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<beneroth> Regenaxer, I have an idea what could be a possible cause of the ML email problems
<beneroth> software-lab.de has no SPF record. well possible that makes receiving mail servers putting the emails right into junk. (e.g. google does that, as I know from other mail stuff)
<Regenaxer> oh, I see. I don't know
<beneroth> SFP is a TXT entry in DSN specifying the servers (domain and/or IP's) which are legitimatized to send emails from that sender domain. like a whitelist, used by receiving email servers to find fake senders & spam
<beneroth> I can help you set this up, its easy.
<Regenaxer> But most of the time it works
<beneroth> yeah
<Regenaxer> and in that case even I did not receive
<Regenaxer> despite it was sent from here
<beneroth> might there be a incoming spam filter from your provider?
<Regenaxer> Probably that toi
<Regenaxer> too
<beneroth> might be well that spam filter is trashing mail because of lack of SPF + some pseudo-random content analysis bullshit score
<beneroth> many receiving email servers / spam filter middleware somewhere in between treat lack of SPF as spam-suspicious
<beneroth> Regenaxer, create a TXT for software-lab.de with the following content (without quotes): "v=spf1 a:software-lab.de -all"
<Regenaxer> I have no control of software-lab.de
<Regenaxer> it is not my mail server
<beneroth> if you have additional servers which send emails with sender @software-lab.de, they should be listed too, either with a:-prefix (a-entry, domain) or ip4:-prefix / ip6:-prefix
<beneroth> DNS
<beneroth> you should have control of the DNS server of software-lab.de
<beneroth> no change in mail server required
<beneroth> rzone.de ?
<beneroth> do you have an account there?
<Regenaxer> hmm, how can I control the DNS server of Strato?
<Regenaxer> no
<Regenaxer> only web space
<beneroth> you own the domain, don't you?
<Regenaxer> I would trust in strato here
<Regenaxer> yes
<beneroth> well the lack of SPF-entry is obvious and I know this topic
<beneroth> there must be a way for you to configure DNS. how would you add a subdomain?
<beneroth> some admin panel from strato you can access with your strato account
<beneroth> otherwise make a support request, that they create that TXT entry
<Regenaxer> I can't add a subdomain
<Regenaxer> only a hand full of e-mail addresses
<beneroth> wtf.. either this is a supercheap superestricted hosting or I don't know 0.o
<beneroth> make a support ticket
<beneroth> I'm sure they will create it
<beneroth> otherwise you should consider getting hosted by me.. WTF :P
<Regenaxer> I don't know, I think I have it since late 1990s
<beneroth> yeah and config never got updated since then :D
<beneroth> SPF didn't exist back than, afaik
<Regenaxer> no idea, I never cared ;)
<beneroth> and practically-demanded it only became a few years back
<beneroth> I have over 100 small hosting customers so I know ;-)
<Regenaxer> hmm, but Strato works on it permanently
<Regenaxer> I think it is well maintained
<beneroth> yes, but they will not change your config without you asking. it's extra work and not needed for their part of the operations.
<beneroth> I'm absolutely sure.
<Regenaxer> They change often, e.g. spam filters
<Regenaxer> I complained once
<Regenaxer> but they said they can't do anything, iy is hard-coded
<beneroth> yeah well you can configure this parts at least somewhat
<Regenaxer> I complained because my own mails were filterer if they contained evil addresses in log files
<Regenaxer> I check it
<beneroth> outoging spamfilter or ingoing spamfilter?
<Regenaxer> The fi
<Regenaxer> the filters are not under user control
<beneroth> hosters usually have both active, to protect themselves from incompetent customers, hacked email accounts and hacked customer websites
<Regenaxer> in the GUI
<beneroth> yes, that can well be
<beneroth> but I'm sure some strato people have a GUI
<beneroth> which might only limited configurations, depending on what blackbox product they just bought and use
<beneroth> anyways that is complete separate from the SPF DNS topic :)
<beneroth> write them a support ticket to add the SPF entry I mentioned please.
<beneroth> might not solve the email problem entirely, but should certainly improve it
<beneroth> ok? else lets have a jitsi chat about the topic later (rather tomorrow, I think).
<Regenaxer> I'll check Strato again
<beneroth> thx
<Regenaxer> No, thank you!
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<beneroth> the ML problems look like being caused by overly aggressive spamfiltering, not by transport problems. transport problems would result in a email back to you.
<beneroth> spamfilters don't do that, obviously, when they assume the sender to be a evil spammer. which they often assume without any logical basis, but based on some technical details like SPF and some random word analysis
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<Regenaxer> ok
<beneroth> maybe SPF is a setting you can enable in the email server settings (next to where you add a new email address). maybe not. but don't bother searching to long, if you don't find it, just write a support request.
<Regenaxer> yeah
<Regenaxer> Is it really Strato wo is responsible for the SPF record?
<Regenaxer> Cause I use exim to send the mail
<Regenaxer> Strato is used as a smarthost
<Regenaxer> So can it be the exim config?
<beneroth> SFP is DNS entry
<Regenaxer> ah, yes
<beneroth> done when operating a mailserver, otherwise not required
<beneroth> so responsible is the email server admin
<Regenaxer> And it should be visible in the mail header?
<beneroth> no
<beneroth> well possible that a spamfilter/incoming server puts a note into the mail header about SPF check passed or not
<Regenaxer> I mean, how you know that SPF is missing?
