arigato changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end ) | use cffi for calling C | mac OS and Fedora are not Windows
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<stillinbeta> mattip: I switched to a nightly (Python 3.5.3 (49aade4a2c18, Jan 22 2019, 02:00:13) [PyPy 6.1.0-alpha0) but no dice, same error
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<mattip> stillinbeta: it seems to be an interaction with ctypes. I commented on the py-sdl2 issue tracker
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<oberstet> a bit of marketing rgd pypy on arm64;) (hope this is ok to post here - sorry if not!) https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6493771630001553408
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<fijal> ronan, mattip: are you going to pycon?
<fijal> antocuni: ?
<zaytsev> hmmm the builds still don't run through, i'm very disappointed. it can find the damn tools when i run it under pypy on command line though. maybe i should have tried also cpython, and/or rebooted the machine
<zaytsev> windows is full of strange unpleasant dark vodoo magick
<mattip> zaytsev: :(
<mattip> fijal: pycon USA? not planning at this stage
<zaytsev> maybe registry changes are not applied for running service or something like that. the env vars were affected
<mattip> would be nice to get someone into the language summit if possible
<mattip> it is May 1 in Cleveland
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<fijal> Cleveland is quite a bit out of the way for a lot of people....
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<cfbolz> oberstet: cool, no, that's great
<cfbolz> fijal: didn't you plan to do a announcement blog post about arm64?
<fijal> cfbolz: we have nothing more to say than that's on that Nov one
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<cfbolz> fijal: ah, seems I forgot about this one, sorry
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<ebarrett> hi!
<ebarrett> i've been greeping around in the pypy sources to see if you guys do anything if a trace is interrupted by a signal
<ebarrett> *grepping
<ebarrett> in theory, the signal handler could land you back in python code, right?
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<fijal> ebarrett: the signal handler itself is just setting flags
<fijal> in python you have to wait to an obvious point before you actually deal with it
<ebarrett> so you regiter a catch all handler and pass it up to the user later?
<ebarrett> (as a flag)
<fijal> "catch all"?
<fijal> yeah I think so
<ebarrett> right
<ebarrett> so it's possible for a mad user to use the FFI to set their own handler and call back into python and re-enter the trace recording code?
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<cfbolz> ebarrett: no
<cfbolz> ebarrett: the "own handler" wouldn't be a signal handler in the C sense
<cfbolz> it would also only be called at a safe spot later
<cfbolz> ah, wait
<cfbolz> I see
<cfbolz> with FFI
<ebarrett> yeah
<ebarrett> nasty, huh?
<cfbolz> that's probably a good way to generate crashes
<cfbolz> ebarrett: but you aren't allowed to do arbitrary things in signal handlers in C, are you?
<ebarrett> you shouldn't do anything substatial, no
<ebarrett> but, you can, if you are sick
<Alex_Gaynor> there's a pretty restricted set of functions that are async signal safe, not even malloc in most libc
<ebarrett> yeah, there's a list in the manpages for the signal funcs
<ebarrett> calling back to Python seems like an awful idea
<cfbolz> yes, will immediately use forbidden stuff
<cfbolz> so in other words, you get what you deserve :-P
<Alex_Gaynor> You definitely can't call Python from an async-signal-safe context. The _best case scenario_ for doing that would be summoning demons from the POSIX netherworld.
<ebarrett> I tend to agree :)
<kenaan> mattip unicode-utf8-py3 a7867a23009b /pypy/objspace/std/: finish f287dec62c4e for swapcase, capitalize
<kenaan> mattip unicode-utf8-py3 ee5c96ad9ed6 /pypy/: test, refactor logic around invalid continuation byte
<kenaan> mattip unicode-utf8-py3 d7b0f65f80a2 /pypy/objspace/std/: match startswith, endswith cpython behaviour for needle='',start>0,end==0
<kenaan> mattip unicode-utf8-py3 8e00f53ea94c /pypy/module/_io/: test, fix for pickling StringIO with pos != 0
<kenaan> mattip unicode-utf8 f68e17e4136e /: merge default into unicode-utf8
<kenaan> mattip unicode-utf8-py3 5a0b1049fa98 /: merge py3.5 into unicode-utf8-py3
<mattip> it seems the UnicodeDictStrategy has diverged between unicode-utf8 and unicode-utf8-py3
<mattip> the merge of cfbolz 's last changes is non-trivial
<bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5952 [mattip: force build, unicode-utf8]
<bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/7226 [mattip: force build, unicode-utf8]
<antocuni> mattip: are you aware that the latest numpy 1.16.0 seems to be broken on pypy 6.0?
