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<anddam> tankf33der: sure, sounds like a plan
<anddam> can you wait many months?
<tankf33der> sure
<tankf33der> no hurry
<tankf33der> tasks are easy, what you need
<anddam> for starters I need to install picolisp on my laptop as well
<anddam> and the github repo does not have tags, so I won't be using it
<beneroth> hi anddam, welcome :)
<beneroth> hi tankf33der o/
<anddam> does picolisp use VCS at all? I only see the latest and the rolling tarballs mentioned on download
<anddam> download page*
<tankf33der> anddam: wat? you dont need tags.
<tankf33der> use github repo :)
<tankf33der> anddam: do you need workflow?
<tankf33der> i can create for you my steps
<anddam> workflow for?
<beneroth> anddam, picolisp is mostly finished software. it is actively developed - but this is mainly porting to new CPU architectures/systems, and incremental small improvements. the core is in productive use and battle tested for decades.
<tankf33der> anddam: to use github and installation and daily-weekly updates
<beneroth> we are not a large community and we don't need to have a huge distributed dev team. patches/changes are discussed here in IRC or on the mailing list, then merged into the official distribution by Regenaxer
<beneroth> the github is a maintained live-mirror of the current code
<anddam> beneroth: that sounds like a nice feature
<beneroth> but we largely don't develop via github... we used google codes before, but as it shut down we went back to reliable self-hosting instead of getting dependent on third-party services
<anddam> tankf33der: no thanks, I already read (and followed) the instructions
<tankf33der> i defenitly should create it and post to ML. Lets make some noise.
<anddam> I am curious about the 57 programmer exercises, though
<beneroth> tankf33der, ?
<tankf33der> my install and update steps
<beneroth> anddam, some philosophy, if you like:
<beneroth> tankf33der, good idea!
<anddam> from INSTALL I get that 32b version should build straight out of the box (of the tarball) while 64b requires bootstrapping
<beneroth> take 64b
<beneroth> that is the current main edition, so to say
<anddam> yes,but it needs to be bootstrapped
<beneroth> install picolisp from distro before, or just have java installed
<beneroth> or download the appropriate .s files (see INSTALL)
<anddam> oh even the outdated debian package would have been enough
<beneroth> yes
<anddam> beneroth: that's what I am following, but I was curious about the third approach, turns out I did not have libc6 development package for i386
<Regenaxer> yeah, that's the tedios part, needing to install g++-multilib and libc6-dev-i386 just to build the first time
<Regenaxer> The best is to download the .s files
<beneroth> hi Regenaxer
<Regenaxer> Hi beneroth!
<tankf33der> i've created what i wanted.
<beneroth> tankf33der, thanks! should be in the wiki (or at least a link) I think!
<tankf33der> i will post to ML.
<Regenaxer> thanks tankf33der!
<Regenaxer> I give up lldb. People in #lldb say it cannot handle llvm-ir. Sounds like a joke!
<beneroth> wtf is lldb?
* beneroth googles...
<Regenaxer> llvm debugger :)
<beneroth> which cannot handle llvm parts?
<beneroth> nice
<Regenaxer> It is just a slightly improved gdb
<beneroth> sounds like not-invented-here-syndrome
<Regenaxer> yes, it cannot debug llvm's native code
<Regenaxer> poor
<beneroth> rofl
<Regenaxer> :)
<beneroth> ridi kulos!
<Regenaxer> yep
<Regenaxer> As far as I understand, they just improved the command set, made it more orthogonal, but what Ii want is to debug llvm code, the "IR"
<Regenaxer> intermediate representation
<Regenaxer> ie the virtual assembly code of the llvm
<beneroth> of course
<beneroth> gdb cannot do it? :P
<beneroth> omg
<Regenaxer> gdb can do it
<Regenaxer> ah
<Regenaxer> no, this is not helpful
<beneroth> it isn't >.<
<Regenaxer> Why have lldb then?
<beneroth> people are afraid of (pseudo-) asm, they want to debug in their lang?
<beneroth> and how can it even have the capability to decompile into those lang without the capability to inspect the llvm bytecode?
<Regenaxer> indeed
<Regenaxer> yes, thats also what gdb can do
<Regenaxer> the frontend lang, C or C++
<beneroth> so back to the good ol' tools :)
<Regenaxer> I *could* support PilSrc, but that's a lot of work
<Regenaxer> Need to insert debug info into the generated code
<beneroth> ouch
<Regenaxer> But I want to debug on the VM level here
<Regenaxer> Debugging on higher levels is not good in such a debugger anyway, it cannot handle Lisp level data
<beneroth> lol.. LLVM is not even an abbreviation anymore? They literally dropped naming the project "Low Level Virtual Machine" because todays mainstream people don't know the term "Virtual Machine" in compiler context anymore and mix it up with hardware/OS emulation??? xD
<Regenaxer> So it is easier to insert (print Var) into the code ;)
<Regenaxer> right!
<beneroth> good old stupid way. it ain't stupid if it works.
<Regenaxer> And "low level" is not true either
<beneroth> I thought so xD
<Regenaxer> it is quite high, with all those types and abstractions
<beneroth> so.. basically LLVM is the newest iteration of the java idea (one virtual machine to rule them all)
<Regenaxer> It is hard to program in PilSrc
<Regenaxer> harder than in PilAsm
<Regenaxer> Sorry, have a telcon now
<beneroth> :(
<Regenaxer> afp
<beneroth> np, cu
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<beneroth> [OT] I trust none of makes use of WebCrypto, but maybe you collect Mozilla failures:
<beneroth> (Crypto API within Browser for JS - encryption via JS is conceptual nonsense, but people love to implement things)
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