<Regenaxer> in the mailing list
<beneroth> receiving email server: sees which server sent it the email (the tcp connection)
<beneroth> also sees the FROM domain in the SMTP (not same as the FROM in the email header, though they should be the same normally)
<beneroth> receiving email server looks up SPF entry of from domain (so software-lab.de) and checks if the IP it received the email from (the SMTP server) is valid according to the whitelist in the domains SPF entry
<beneroth> ah
<beneroth> nslookup -q=txt software-lab.de
<beneroth> looking up TXT entry for your domain
<Regenaxer> ah
<beneroth> ooh
<beneroth> I just had a look at email header
<beneroth> email is sent by server 7fach.de, not software-lab.de
<beneroth> so you should put 7fach.de into the SPF
<beneroth> "v=spf1 a:software-lab.de a:7fach.de -all"
<Regenaxer> I see
<Regenaxer> Not Strato's fault
<Regenaxer> Would really be strange
<beneroth> = instruction for receiving email servers (or spamfilters) to check if they got the mail from IP of software-lab.de or 7fach.de otherwise handle it as fake sender/spam
<Regenaxer> For 7fach.de I have control
<beneroth> yes, but sender domain is software-lab.de
<beneroth> so DNS entry on software-lab.de it must be
<Regenaxer> yeah
<beneroth> not stratos responsibility
<Regenaxer> smarthost
<Regenaxer> 7fach logs into Strato to send
<Regenaxer> DNS entry on software-lab.de *is* Strato
<Regenaxer> So Strato's fault?
<Regenaxer> (confusing)
<Regenaxer> So it is not "v=spf1 a:software-lab.de a:7fach.de -all"
<Regenaxer> but "v=spf1 a:7fach.de -all"
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<beneroth> Regenaxer, sorry was busy
<Regenaxer> No problem
<Regenaxer> Me too
<beneroth> you never send email from softwware-lab.de server ?
<beneroth> including admin monitoring mails to yourself?
<Regenaxer> Not directly
<Regenaxer> Sending via mutt or exim
<beneroth> yeah but via which "physical" smtp-server
<Regenaxer> Using software-lab smtp server
<beneroth> yep that one
<Regenaxer> T
<Regenaxer> smtp.strato.de port 465
<beneroth> "v=spf1 a:7fach.de -all" allows ONLY the server (IP) 7fach.de to send emails with sender domain @software-lab.de
<beneroth> aah
<beneroth> ok
<beneroth> ah moment
<Regenaxer> ok
<Regenaxer> hmm, I logged in earlier today
<Regenaxer> looke different
<Regenaxer> I do it again
<Regenaxer> moment
<Regenaxer> The GUI is completely different
<Regenaxer> let me search
<Regenaxer> getting close ;)
<beneroth> I believe the correct DNS entry (in zone of software-lab.de) should be: "v=spf1 include:_spf.strato.com a:7fach.de -all"
<beneroth> => allow emails be sent with sender ("Absender") @software-lab.de when the SMTP server either belongs to strato or if its 7fach.de
<Regenaxer> There are 4 options
<Regenaxer> Checkboxes
<Regenaxer> Strato SPF-Regel
<Regenaxer> hmm
<beneroth> I believe you should choose "benutzerdefiniert" and enter the string above
<Regenaxer> Currently "Keine Regel"
<beneroth> yes
<Regenaxer> Then there is "Standard"
<beneroth> => no TXT SPF entry (and no other TXT entry either)
<beneroth> standard will be strato mailserver, which will be fine except for the mails sent directly from 7fach.de
<Regenaxer> "Fail - Mailserver laut Eintrag der Domain / Subdomain"
<beneroth> according to ML mail header 7fach.de acts as SMTP server directly, not using strato as smarthost
<Regenaxer> then Softfail
<beneroth> softfail/fail -> "~all" or "-all" at the end of the SPF rule
<Regenaxer> So basically fail or softfail
<Regenaxer> Standard is best?
<beneroth> "-" = treat email (which didn't pass previous checks) as spam
<beneroth> "~" = its probably spam but we're not sure about our own configs
<beneroth> I see no value in softfail
<beneroth> spamfilters will use it for scoring
<Regenaxer> I think I can just click one Check
<beneroth> better to get the configuration right and than use hardfail
<Regenaxer> no further text option
<beneroth> kein benutzerdefiniert?
<beneroth> I have another meeting now. we can check together later via jitsi screensharing, ok?
<Regenaxer> Next is CNAME incl. DKIM
<Regenaxer> sure, thanks!
<Regenaxer> I click Standard now
<Regenaxer> They write it may take 24 h anyway
<beneroth> normal for DNS changes => caching all over the world
<beneroth> that is not critical
<Regenaxer> yeah
<beneroth> but wrong values can give a lot of problems :))
<Regenaxer> I mean for testing
<Regenaxer> yeah
<beneroth> T
<Regenaxer> though standard sounds good
<beneroth> standard will most likely deny 7fach.de
<beneroth> standard = strato only
<Regenaxer> But 7fach connects only
<Regenaxer> or, my mobile
<Regenaxer> from a totally unknown ip
<Regenaxer> So 7fach.de is not relevant I think
<beneroth> don't change anything yet, lets discuss together in jitsi.
<beneroth> later, eta 15min
<Regenaxer> 7fach is just a client, no?
<beneroth> no
<beneroth> not according to mail headers
<Regenaxer> ok, good
<beneroth> that is the reason why I believe standard is not correct in this case
<beneroth> maybe I misread, will check again
<beneroth> bbl
<Regenaxer> cu!
<beneroth> re
<beneroth> I see now the 7fach mails also go via strato
<Regenaxer> yes
<beneroth> so enabling "standard" setting should be perfect
<Regenaxer> exim -> smarthost
<Regenaxer> ah, good
<beneroth> T
<beneroth> I misread header previously
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