<antocuni> I tried with a nightly and it seems to work, so I assume that it has been fixed inside pypy at some point?
<mattip> right, it is "known" - as in there are multiple issues on both the NumPy and PyPy issue tracker
<mattip> we should release 7.0 already
<antocuni> yes, it sounds like a good idea
<mattip> I was hoping to get unicode-utf8 in, it gives a nice speed bump
<antocuni> how long do you estimate it would take to merge it?
<mattip> we should discuss it at the sprint, it is a pretty big change and needs some review
<antocuni> right, it makes sense
<mattip> OTOH, we could release it as a 7.1 since the changes should only be internal
<antocuni> what about releasing 6.1 now which fixes numpy, and leave 7.0 for utf8 which seems like a big change to me?
<antocuni> or 7.0 and 7.1 as you propose
<antocuni> but I think that having a broken numpy is very bad :(
<mattip> it comes down to priorities: keep fixing the last little niggles so we can merge unicode-utf8, or release
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<mattip> antocuni: it just means people need to download a buldbot nightly instead of a bitbucket release
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<mattip> it's not like we do special vetting on the commit we choose to release
<antocuni> yeah I know, but it's suboptimal for various reasons; in particular, I cannot build wheels for non-released pypys
<mattip> ahh
<antocuni> so if you integrate it in a broader build process, it makes everything much slower
<antocuni> also, from a marketing point of view, telling people "this bug has been fixed in pypy 6.1" sounds better than "download a nightly build from an obscure location" :)
<antocuni> I am willing to help with the release if you want; I don't really know what steps are involved though as I didn't do it for ages now
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<mattip> we would have to go without ARM, the builders have been down since Dec
<antocuni> yes, I read the mail :(
<mattip> since I tend to forget, I try to keep that up-to-date
<mattip> the hardest thing is the release notes, I try to go through the commits since the last release and summarize
<mattip> using the whatsnew as a base
<mattip> I think it should be 7.0 since we changed cpyext headers
<mattip> and not 6.1
<antocuni> in theory the whatsnew.rst is there precisely to avoid to have to go through all the commits manually
<mattip> I have a script to do the download-from-buildbot, repackage, generate sha256, upload-to-bitbucket, so that part is simple
<mattip> in theory
<mattip> many meaningful commits are not on branches
<antocuni> about buildbots: I wonder whether we should move to github/travis at some point; it seems we are not very good at maintaining our building infrastructure
<mattip> at numpy we are using azure, travis, and shippable (for ARM64)
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<mattip> azure is pretty good, they have mac, linux, windows
<antocuni> is it for free?
<mattip> but only integrate with github
<mattip> yes, up to 10 jobs
<mattip> let me check the time limit
<mattip> they claim "unlimited minutes for public repositories"
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* mattip off, bbl
<antocuni> sounds good; another advantage of doing it this way is that if we set up things correctly, we automatically run all the tests when we push, even on branches
<mattip> antocuni: it would be great if you could start the process toward 7.0
<antocuni> instead of having to manually trigger the builds and check things before merging
<antocuni> mattip: I'll try, but please have a look at what I'll do :)
<mattip> thanks
<cfbolz> mattip: I can do the merge to unicode-utf8-py3 if you want
<mattip> another benefit of you doing it is improvements to the process documentation
<mattip> cfbolz: yes please
<antocuni> ah, I suppose I need to make a branch for both pypy2 and pypy3?
<cfbolz> ok. should get to it tomorrow morning
<mattip> right, like release-pypy2.7-v7.x, release-pypy3.5-v7.x, release-pypy3.6-v7.x
<mattip> (we should do an alpha 3.6)
<cfbolz> imo that's putting the hurdle for the release too high
* mattip gone
<cfbolz> or should we just say "whatever works works" for 3.6?
