<razzy> i will state what i want so you can understand me better. i want pick apart picolisp so i can learn. i will invest 2 days now. plan is to remove parts while rest is still working.
<Regenaxer> ok
<razzy> working on 64bit lastest "stable" release. local install. identifying easiest function to get rid of.
<Regenaxer> Better use the rolling release. "stable" is only for Debian and out of date (see recent ML post)
<Regenaxer> So in fact the rolling release is always considered most "stable"
<razzy> ok. thx.
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<razzy> if who cannot find the use of function anywhere. it is safe to just erase it right?
<Regenaxer> Not necessarily. 'who' searches only currentl 'load'ed symbols
<Regenaxer> Better search the whole installation with grep -rlw xxx
<razzy> so picolisp is not loaded at start. i would rather do tests and than run who.
<Regenaxer> Perhaps. For example, which symbol did you call 'who' with?
<razzy> all of them :)
<razzy> (all) of them
<Regenaxer> Good luck!
<razzy> many of them are not used.
<Regenaxer> You should try to understand a symbol first before you delete it
<Regenaxer> Yes, some are not used
<Regenaxer> For example which one is not necessary then?
<Regenaxer> They all are needed somewhere of course
<Regenaxer> Otherwise we would not have made the trouble to implement them ;)
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<razzy> i do not uderstand most of them. curry +hook2 pilog. would be first for erase.
<Regenaxer> What purpose do you intend by minimizing the system?
<razzy> my next aproach is automate tests, so i know when something breaks.
<Regenaxer> Did you find @lib/test.l ?
<Regenaxer> It does automated tests of most built-in functions
<razzy> i intend to learn from it.
<Regenaxer> So what is the absolute minimum? Just a console REPL?
<Regenaxer> But for automated tests you need file I/O at least
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<razzy> repl fileIO streams properties and bare minimum of functions. but i may not do all.
<razzy> tests look huge :D.
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<razzy> how do i change default pil adress in lib/el inferior-picolisp.el so i can invoke local install run-picolisp.
<beneroth> I'd change the "picolisp-program-name" variable
<razzy> thx. i still have trouble running it.
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<rick42> hello pil folks! everyone well, i hope
<Regenaxer> Hi rick42!! Sure! :)
<rick42> good to hear, Regenaxer!
<Regenaxer> Anything new?
<rick42> nah. just toiling away at work. :) traveling a lot and that means i spend more time at work, but it "keeps me out of trouble" lol
<Regenaxer> Great :)
<rick42> i saw some news yesterday that reminded me of tankf33der: project trident is switching its base OS from freebsd to void linux. :)
<rick42> since they offer a desktop system, i think they were getting tired of the freebsd slow-to-adopt newer hardware modus operandi.
<rick42> void is actually quite good. i'm still using it on one of my lappies
<Regenaxer> You yourself prefer bsd too
<Regenaxer> I see, never heard of void linux
<rick42> yes, i prefer to run freebsd and openbsd, but i have been also very happy with void linux (reminds me a bit of operating an openbsd system)
<rick42> but Regenaxer, all of those systems are too big and sophisticated for me to understand. I wonder if there is (or will be) a simpler way.
<Regenaxer> Perhaps PilOS ;)
<rick42> yes! I was thinking that
<Regenaxer> Easy to understand, but not powerful enough
<razzy> why not powerfull enough?
<Regenaxer> Allmost everything is missing (devices, network)
<razzy> is it needed? now it is living with linux
<razzy> pil ecosystem is living with linux.
<Regenaxer> We are talking about PilOS
<razzy> if it is easy and simple enough. it should grow.
<razzy> into pilos gradually
<Regenaxer> lot of work
<razzy> btw, i am also trying "compilation" by graph reduction. on some scheme. and it is taking 2 days now.
<razzy> agree on lot of work.
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<razzy> i have failed tests before i remove something
<razzy> how are they reliable.
<Regenaxer> Which one failed?
<Regenaxer> They all pass
<Regenaxer> $ ./pil lib/test.l -bye +
<Regenaxer> Takes a few secs and prints OK then
<razzy> it does not pass after i run some easy lookup.
<razzy> line 17 and second test afterwards in line 67 main.l
<razzy> some enviroments.
<razzy> funny thing is. i have more unused symbols after test and gc than before.
<Regenaxer> Sure, things are loaded for the tests
<razzy> hmm 922 symbols from 1029 are used only once. mostly in pico. which is useless
<Regenaxer> So 'zap' them, or run the tests in a separate namespace
<Regenaxer> afp
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<Regenaxer> ret
<razzy> question: could i have local namespace with less symbols?
<Regenaxer> yes
<razzy> are test.l able to properly run in the middle of another program?
<Regenaxer> yes
<razzy> so if test.l fail after some exploration of namespace, you are interested in recreation.
<Regenaxer> recreation?
<razzy> file.l that recreate fails in test.l
<jcowan> "recreation" is annoyingly ambiguous in English: it's "re-creation" in this case, but nobody writes that
<Regenaxer> ah, right, recreation in the sense of taking a rest and recover forces
<Regenaxer> So razzy means re-create something
<razzy> ah yes. sorry.
<Regenaxer> Hi jcowan btw
* jcowan waves
<jcowan> There's a song "Morning Has Broken", the last line of which is "God's re-creation of a new day" with long e, but many people including Cat Stevens sing it as "recreation" with short e.
<Regenaxer> I remember that song :)
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<Regenaxer> cil_z, so I think using the week in the DB model is not a good idea. It is redundant
<Regenaxer> Better is to use year and month as units
<Regenaxer> For example, collecting a single month is a lot easier
<Regenaxer> (collect 'dat '+Cls (date Year Month 1) (date Year Month (ultimo Year Month)))
<Regenaxer> result is sorted too
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<beneroth> hi jcowan :)
* beneroth used to play that song on a keyboard (the instrument, not the computer keyboard)
<beneroth> good night folks
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