cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/pypy/ ) | use cffi for calling C | "the modern world where network packets and compiler optimizations are effectively hostile"
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<cfbolz> mattip: I am not 100% whether it's related, but we already have a special case for __add__ vs __radd__ (etc) in descroperation.py
<cfbolz> look at _make_binop_impl
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<kaizoku> arigato, i fixed that issue, now i'm running into some issues with macros, specifically LIST_HEAD
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<ionelmc> the ubuntu ppa don't have pypy3?
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<fijal> have you been to any of those?
<cfbolz> yes
<cfbolz> armin has too
<fijal> ah ok :)
<fijal> armin says "long ago"
<cfbolz> two three years
<fijal> how was it?
<antocuni> note that the url of the uni is "cuni.cz" :)
<cfbolz> fijal: ok, probably one of the more relevant venues for us
<fijal> ok
<cfbolz> I found a simple way to not have to save one dict lookup per resumed frame in the blackhole resuming process
<cfbolz> There's a 'not' too much in that sentence
<fijal> I still don't get it, I presume you can save one dict lookup
<cfbolz> Per resumed frame rpython frame. That's a lot
<fijal> ok
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<cfbolz> fijal: in fact, they are the only dict lookups left in the blackhole :-)
* fijal is watching armin learning ruby
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<cfbolz> fijal: eh, why?
<fijal> cfbolz: we're writing an extension to sketchup, which uses ruby
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<cfbolz> righ
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<ionelmc> can anyone recommend a sysv ipc library that works with pypy?
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<fijal> ionelmc: I don't even know what a sysv IPC is, but I suppose you should try any lib and see if it works
<fijal> http://packages.pypy.org/ will give you an answer if it installs
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<dw> ionelmc: why are you considering those interfaces at all?
<dw> ionelmc: they are beyond ancient :)
<dw> and in most cases fundamentally lacking in one critical feature or another (e.g. timeouts)
<bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/4868 [ronan: force build, multiphase]
<bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/6177 [ronan: force build, multiphase]
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<bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/4868 [ronan: force build, multiphase]
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<bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/6177 [ronan: force build, multiphase]
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<ionelmc> dw: well ... considering the low size limits on either posix or sysv queues i might as well just use a plain fifo ...
<ionelmc> posix queues have timeouts tho
<ionelmc> but don't work on osx
<ionelmc> err ... osx don't support em that is
<dw> sysv ipc is nice because it's built in, but if that's the last criteria you have left going that's fine, but preferably there are 100 more that couldn't be met first hehe
<dw> also the bizarro 'key' namespace and its weird permissions that nothing else uses
<dw> unix is weird
<ionelmc> well this is the nail in the coffin: "In Linux versions before 2.6.11, the capacity of a pipe was the same as the system page size (e.g., 4096 bytes on i386). Since Linux 2.6.11, the pipe capacity is 65536 bytes. "
<ionelmc> that's way more than what a queue gets me
<ionelmc> am i missing something?
<runciter> queues work in terms of messages, whereas pipes are streams
<runciter> also posix guarantees that PIPE_BUF is no less than 4096
<runciter> and it can be changed on linux
<ionelmc> runciter: so then what's the point of using queues if fifos already have a buffer?
<runciter> ionelmc: queues work in terms of messages, whereas pipes are streams
<runciter> anyway, i've never found a use for an in-kernel queue. unix domain sockets are plenty fast and with SOCK_DGRAM are reliable, order, and message-based
<ionelmc> runciter: so basically "you don't have to parse out message delimiters" is all to it?
<runciter> ordered*
<runciter> ionelmc: you either get a message you don't
<runciter> you don't get part of a message
<ionelmc> actually ... you can't do fanout with a fifo right?
<ionelmc> you can have multiple receivers on a queue as i understood it
<ionelmc> actually maybe it's not fanout
<runciter> posix message queues do not support multiple receivers
<runciter> if you want each one to receive the same message, at least
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<ionelmc> runciter: so then fifo pipe or domain socket?
<ionelmc> there are so many choices :|
<runciter> ionelmc: UDS over a fifo, always
<runciter> that is, prefer UDS over FIFOs
<ionelmc> runciter: why?
<runciter> ionelmc: multiple processes can connect to a UDS path
<ionelmc> ok ... actually i didn't say anything about my usecase, lol
<runciter> their ancillary data supports useful behaviors like credentials checking and file descriptor passing
<runciter> you can get a message-oriented UDS, but you can't get a message-oriented named pipe
<ionelmc> so i have this tool: https://github.com/ionelmc/python-hunter and i want to implement strace-like functionality.
<ionelmc> so i need a 1 to 1 communication stream with some buffering if the reading end is too slow
<ionelmc> for now lets say i only want to send text data
<runciter> open a TCP socket on the loopback
<runciter> it's the most portable way and it'll be fast enough
<ionelmc> that dont get me anything over a uds (plus i can control access on uds)
<runciter> it will work on windows
<ionelmc> i don't think i can support windows at all :|
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<ionelmc> activation would be a problem there
<runciter> hm, this doesn't seem related to pypy
<ionelmc> i know but people here are so knowledgeable :D
<ionelmc> runciter: if you want to give an opinion we can talk elsewhere
<runciter> maybe #python?
<runciter> does your project have its own irc channel?
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<ionelmc> runciter: i can make one i guess, #hunter ?
<runciter> sure!
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<dw> ionelmc: sysv ipc permits multiple producers and consumers, it's not really comparable to sockets
<dw> (but i still wouldn't use it!)
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