<antocuni> my idea for this release was "let's do something quick so that we can fix numpy"
<cfbolz> right
<cfbolz> +1
<antocuni> so I am more of the idea of not doing an alpha 3.6, which probably takes time
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<bbot2> Success: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/7226 [mattip: force build, unicode-utf8]
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<bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5952 [mattip: force build, unicode-utf8]
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<bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5953 [mattip: force build, unicode-utf8-py3]
<bbot2> Started: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/7227 [mattip: force build, unicode-utf8-py3]
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<kenaan> mattip unicode-utf8 9853efedd970 /pypy/module/_io/: backport relevant parts of 8e00f53ea94c
<mattip> that should fix the only non-pypyjit.test_pypy_c failure in unicode-utf8 for pypy2
<mattip> releasing an alpha-3.6 won't take that much time since we don't care about test failures
<mattip> it is just more buildbot, repackaging, uploading,
<mattip> a few more lines in pypy.org/downloads
<mattip> the real problem will be dealing with issues after the release. I am +1 on doing an alpha 3.6
<mattip> 3.5 is really old
<ronan> we should probably fix the sys.modules issue before the release
<ronan> I bet that mess will come back to bite us otherwise
<mattip> ronan: which issue? I remember you pointing out bad __file__ paths?
<ronan> yes
<ronan> well, it's not just that, some modules (e.g. collections) seem to get frozen into the executable and appear in sys.modules already at startup
<ronan> yes
<ronan> and since the module is already there, you can't actually import it from your system's lib-python, you always get the frozen version
<ronan> it's not like that in pypy3-6.0, I'm not sure what changed
<mattip> maybe running under gdb, and see who calls pypy_g_Module_setmodule at startup?
<ronan> I don't think it's called
<ronan> it looks like everything is prebuilt
<ronan> OTOH, 6.0 imports a lot of crap at startup, so maybe this is better in a way
<mattip> would be nice to at least understand it, and override the __path__ names since they are the buildbot ones
<ronan> I think it's because collections is imported during translation
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<mattip> I see one import in module/cpyext/api.py
<mattip> but that should not matter
<mattip> where else?
<bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/5953 [mattip: force build, unicode-utf8-py3]
<mattip> indeed, collections imports all the others: operator, keyword, heapq, reprlib, ...
<mattip> sys.modules['collections'].__path__ is the one in the buildbot's lib-python/3/collections
<mattip> maybe some app-level code
* ronan is trying to bisect
<mattip> +1
<ronan> OK, it's between 8a3e586cc749 and 0db52cceae06
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<ronan> enabling _cppyy seems to be the cause
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<ronan> pypy/module/_cppyy/pythonify.py looks suspicious
<ronan> and specifically the 'import types' line
<ronan> the other question is why do we even allow imports from lib-python in applevel defs?
<mattip> it should be easy to replace the types.MethodType by copying the code out of types.py
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<bbot2> Failure: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/7227 [mattip: force build, unicode-utf8-py3]
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<ronan> hmm, importlib gets installed during translation, I don't think that's correct
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<njs> mattip: IIRC azure pipelines has a 6 hour limit on individual jobs (vs IIRC 1 hour for travis)
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<mattip> ronan: this solved the test, and I dont see importlib in sys after translation
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<mattip> njs: thanks. I didn't see that limit
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<ronan> mattip: good, I guess we should just commit that
<ronan> I'll try to find out how to prevent it from happening again though
<mattip> nice detective work
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<ronan> there's also a few more related oddities we should fix, like modules without __loader__
<mattip> why didn;t it happen on default as well?
<ronan> default doesn't have importlib
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<mattip> so importlib caused types to be frozen into translation?
<ronan> no, but it froze the paths into the frozen module
<ronan> it happens on default as well, but it just shows <module 'types' from ?>
<ronan> (also types doesn't import the whole world in py2)
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<mattip> maybe we should do a linux-x86-64 only 7.0 Windows, ARM, linux 32 bit all have many failing tests
<mattip> gnite
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